Do good players play with full Ivory ferrules?
- Thread starter mel_smOg
- Start date
I'm not sure, it would seem that it effects the flex of the cue. The only important thing I know it I won't play with an ivory jointed cue ever again......that's about as much as I need to know.'My Game is the Teacher'
The Great Awakening
Ivory ferrules play different...they just do......the greatest named cue-makers used them all the time.This wasn't just by accident
or some coincidence. A good pool player will play well with any ferrule. But when it comes to playability or feel, ivory just seems
to perform uniquely different from all other materials. Closest substitute was the original GE Micarat ferrules.
In the blind survey, people will suppose and guess wrong all the time. And there are how many different types of joints......wood,
steel (flat & piloted), brass, phenolic, micarta, buffalo horn, ivory (flat, piloted, collar)...there may be more. So choosing and
identifying different cue joints blind-fold testing of a large family of cues is tough, especially with physical specification differences.
But you can definitely feel and can tell the difference between a steel piloted 5/16x14 steel or a flat faced steel version cue joint and
a flat faced big pin ivory joint. Take two cues with identical specs and of course the same cue-maker and let one cue joint be piloted
steel and the other flat faced ivory. Remember it has to be the same cue-maker.....and you will feel the difference.....I'm not saying
you'll prefer the difference but there is a different feel to the hit.
Comparing cues with different joints from different cue-makers blind folded, well, there's way too many variables in the cue-maker's
approach to building the cue, not the least of which is the type of tip on the shaft, and also its taper length, ferrule material, weight
bolt, balance point, and most importantly, shaft wood & weight. How many of those tested cues had shafts that were heavier than
3.8 or 4.0 ozs versus cue shafts weighing as much as 1/2 ounce lighter.....big difference in feel with heavier cue shafts.
I confess that I'm a fan of ivory in pool cues but it's because I'm an ardent aficionado of pool cues. The majority of great cues had ivory
joints and ferrules......look at the photos of SBE.....browse the 3 editions of the Blue Book of Cues. Ivory does not make you a better
player....a $7,000 Joel Hercek cue won't make you a better player. The history of pool cues attests to this fact but at the same time,
sadly, ivory's popularity is the reason for illegal poaching of elephants to the point the species is severely endangered. I'm also not
worried in the slightest about my cues ever being confiscated or ever losing potential value due to the newly promulgated for discussion
ivory restrictions. My two cues underway will have ivory ferrules, joints & inlays; and IMO.....nothing looks better in a fancy cue design.
Matt B.
or some coincidence. A good pool player will play well with any ferrule. But when it comes to playability or feel, ivory just seems
to perform uniquely different from all other materials. Closest substitute was the original GE Micarat ferrules.
In the blind survey, people will suppose and guess wrong all the time. And there are how many different types of joints......wood,
steel (flat & piloted), brass, phenolic, micarta, buffalo horn, ivory (flat, piloted, collar)...there may be more. So choosing and
identifying different cue joints blind-fold testing of a large family of cues is tough, especially with physical specification differences.
But you can definitely feel and can tell the difference between a steel piloted 5/16x14 steel or a flat faced steel version cue joint and
a flat faced big pin ivory joint. Take two cues with identical specs and of course the same cue-maker and let one cue joint be piloted
steel and the other flat faced ivory. Remember it has to be the same cue-maker.....and you will feel the difference.....I'm not saying
you'll prefer the difference but there is a different feel to the hit.
Comparing cues with different joints from different cue-makers blind folded, well, there's way too many variables in the cue-maker's
approach to building the cue, not the least of which is the type of tip on the shaft, and also its taper length, ferrule material, weight
bolt, balance point, and most importantly, shaft wood & weight. How many of those tested cues had shafts that were heavier than
3.8 or 4.0 ozs versus cue shafts weighing as much as 1/2 ounce lighter.....big difference in feel with heavier cue shafts.
I confess that I'm a fan of ivory in pool cues but it's because I'm an ardent aficionado of pool cues. The majority of great cues had ivory
joints and ferrules......look at the photos of SBE.....browse the 3 editions of the Blue Book of Cues. Ivory does not make you a better
player....a $7,000 Joel Hercek cue won't make you a better player. The history of pool cues attests to this fact but at the same time,
sadly, ivory's popularity is the reason for illegal poaching of elephants to the point the species is severely endangered. I'm also not
worried in the slightest about my cues ever being confiscated or ever losing potential value due to the newly promulgated for discussion
ivory restrictions. My two cues underway will have ivory ferrules, joints & inlays; and IMO.....nothing looks better in a fancy cue design.
Matt B.
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I designed a way for average players to enjoy what we've all known
Oh, Man, my secret's getting out. I used the Touch of Inside to win over a million dollars with people saying "I know he'd doing something different when addressing the cue ball, but we don't know what..." - The "secret" was I was cueing the cue ball slightly inside on ALL my shots and even coming from this position when applying "outside english".
TOI is basically a better "center ball," because you can "FEEL" the inside of the cue ball connect to the object ball, creating the angle.....after all it's the inside of the cue ball that MUST hit the object ball to create any degree of "cut" (I don't use TOI on straight in shots).
The fact is the champion players ALL know how to play deflection to increase margin of error on any particular "inside" shot.....I designed a way for average players to enjoy what we've all known for many years. 'The TOI is the Teacher'
Oh, Man, my secret's getting out.
I used the Touch of Inside to win over a million dollars with people saying "I know he'd doing something different when addressing the cue ball, but we don't know what..." - The "secret" was I was cueing the cue ball slightly inside on ALL my shots and even coming from this position when applying "outside english".TOI is basically a better "center ball," because you can "FEEL" the inside of the cue ball connect to the object ball, creating the angle.....after all it's the inside of the cue ball that MUST hit the object ball to create any degree of "cut" (I don't use TOI on straight in shots).
The fact is the champion players ALL know how to play deflection to increase margin of error on any particular "inside" shot.....I designed a way for average players to enjoy what we've all known for many years. 'The TOI is the Teacher'
Clearly you have not tried good quality custom butt with LD shaft (which has to be propert tapered, not standard horrible taper with now feel)
Try it and you will never go back to your predator, it is fire wood
I can play well with both. ivory ,micarta,plastic
I think the ld shafts are break shafts-pay all that money- for a Chinese special. Ive had to repair the cheap preds for yrs. I love the sound of ivory. How many tournaments were won on ivory ferrules -hundreds.(Joss cues,jw's cues gina. Searing and others put ivory ferrules on pred. Southwest micarta is great hitting. I think the ivory ferrules are to be threaded on too. capped. I also use the stiffer underwater-wood shafts. I have 2 from sheldon Lebow,that are unbelievable with the old morri tips too. I have now got 20 being turned now. Think extra -length too mark. I use walrus tusk ferrules too. and I was at the 1997 trade show where Danny Janes said if there wasn't something to the shafts he would not be part of them. How many titles has shane won on the old Joss from danny,or his mothers r-4schon.
I think the ld shafts are break shafts-pay all that money- for a Chinese special. Ive had to repair the cheap preds for yrs. I love the sound of ivory. How many tournaments were won on ivory ferrules -hundreds.(Joss cues,jw's cues gina. Searing and others put ivory ferrules on pred. Southwest micarta is great hitting. I think the ivory ferrules are to be threaded on too. capped. I also use the stiffer underwater-wood shafts. I have 2 from sheldon Lebow,that are unbelievable with the old morri tips too. I have now got 20 being turned now. Think extra -length too mark. I use walrus tusk ferrules too. and I was at the 1997 trade show where Danny Janes said if there wasn't something to the shafts he would not be part of them. How many titles has shane won on the old Joss from danny,or his mothers r-4schon.
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PoolHallPaul
Member
Thanks for posting that link I never had seen it. That is good.here's the video
My friend, let me assure you Mosconi or any of the other past pool greats did have options on shaft diameters and ferrule types- but ALL technology aside- both past and present - a great pool stroke is a great pool stroke, it has nothing to do with "genius".
If you are great with modern pool equipment, you could also be great with older standard equipment. Do you think Shane Van Boning could not pick up a Szamboti cue or a nice Palmer cue or an older Gina cue and NOT be a great player. All greats adapt to their equipment.
Sports equipment technology only makes the game easier if you know what you are doing in the first place - the person has to supply the timing, the rhythm, the stroke, the aim, and the cue delivery - the cue does none of that for you, and, to compare other sports technologies, just pick up an Arnold Palmer Golden Standard golf club from the 1970s - picture a guy hitting a golf ball squarely with that club!
Great pool players can play great with ANY decent cue- ivory, plastic, fiber, micarta, etc. they would play great with any ferrule material. Marketing dictates what sponsored players use as equipment and they just adapt to what they are paid to use.
Back in the day all the best players had ivory ferules. It kind of fell out of grace as more alternative materials were developed. I doubt Willie would have settled for anything less. George and Gus sure put a lot of them on their shafts. Some people claim those cues play pretty good I've heard. A really good shooter can shoot with most anything including as I have seen a broom handle. But given a choice most people will take or want the thing they feel most comfortable with. Could you beat Willie Mosconi if he used a high deflection maple shaft and a high deflection ivory ferule and a single layered old fashioned tip and you got to pick any cue you chose? if you are thinking about your equipment as you are shooting, you are not going to play well until you learn to "just play" All top players can play with whatever is available.
Geosnookery
Well-known member
All 4 remaining players in the Snookers Masters will be using a brass ferrule. On Sunday, one will walk away with the equivalent of 300 thousand dollars. Runner up a third of that.
None of the 132 rankling tour players use an ivory ferrule. Some Snooker pros once used ivory instead of brass but I haven’t known any to use ivory for half a century.
The advice of almost every top pro...stick with your cue. Former World Champion Shaun Murphy: I minute clip.
None of the 132 rankling tour players use an ivory ferrule. Some Snooker pros once used ivory instead of brass but I haven’t known any to use ivory for half a century.
The advice of almost every top pro...stick with your cue. Former World Champion Shaun Murphy: I minute clip.
True, However,The tips are so tiny on snooker cues that by the time you have a tenon large enough not to snap off, there isn't much room to add a ferule. Anything you put on will have a very thin wall. Ivory split too easily. Brass was a very good alternative choice. In such a small amount it does not weigh much at all, they are very thin and very short and now, very durable. Heck on those shafts a tiny bit of weight may be a blessing.
It should be a lesson to all us cue nuts that the highest level of cue sport is played daily with VERY plain-n-simple tools. Some of these snooker guys have used the same cue their entire career. Hell, they put their tips on themselves with glue and a freakin' pocket knife. It cracks me up on league night to see all the players with $1000+ set-ups that can't run four balls if their life was on the line. It AIN'T the cue people.
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Interesting old thread here. Of cues I've owned, the highest deflecting had an Ivorine 4 ferrule. Have owned ivory and don't think they deflect much more than other 1 inch ferrules (assuming the shaft isn't bored out). I've found it's more about ferrule length in cues I've used.
Its actually the weight. The lighter the better. https://www.dzcues.com/ferrules_4.html Iv.4 is relatively heavy and will deflect more than just about anything else.
I had seen that DZ study too and validated my experience with Ivorine 4. It also attracted chalk easily, so I wasn't a fan of that material.
Thanks for posting that link I never had seen it. That is good.
6 yr old thread revived, looked for a new member, and there it is LOL never fails.
To put in my 2 cents to 6 years ago, I played with one ivory ferrule and joint cue, did not like it much at all. It's the Arthur cue in my avatar pic. The guy that sold it to me felt the same way, it felt a bit dead and did not move the cueball as easily as other cues. Probably good for straight pool but not much else.