do I need a measles ball, and do I need a high-end instructor?

BTW have you personally seen the DVD's I pointed people too? A boat load of info for the price of a Dinner for Two.....

have you ever hired a professional coach?? ....I didn't think so

there is a world of difference between general guidelines on stroke and stance vs a stroke and stance customized to you specifically..you may have flaws that the DVD talking head will never see and if he never sees them how can he correct them?

plenty of information can be gleaned from DVD's.. but some things have to be done in person to be done correctly..
 
1) I read somewhere that the measles ball was created so the "audience" could see the CB spin? Anyway, should I get a measles ball?, will it help me see my spin and/or are there other advantages? Cant I already "see" my spin just by looking at how the CB reacts?

2) I really want to get some first-time lessons (erratic C player in SoCAL). I would love to use some of the fine instructors on this forum, but a price of (say) $300 is a little steep for me, and my wife would really frown. Should I try to find some kind of small group lesson for about $100? (my preferred budget) Should I bite the bullet and spend $300? At my level what will the difference be? Can I start with a "lessor" instructor and move up to the $300 instructor later? I should say due to my budget I'm really leaning toward the "lessor" instructor, just want to confirm that would not be a waste of time?
Thanks in advance for all the help that is available on this forum!!

I don't believe you "need" to get a measles ball.

How are you defining a "lessor" instructor?

Prices aren't always an indication of how good the quality of instruction is.
Some people teach for a living, others teach for the love of the game.

You can get very good instruction from both types.

I try to work with students to find a rate they are comfortable with. I have been blessed with a great day job and I teach for the love of the game.
 
1) I read somewhere that the measles ball was created so the "audience" could see the CB spin? ...
This part is true, but not for pool. Aramith developed the spotted cue balls for carom billiards so the audience could see what was happening. It took them several years to perfect the technique and the balls were hard to get until about 2001. In a carom set the two cue balls are white and yellow with red spots for both.

Shortly after 2001, they were introduced to pool. I think there are also spotted cue balls available for snooker.
 
Read Mosconi's book, Willie's Game. Willie was for the most part self taught by watching great player. Willie gave Pool a total comittment of his time, to become great!
 
To they guy who's hawking the DVD's --- I can't imagine the authors would appreciate your using those carnival barker tactics to sell their DVDs.

That's a low-life way to sell anything, and it doesn't speak for the DVDs. All is shows is your lack of class.
 
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To they guy who's hawking the DVD's --- I can't imagine the authors would appreciate your using those carnival barker tactics to sell their DVDs.

That's a low-life way to sell anything, and it doesn't speak for the DVDs. All is shows is your lack of class.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3594977&postcount=18
my post above #18 i thought was a balanced post regarding dvds and lessons.
not sure if you are referring to me since you didnt mention anyone by name
 
Sorry --- didn't mean you at all. I was referring to the rocket scientist who wrote this: "Most people learning curve goes south after 20 minutes, so an hour lesson is 40 minutes of wasted time IMHO"

ok
:thumbup:
 
I am fortunate to live in an area (Atlanta, GA) where I have access to some really big names in pool. I got to talk to Johnny Archer. At one point I think it's fair to say he was one of the best nine ball player on the planet. After talking to him a bit I decided not to take lessons from him, and talked to Shawn Putnam since they are both in the same pool hall in the Atlanta area. I talked to Shawn Putnam and he basically told me I would have to unlearn EVERYTHING I know about pool (which is not much) for him to be able to work with me. I did not get the sense that I would have much room for error. I either learned his system or nothing at all. In the end I ended up working with Tim 'The Monk' Miller and the combination of working with him in person and his training material has helped me blossom as a player.

I say all of that to make a few points. As others have suggested and stated, paying more does not always relate to a better experience. A big name does not always translate to a better experience either. I mean one on one lessons from Johnny Archer how could I go wrong? But again, based on a conversation with him I don't think his lessons would have worked for me. Talk to several instructors and get a feel of how well you guys will work together. Also keep in mind how far you want to take your game. No price is a bargain if the lessons do not work for you. Working with someone you enjoy working with might be worth the old brown bag lunch a few extra times a week. Or you might get fortunate and find someone you enjoy working with, is able to help you grow as a player, and is also really affordable to work with.

As far as the measles ball, my understanding (and I leave plenty of room for correction as I do not claim to be an expert) is that ball is lighter than other cue balls (like your black, blue, or red dot cue ball). If you are not using a complete set made specifically for the measles ball you might actually be doing more harm than good to your game. The measles ball is not going to play off other object balls the same way it plays off balls made in sets for the lighter measles ball. Besides, one does not look at the football when throwing it. One does not look at the basketball when shooting it. One does not look at a bowling ball when rolling it. Why would you be looking at the cue ball when shooting? your focus should be your object ball not the cue ball. I am not a fan of something that will train you to take your focus off of the object ball. However, if you are going to train with a measles ball (and I think that is a good idea. One runs across them quite a bit in tournaments since a good number of tournaments use Aramith sets) train with, and get, the whole set and not just the measles ball.
 
I am fortunate to live in an area (Atlanta, GA) where I have access to some really big names in pool. I got to talk to Johnny Archer. At one point I think it's fair to say he was one of the best nine ball player on the planet. After talking to him a bit I decided not to take lessons from him, and talked to Shawn Putnam since they are both in the same pool hall in the Atlanta area. I talked to Shawn Putnam and he basically told me I would have to unlearn EVERYTHING I know about pool (which is not much) for him to be able to work with me. I did not get the sense that I would have much room for error. I either learned his system or nothing at all. In the end I ended up working with Tim 'The Monk' Miller and the combination of working with him in person and his training material has helped me blossom as a player.

I say all of that to make a few points. As others have suggested and stated, paying more does not always relate to a better experience. A big name does not always translate to a better experience either. I mean one on one lessons from Johnny Archer how could I go wrong? But again, based on a conversation with him I don't think his lessons would have worked for me. Talk to several instructors and get a feel of how well you guys will work together. Also keep in mind how far you want to take your game. No price is a bargain if the lessons do not work for you. Working with someone you enjoy working with might be worth the old brown bag lunch a few extra times a week. Or you might get fortunate and find someone you enjoy working with, is able to help you grow as a player, and is also really affordable to work with.

As far as the measles ball, my understanding (and I leave plenty of room for correction as I do not claim to be an expert) is that ball is lighter than other cue balls (like your black, blue, or red dot cue ball). If you are not using a complete set made specifically for the measles ball you might actually be doing more harm than good to your game. The measles ball is not going to play off other object balls the same way it plays off balls made in sets for the lighter measles ball. Besides, one does not look at the football when throwing it. One does not look at the basketball when shooting it. One does not look at a bowling ball when rolling it. Why would you be looking at the cue ball when shooting? your focus should be your object ball not the cue ball. I am not a fan of something that will train you to take your focus off of the object ball. However, if you are going to train with a measles ball (and I think that is a good idea. One runs across them quite a bit in tournaments since a good number of tournaments use Aramith sets) train with, and get, the whole set and not just the measles ball.

Great post! I totally agree about interviewing possible instructors. While referrals are important, the player must click with the instructor, particularly if it's a one-on-one situation. For example: If you're a visual learner and your instructor is a talker, you may have a problem. It's also important to make sure your instructor will be addressing your particular needs. Sure they can try to tell you that you don't know what you need, but don't sell yourself short. Maybe you do know.

Regarding the measles ball, it's always been a giant question mark in my head how our industry totally disregards the importance of keeping ball sets together. Years ago it started with the red circle cue ball, which suddenly started popping up and replacing the blue circle in Centennial sets. It's been that way ever since with various cue balls, and it's one of the most ridiculous mistakes made in the game from amateur all the way through pro levels, and it still continues to be made.

20 Years ago I was forced to carry a red circle in my case. Now it's a measles ball.
 
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I am fortunate to live in an area (Atlanta, GA) where I have access to some really big names in pool. I got to talk to Johnny Archer. At one point I think it's fair to say he was one of the best nine ball player on the planet. After talking to him a bit I decided not to take lessons from him, and talked to Shawn Putnam since they are both in the same pool hall in the Atlanta area. I talked to Shawn Putnam and he basically told me I would have to unlearn EVERYTHING I know about pool (which is not much) for him to be able to work with me. I did not get the sense that I would have much room for error. I either learned his system or nothing at all. In the end I ended up working with Tim 'The Monk' Miller and the combination of working with him in person and his training material has helped me blossom as a player.

Wonderful post; glad you didn’t go with someone you were uncomfortable with or someone that would try to turn you into a carbon copy of themselves. I would personally be interested in why you felt Archer and you would not mix well; just out of pure curiosity, I have never met the guy but would still be interested.

I say all of that to make a few points. As others have suggested and stated, paying more does not always relate to a better experience. A big name does not always translate to a better experience either.

Yup


Talk to several instructors and get a feel of how well you guys will work together. Also keep in mind how far you want to take your game. No price is a bargain if the lessons do not work for you. Working with someone you enjoy working with might be worth the old brown bag lunch a few extra times a week. Or you might get fortunate and find someone you enjoy working with, is able to help you grow as a player, and is also really affordable to work with.

Yup, that’s the way to go.

As far as the measles ball, my understanding (and I leave plenty of room for correction as I do not claim to be an expert) is that ball is lighter than other cue balls (like your black, blue, or red dot cue ball). If you are not using a complete set made specifically for the measles ball you might actually be doing more harm than good to your game. The measles ball is not going to play off other object balls the same way it plays off balls made in sets for the lighter measles ball. Besides, one does not look at the football when throwing it. One does not look at the basketball when shooting it. One does not look at a bowling ball when rolling it. Why would you be looking at the cue ball when shooting? your focus should be your object ball not the cue ball. I am not a fan of something that will train you to take your focus off of the object ball. However, if you are going to train with a measles ball (and I think that is a good idea. One runs across them quite a bit in tournaments since a good number of tournaments use Aramith sets) train with, and get, the whole set and not just the measles ball.
I carry a measles ball around with me because occasionally I will run into a place that has a really bad CB, about 10 years ago the measles ball helped me to realize that I put a little right English on everything (a problem I have since corrected, at least for the most part). You don’t need to be watching the CB during your delivery stroke to be able to watch it and see what is going on with it. I am not an equipment expert either. And I whole heartedly agree that one should get a set of balls that are the same size & weight; you and I don’t need to be experts to use a little common sense. I like the measles ball and have several. I also have a set of arimith balls (set came with a measles and a blue circle I use the measles mostly)

Lots of people perceive the measles as being larger than the other balls, even if it isn’t; if you perceive it this way I would strongly recommend that you not use/get one. That kind of distraction is not worth the benefits. So to sum it up if you like it get it if you don’t; then don’t it certainly is not a must and do get the whole set.
 
I am fortunate to live in an area (Atlanta, GA) where I have access to some really big names in pool. I got to talk to Johnny Archer. At one point I think it's fair to say he was one of the best nine ball player on the planet. After talking to him a bit I decided not to take lessons from him, and talked to Shawn Putnam since they are both in the same pool hall in the Atlanta area. I talked to Shawn Putnam and he basically told me I would have to unlearn EVERYTHING I know about pool (which is not much) for him to be able to work with me. I did not get the sense that I would have much room for error. I either learned his system or nothing at all. In the end I ended up working with Tim 'The Monk' Miller and the combination of working with him in person and his training material has helped me blossom as a player.

I say all of that to make a few points. As others have suggested and stated, paying more does not always relate to a better experience. A big name does not always translate to a better experience either. I mean one on one lessons from Johnny Archer how could I go wrong? But again, based on a conversation with him I don't think his lessons would have worked for me. Talk to several instructors and get a feel of how well you guys will work together. Also keep in mind how far you want to take your game. No price is a bargain if the lessons do not work for you. Working with someone you enjoy working with might be worth the old brown bag lunch a few extra times a week. Or you might get fortunate and find someone you enjoy working with, is able to help you grow as a player, and is also really affordable to work with.

As far as the measles ball, my understanding (and I leave plenty of room for correction as I do not claim to be an expert) is that ball is lighter than other cue balls (like your black, blue, or red dot cue ball). If you are not using a complete set made specifically for the measles ball you might actually be doing more harm than good to your game. The measles ball is not going to play off other object balls the same way it plays off balls made in sets for the lighter measles ball. Besides, one does not look at the football when throwing it. One does not look at the basketball when shooting it. One does not look at a bowling ball when rolling it. Why would you be looking at the cue ball when shooting? your focus should be your object ball not the cue ball. I am not a fan of something that will train you to take your focus off of the object ball. However, if you are going to train with a measles ball (and I think that is a good idea. One runs across them quite a bit in tournaments since a good number of tournaments use Aramith sets) train with, and get, the whole set and not just the measles ball.


Great posting !

Some students sometimes look a bit strange at me, when i recommend other instructors, too. (just some where i am sure!).
It is always helpful to pick some informations from several knowledged guys. And how Fran wrote: Both has to click- without believing your instructor blindly, it s not wort a single cent!
 
1) Should I try to find some kind of small group lesson for about $100? (my preferred budget) Should I bite the bullet and spend $300? At my level what will the difference be?

My first lesson was a low-end instructor, So was the lesson. Total waste of time and a few bucks. Do it right from the beginning. Search for Quality, Certified instructors. Find someone you are comfortable with and go from there. I do not like group lessons. 1 on 1 is the way to go.
 
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BTW have you personally seen the DVD's I pointed people too? A boat load of info for the price of a Dinner for Two.....

Coco,

I have not to make a living from teaching- but it s sure a passion for me. And i would even make this statement also about the greatest DVD-VIDEO or BOOK ever made (and known by myself!).

Where i would agree is, that a really good produced DVD/VIDEO/BOOK can have great influence *to infect* a student. And just that would be awesome, if this would happen. But to work on several things like fundamentals can end in a disaster.
There are great instuctional materials on the market -also books. And i recommend them always as an additional tool and furthermore to get more knowledge.
But my personal opinion is, that nothing helps more than finding a good instructor (where it fits for both sides!). That s the perfect key from my expirience.

And back to your question towards me: I think there s not really much i haven t read or saw since middle of the 80 s. And i for myself am just speaking from my own made expirience.
And yes i know the stuff. Your question makes anyway no sense. If i would know it or not- my answer would be the same.

kind regards from overseas,

Ingo
 
Scott: As usual i appreciate your comment :-)

stay healthy my friend,

Ingo
 
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