Do most cue makers (even the most respected ones) not build cues for a living?

[DAVE_M]

wrong analogy then, hot rodders do it for the money, my bad

Partially wrong, I'd say

Most hot rodders/street rodders build a car, because you CAN'T buy it. Well, you can, but it's more economical to build a car. Anywho, they build it for themselves, get tired of it, sell it, and build another. It's like a cancer. I don't know of anyone one car guy, that still has their first car. I also don't know many cuemakers that still have their first cue. Cue building can be seen the same way, as a cancer.

It's the cuemakers that make great cues, that can get the money they demand. You won't see Joe Shmoe from Redneckville, Mississippi getting $2,000 for his sneaky petes and $200 a cue isn't going to pay the bills, if he only makes 10 a year.

 

[JoeyInCali]

If you build cues for a living, you are most likely broke and uninsured .
Or rich like Richard Black and Ernie G.

 

[Russell Cues]

KJ speaks the truth. If you build cues full time you might live hand to mouth. Those that do build a descent amount of cues a year dont net a good living. There is indeed a 10 year wait for a southwest, period. This crap of netting 30, 40, 50 thousand a year...Baahahahahahaha !! Where do people get this idea? Broke and uninsured for starters and "saving?" Lol, there has to be a surplus in order to save, there is not.

If say you are going to build full time, 5,000 in wood for starters, 10k bare minimun to get started properly and maybe another 5,000 in tooling amd other parts. Now...it takes atleast 8 months to a year, and im being short on time, to build a solid cue. So lets say you start a new batch of fronts every week, 6 lets say, 6×52=312. But you but you will only have maybe 20-30 ish cues done at the end of your first year. Now replace the wood you're using so it can season and pay the bills and eat and gas and parts, veneers.......

Hows that profit looking???

 

[macguy]

KJ speaks the truth. If you build cues full time you might live hand to mouth. Those that do build a descent amount of cues a year dont net a good living. There is indeed a 10 year wait for a southwest, period. This crap of netting 30, 40, 50 thousand a year...Baahahahahahaha !! Where do people get this idea? Broke and uninsured for starters and "saving?" Lol, there has to be a surplus in order to save, there is not.

If say you are going to build full time, 5,000 in wood for starters, 10k bare minimun to get started properly and maybe another 5,000 in tooling amd other parts. Now...it takes atleast 8 months to a year, and im being short on time, to build a solid cue. So lets say you start a new batch of fronts every week, 6 lets say, 6×52=312. But you but you will only have maybe 20-30 ish cues done at the end of your first year. Now replace the wood you're using so it can season and pay the bills and eat and gas and parts, veneers.......

Hows that profit looking???

The cuemaker has to get his rewards in something other then money. Being your own boss, not punching a clock is worth something to many. They live meagerly and don't resent it. Or they may have a wife that works as say a teacher making like $45,000 and he is on her insurance.

Between the two they may have a nice life. Just existing and raising a family on what one can make as a cue maker only. There is no way the numbers will add up.

 

[Russell Cues]

The cuemaker has to get his rewards in something other then money. Being your own boss, not punching a clock is worth something to many. They live meagerly and don't resent it. Or they may have a wife that works as say a teacher making like $45,000 and he is on her insurance.

Between the two they may have a nice life. Just existing and raising a family on what one can make as a cue maker only. There is no way the numbers will add up.

Of course you get satisfaction from building a cue and having a customer enjoy it. I dont know any teachers making 45k. Maybe college professor, but no teachers around here. Building cues for the money will leave you hungry.

 

[DawgAndy]

Partially wrong, I'd say

Most hot rodders/street rodders build a car, because you CAN'T buy it. Well, you can, but it's more economical to build a car. Anywho, they build it for themselves, get tired of it, sell it, and build another. It's like a cancer. I don't know of anyone one car guy, that still has their first car. I also don't know many cuemakers that still have their first cue. Cue building can be seen the same way, as a cancer.

It's the cuemakers that make great cues, that can get the money they demand. You won't see Joe Shmoe from Redneckville, Mississippi getting $2,000 for his sneaky petes and $200 a cue isn't going to pay the bills, if he only makes 10 a year.

i should have said , they got into because they like to spend time in the shop and some figure out a way to make money at it eventually

 

[Baron]

When looking for contact info for the Tascarella shop some time back, I found a web site that listed a number of details about the business, including an estimated annual revenue of 130,000 a year. Sounds pretty good to me, but I do know those guys are a pretty efficient shop and that's just an estimate anyways. Could be they make less or could be they're fudging the books a bit and not putting everything they make on there (like repairs or extra shafts, for example). I'd also guess guys who have a big following in Asia like Lambros do pretty well, as the demand over there doesn't seem to have waned like it has here.

 

[KJ Cues]

That is why someone started the thread. You seem to have the answers so use yourself as an example. How many cues did you build last year? What was the average sale price and profit. How about repairs. It is tax time and I am doing my taxes so what were your numbers for 2014?

Me I think if one is a one man shop and selling cues for a normal price not like say Searing. It would seem that there are not enough hours in the day or weeks in the year to really make any real money. This could depend on what ones needs are and where you live, cost of living and so on.

I think building cues like playing pool in general can not really be more then a hobby for most. Making an actual living would be a pipe dream.

Ok, I'll respond to your question but I'll tell you in advance that I'm not typical.
I've been building >26 yrs now and (you may already know this but for those that don't),
I've run the Seyberts Custom-Shop now >14 yrs.
I get custom repair work from all over the world and a lot of it.
There was a period not long ago where I was working dbl. shifts, 7 days a week.
I don't build cues for the money or to supplement my income. I build what I want (when I can).
I love to build but my obligations don't often allow such luxuries.
Again, I'm not typical and I don't have to sell cues to eat or feed my family.
I see no benefit to our comparing income numbers. I'll just say that my income is about what
the avg. family of 4 is though I'm single and never married.
This could hardly be compared to a typical CM trying to make a living building/selling cues.
Man, that's got to be a tough row to hoe.
When someone sets out to be a CM, somebody in that family needs to have a job (a good job).
I'm going to guess that a lot of CMs are going that route.

For me and I'm certain there are others, building is an art-form. We don't do it for the money.
By the same token, I don't build for free. My talents and experience came with some costs.
Bottom-line, I'd like to see all of my fellow tradesmen and craftsmen do well.
Just because I want it doesn't mean it will happen. Budding CMs have the numbers stacked against them.


KJ

 

[Canadian cue]

The problem with cue making as I see it is that the entire business is built around the reputation of the maker. So the customer expects all the work to be done with his hands. There is only so much money you can make with your own two hands. Almost all successful businesses capitalize on other peoples labor.

 

[macguy]

Of course you get satisfaction from building a cue and having a customer enjoy it. I dont know any teachers making 45k. Maybe college professor, but no teachers around here. Building cues for the money will leave you hungry.

http://www.nea.org/home/2012-2013-average-starting-teacher-salary.html

That is just to start.

But my point was though, you need two incomes, you are not getting by building cues..
My friends wife makes like $45,000 as a teacher so that is why I said that. I looked it up though and teachers do pretty good in some states to start. He is a cop and between them they make close to a hundred grand maybe more with lots of benefits.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Don't forget to factor in the health risks.

Finishes, glues, exotic wood dust all can contribute to various health issues like cancer.

Being around high speed equipment with sharp cutting tools have dangers inherit in themselves.

 

[justinb386]

So, did they get rich off of building cues, or some other career that they had on the side? I am curious who all were the most successful cue makers that actually were able to make a good living building cues (if any). Do or did even all of the most famous cue makers just do it as a hobby and a partial income? Like Richard Harris for example. He is a famous high end cue maker. Does he build cues for a living? My guess is no, but I do not know. I assume that guys like Dan Janes and Evan Clarke make a good living in the cue making business though.

If you build cues for a living, you are most likely broke and uninsured .
Or rich like Richard Black and Ernie G.

 

[justinb386]

Is there not precautions that a cue maker can take to make the risks you are talking about very low? I am clueless about cue making, but I assume that there must be ways to do it and still be safe from all of the dust and chemicals from the glue and other stuff. I hope that all cue makers out there know how to keep themselves safe while building cues.

Don't forget to factor in the health risks.

Finishes, glues, exotic wood dust all can contribute to various health issues like cancer.

Being around high speed equipment with sharp cutting tools have dangers inherit in themselves.

 

[JC]

The best way to make it work for the small timer is by incorporating cue building with another profitable business as an add on. This way all the money you spend on the cue building dept can offset the tax liability of the other end and you can enjoy your "hobby" without pressure from needing the money yet it can operate at break even or even a loss. Lots of business' have entire departments that lose money every single year. You only have to be trying to make money for the expenses to be legit. And your wife doesn't have to nurse to support it.

JC

 

[macguy]

So, did they get rich off of building cues, or some other career that they had on the side? I am curious who all were the most successful cue makers that actually were able to make a good living building cues (if any). Do or did even all of the most famous cue makers just do it as a hobby and a partial income? Like Richard Harris for example. He is a famous high end cue maker. Does he build cues for a living? My guess is no, but I do not know. I assume that guys like Dan Janes and Evan Clarke make a good living in the cue making business though.

Richard Black was a stock broker and lived on a 10 acre estate before he even began building cues. He always struck me as a guy with the first dme he ever made.

http://www.blackcues.com/blackwood_files/blackwood.shtml

 

[justinb386]

Thanks for the info. I understand that most cue makers do it for the love of doing it and because they love the art of cue making. My favorite cue maker (Mike Durbin) is a farmer, and I think that he has always built cues as a hobby.

Richard Black was a stock broker and lived on a 10 acre estate before he even began building cues. He always struck me as a guy with the first dme he ever made.

http://www.blackcues.com/blackwood_files/blackwood.shtml