Do Pro Players Cheat?

J

Jason Robichaud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has anyone here witnessed a top level player (professional) do things during a match that could be called a foul however, nothing is called. I watched a great player use hand powder to mark the table for position, point of reference when kicking, and line for shape. When the table got tough you could see the powder routine coming. Just curious if this is a regular occurrence, acceptable, or just ignored. Coming from snooker, I call everything on myself and couldn’t imagine marking a table. Once when I stopped looking down the line of shots I started placing the chalk on the line to the pocket. I would stand on the line (behind the ball facing pocket), chalk my cue and put the chalk down on the rail. It wasn’t an aiming aid just something to nip laziness. I had a player bring this to my attention that it could be called a foul, so I stopped. When I saw a top level pro mark the table I wondered why nothing was called…

Has anyone notice people play in this grey area and why is it allowed.
 
cant remember the oponent but earl strickland did it. the 5 was almost frozen to the cue ball and he was trying to kick at the 4 ball....he hit the 5 first and rolled it about an inch but the ref was behind him and didnt see the foul....earl clearly knew he fouled but said "well if the ref didnt see it?" or something like that. lost respect for the guy after i saw that....no disrespect for his tallent, just him.
Jay
 
While what you're describing does happen, it is the exception, not the rule -- at least in pro tournaments. All kind of things go down in amateur tourneys and when gambling.

Are you saying that snooker players never bend the rules? I find that hard to believe.

--
Tristan
 
Wow, this looks like a thread with a lot of potential!!!!

Seriously, you're going to see it in pool just like you see it in any other sport. Look no further than the World Series (baseball) and Kenny Rogers (pitcher for the Detroit Tigers, not the singer).

Everyone can feel free to participate in such a discussion but bear in mind that most professionals either lurk here or have friends that do so it will get back to them.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
Has anyone here witnessed a top level player (professional) do things during a match that could be called a foul however, nothing is called. I watched a great player use hand powder to mark the table for position, point of reference when kicking, and line for shape. When the table got tough you could see the powder routine coming. Just curious if this is a regular occurrence, acceptable, or just ignored. Coming from snooker, I call everything on myself and couldn’t imagine marking a table. Once when I stopped looking down the line of shots I started placing the chalk on the line to the pocket. I would stand on the line (behind the ball facing pocket), chalk my cue and put the chalk down on the rail. It wasn’t an aiming aid just something to nip laziness. I had a player bring this to my attention that it could be called a foul, so I stopped. When I saw a top level pro mark the table I wondered why nothing was called…

Has anyone notice people play in this grey area and why is it allowed.
Click to expand...

Hell yes!!!

Gaffing the rack (for themselves or against you), moving balls, slow-play, extended bathroom breaks, breaking with the cue ball in front of the headstring and more (all of which are punishable in a Pro-Event). :eek:

Though some of it can be considered "gamesmanship" virtually all the top players are masters of this without getting caught! :cool:

No Joke!

There just aren't enough refs for this stuff to be enforced.
 
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When John Schmidt was playing Marcus Chamat at last year's WPC, John called a push, which Marcus acknowledged. The ref then called a foul, asking Marcus if he had heard John call a push out. He said no. John then packed his cues and left in disgust.

Blatant cheating and he lost a lot of respect from both fans and players with that move.
 
JayBates said:
cant remember the oponent but earl strickland did it. the 5 was almost frozen to the cue ball and he was trying to kick at the 4 ball....he hit the 5 first and rolled it about an inch but the ref was behind him and didnt see the foul....earl clearly knew he fouled but said "well if the ref didnt see it?" or something like that. lost respect for the guy after i saw that....no disrespect for his tallent, just him.
Jay
Click to expand...

I think that was against Charlie Williams in the Skins game.
 
JayBates said:
cant remember the oponent but earl strickland did it. the 5 was almost frozen to the cue ball and he was trying to kick at the 4 ball....he hit the 5 first and rolled it about an inch but the ref was behind him and didnt see the foul....earl clearly knew he fouled but said "well if the ref didnt see it?" or something like that. lost respect for the guy after i saw that....no disrespect for his tallent, just him.
Jay
Click to expand...

The opponent was Charlie Williams. That video is on YouTube somewhere.
 
yeah....im glad he lost....blatently cheeting like that is no excuese....congrats to charlie for keeping his composure and winning. i would have been too pissed to play
Jay
 
I saw a bloopers tape of a pro match where the guy broke the balls and made one...He surveyed the table for a few minutes, then picked up the CB and moved it a few inches from where it was and proceeded to run out without anyone taking notice.
 
I don't know what goes on in the lower levels of snooker, but at the championship level I'd have to say that snooker players are much more honest than the typical pool player. I've seen them call fouls on themselves for barely touching a ball that no one else saw. I've also seen them have the referee move a ball to a worse position when respotting the balls after a foul shot in an effort to make sure the balls are repositioned correctly. Of course, there is a referee present throughout the match, so it could be different when there isn't one (but I tend to not think so). It just seems more like a gentlemen's game than pool is over here.
 
Okay, you've convinced me that there may be cheating at pool. Just don't try to tell me that pro wrestling is fake.:rolleyes:
 
Cheat and Shark

When I first started off playing in tournaments many years ago, I was shocked that when I got down to my last 4 balls to win my match with a pro...that ALL OF A SUDDEN...the guy starts to ask me questions about the weather...

The guy didn't say a word to me up until then. I think that he was mad that I had an 8-ball break the game before...and he was about to lose to a beginner... The conclusion...I started talking to him...lost my focus...and blew an easy runout of the last few balls...he got me!

Because I was new to the game, I didn't think anything of it at the time...but later on...I realized that he was just trying to distract me...(in what seemed at the time like just an innocent conversation)...

I later also remembered another younger kid playing the pro...and saying to the TD during their game, "<Insert Name> is sharking me!"...so I think that it was a habit with him...
 
Its not cheating unless you get caught.When you are playing for money you have to expect that these things will happen.In every sport opposing players try to draw fouls, is that still cheating.Its just the nature of the beast.
 
JayBates said:
cant remember the oponent but earl strickland did it. the 5 was almost frozen to the cue ball and he was trying to kick at the 4 ball....he hit the 5 first and rolled it about an inch but the ref was behind him and didnt see the foul....earl clearly knew he fouled but said "well if the ref didnt see it?" or something like that. lost respect for the guy after i saw that....no disrespect for his tallent, just him.
Jay
Click to expand...

I think this has been discussed on here before (ad nauseum), but the question of whether this was technically "cheating" or not is somewhat debateable. Not to defend Earl, because I personally feel that many of the things he has done are indefensible, but the argument for him in this particular case was that, in a match with a referee, the ref, not the players, is responsible for calling the fouls. That being said...

Do I think he should have called the foul on himself? Absolutely. Do I think that many other pros, including his opponent, would have called the foul on themselves? Yes. Did I lose a lot of respect for him when I saw that? Yes. Was it cheating? It's not clear to me whether it was or not, but I can see both sides of that argument.

I do know this, though, Charlie handled it a lot better that I would have. :mad: :)
 
pool is what pool is people are going to do what it takes to win and some people have to cheat. but the only one i ever caught was a local plays pretty good but not great he was shooting on the 4 and the 5 was frozen to the point in the side he was jacked up over the 5 and when he hit the cue ball he just let the cue down on the 5 to move it i called a foul but he said he did not touch it so i just said ok. what else can you do action is rare around here.
 
Hell yes ....

Especially if they play for big money. Some players don't do somethings, but they can be put into a situation where they will - like playing a 500+ set, and they only have 1 barrel left in their pocket, then they will.

I have played several guys that I know for 50 and 100 in a friendly type set and everything is fine. Some of them if we get to 2-300 a set, then I have to watch them close. And you never trust someone you don't know.

I noticed in the IPT tournaments that several players were breaking with the cue on the headstring, when they were suppose to have the cue ENTIRELY behind the headstring.

I would be willing to bet there isn't a real good player out there, amateur or pro, that hasn't 'racked' their opponent at one time or another.

my advice:
1) Stay alert and focused on the game, not things or people around you.
2) Don't assume anything.
3) Check everything.
4) Don't be predictable.
 
Let's not forget sharking, to me that's as big a form of cheating as moving a ball. Either intentionally or not we are all guilty to some degree, I believe that 99% of what is said around a pool table is just not necessary.

Two words should be said during the course of play: push, foul

Some people like Earl consider it a shark if you say "nice shot" during his run, and to a degree he's right. My favorite is when people state the obvious between turns, like when someone says "I didn't mean to do that" when they scratch.
 
In the immortal words of Earl, " the ref didn't see it".
I saw a match between two local pros.
One pro called a foul. Everyone in attendance heard him say it.
The other pro pretended to not have heard him ( he didn't look him in the eye ). As soon as the other player picked up the cueball he went, " What are you doing?"
 
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