do spots mean much?

M

mark tadd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
example last two ,8,7,6,5, last three , the breaks ect. does getting a spot mean much? and at what point? odds on the money,games on the wire ? what is your guys opinion on getting or givving weight? im going to try to give some interesting post so we can have something to talk about otherwise this site may be a thing of the past like the rubix cube it was exciting at one time but...........
or like pool as a profession will be lol jk hope not. others should try also its will help make pool interesting. or try harder.
 
mark tadd said:
example last two ,8,7,6,5, last three , the breaks ect. does getting a spot mean much? and at what point? odds on the money,games on the wire ? what is your guys opinion on getting or givving weight? im going to try to give some interesting post so we can have something to talk about otherwise this site may be a thing of the past like the rubix cube it was exciting at one time but...........
or like pool as a profession will be lol jk hope not. others should try also its will help make pool interesting. or try harder.
Click to expand...

I feel that in 9 ball an excellent player will beat a fair
player regardless of the spot. That's why I like 1 hole.
If you get a big enough spot you can win. What do
you think?
 
hondo said:
I feel that in 9 ball an excellent player will beat a fair
player regardless of the spot. That's why I like 1 hole.
If you get a big enough spot you can win. What do
you think?
Click to expand...
i will give my 2 cents when i hear a variety of responses
just want to know how others feel and it might save someone or make someone some $$$$$$$$$ and mabey i will share times when i gave spots if i can remember
 
I wasn't aware that this forum was losing excitement, but here goes:

A ball spot in 9-ball is only meaningful when two shooters play their best game consistently, respectively, throughout the match. So if the A player shoots at an A, and the C player shoots at a C, then yeah, a 7-ball spot might contribute to the final outcome. But when you venture above the A class, I think anything less than a 6 ball spot becomes rather pointless. Archer giving Strickland the 8 should have no effect on the outcome, imho.

The problem is when a C player catches a streak, or when a weak A player breaks down and misses position, etc.

I'll use myself as an example: last week my home room held a handicapped tournament. I'm generally rated as a B player, and my third draw was against a fellow B player, slightly weaker so I was giving him the 8. I shot close to a perfect match, race to 7. God, I can almost hear Grady and Buddy announcing my .999 accustat average, I was running out from everywhere, playing lock-up safes, breaking like bustamante on steroids. After a hugely lopsided win, I went on to face a C/D player, giving him the 7 out. This is now my fourth match, and I'm tired, and my opponent is a 16 yo kid I know and my streak was snuffed out cold. I was missing easy cut shots, overshooting position, just a pool player's worst freakin' nightmare.

I went from shooting an A/Open speed to a D in one match. I could've given the first guy the 4-out and win, he saw the table 3 times and never had an open shot. The kid could've given me the 6 and I still would've lost. A complete breakdown of the handicap system if there ever was one. The score was 7-1, and 7-2.

Anyway, that was the longest post I've ever made. Hope that provided some excitement for ya.

-Roger
 
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mark tadd said:
example last two ,8,7,6,5, last three , the breaks ect. does getting a spot mean much? and at what point? odds on the money,games on the wire ? what is your guys opinion on getting or givving weight? im going to try to give some interesting post so we can have something to talk about otherwise this site may be a thing of the past like the rubix cube it was exciting at one time but...........
or like pool as a profession will be lol jk hope not. others should try also its will help make pool interesting. or try harder.
Click to expand...

I would say 90% of the time the person giving the weight wins because they're usually a little smarter or more experienced and aren't going to give enough weight for the it to make a difference in the outcome of the match.

I have a game I would like to try with a player of your caliber (when and if you get back in stroke). When I break, we play 9 Ball, when you break we play 10 Ball. Rack your own, 9 or 10 on the break spots.

Have you ever been to Providence RI?

Joe T
 
Spotting

IMO - At a pro level the only spot that matters is the break. When i was at Valley Forge over the last couple of years this was evident. On the challege table (9 ball) if you saw two pros going at it.. the favor was the breaker... I made money

I wont comment on A-D players because I have seen it all... wieght given to a weaker player no matter how much could be a bad bet if there is a big difference.
 
hondo said:
I feel that in 9 ball an excellent player will beat a fair
player regardless of the spot. That's why I like 1 hole.
If you get a big enough spot you can win. What do
you think?
Click to expand...
Hondo, you stole my thunder, thats exactly what I was going to say. I know when I was playing my best 9-ball I was stepping up to play the best players I could. Usually the 7 ball but some even gave me the 6. What I learned was that I didn't matter how I played, if the other guy played bad I won if he played good he would win. Thats why now after a 10 year layoff from pool I find myself more enthusiastic about one pocket than 9-ball.
 
In the local tournaments around cleveland, I have to play in handicap tournaments: race to 3 and depending on the skill level of my oppenent I can get the nuts most of the time.

Example: 9-ball-handicap system 2-8 w/ 8= A thru pro level of player 2=amature. They have me rated a 4 and if I play a 7 or 8 handicap, I get the last 3 and a game on the wire (the nuts) in a race to 3 games. The spots varies with the handicaps. I know I am the favorite so, I play alot of safes when I think I won't be able to run out and 99% of the time I win. Because of the these handicaps, this tournament has been run into the ground.

However playing one of these A or pro players with this handicap for hours on end in longer races or a dollar amount per game or an "ahead game" the better player might be able to win or that is what the handicap suggest.

Playing 9-ball, anyone can win. It just depends on how good a "pool player" each player is.

9-ball is a run out game. A spot between to equally good players doesn't mean much (ie the last 2, or the break, or the 8.).

Most spots for money: one person gets robbed.
 
buddha162 said:
I wasn't aware that this forum was losing excitement, but here goes:

A ball spot in 9-ball is only meaningful when two shooters play their best game consistently, respectively, throughout the match. So if the A player shoots at an A, and the C player shoots at a C, then yeah, a 7-ball spot might contribute to the final outcome. But when you venture above the A class, I think anything less than a 6 ball spot becomes rather pointless. Archer giving Strickland the 8 should have no effect on the outcome, imho.

The problem is when a C player catches a streak, or when a weak A player breaks down and misses position, etc.

I'll use myself as an example: last week my home room held a handicapped tournament. I'm generally rated as a B player, and my third draw was against a fellow B player, slightly weaker so I was giving him the 8. I shot close to a perfect match, race to 7. God, I can almost hear Grady and Buddy announcing my .999 accustat average, I was running out from everywhere, playing lock-up safes, breaking like bustamante on steroids. After a hugely lopsided win, I went on to face a C/D player, giving him the 7 out. This is now my fourth match, and I'm tired, and my opponent is a 16 yo kid I know and my streak was snuffed out cold. I was missing easy cut shots, overshooting position, just a pool player's worst freakin' nightmare.

I went from shooting an A/Open speed to a D in one match. I could've given the first guy the 4-out and win, he saw the table 3 times and never had an open shot. The kid could've given me the 6 and I still would've lost. A complete breakdown of the handicap system if there ever was one. The score was 7-1, and 7-2.

Anyway, that was the longest post I've ever made. Hope that provided some excitement for ya.

-Roger
Click to expand...
it did get me excited ty nice post. i just thought that if we posted more than we usualy do it would be more exciting . just trying to imitate the real mark tadd.........
 
mark tadd said:
example last two ,8,7,6,5, last three , the breaks ect. does getting a spot mean much? and at what point? odds on the money,games on the wire ? what is your guys opinion on getting or givving weight? .
Click to expand...

My thoughts are this:

- against two top class players, ball spots (within reason) mean very little. For example, if Efren, Earl or Johnny get to the 7 ball, they're probably going to get to the 9. Such a spot will show up on occasion, and sometimes often enough to make a difference but, in the average game, they mean nothing. At that level games on the wire are the biggest spot.

- between a good player and a weak player, a spot may have no bearing whatsoever. For example, if Mark Tadd give the average Joe Schmo the 6 out, what good does it do Schmo if he never gets to shoot?

- between weaker players, 'last' balls (i.e. last two, last three) mean more than the 'wild' balls.

- all one pocket spots are more relevant than those at nine ball.

- Snooker and straight pool spots also come into play quite frequently.

- Any weight is harder to give up in 10 ball than in 9 ball.
 
mark tadd said:
example last two ,8,7,6,5, last three , the breaks ect. does getting a spot mean much? and at what point? odds on the money,games on the wire ? what is your guys opinion on getting or givving weight? im going to try to give some interesting post so we can have something to talk about otherwise this site may be a thing of the past like the rubix cube it was exciting at one time but...........
or like pool as a profession will be lol jk hope not. others should try also its will help make pool interesting. or try harder.
Click to expand...

My one pocket playing partner started me out at 10-6 on a two out of three for $20.00. He said he would teach me the game but he wasn't going to do it for free. As I improved it later went to 9-7 and now I'm proud to say we play even and I am starting to get the best of him on that also. With out a spot I probably would never had started playing one of the best games there is. Over all he is a hundred or two ahead but I am catching up fast. Nine ball forget it, If I don't play heads up I don't play. For some reason I have a real problems giving or gettting weight. My game goes to s**t every time. Any theories on that?

Lunchmoney
 
The goal for most all players I know is to improve.

IMHO -
The reward of money is secondary to knowing that your skills are improving. Therefore, is our purpose for playing tainted just because you take someone off for the cash, whether giving or receiving a spot?

While a well designed spot can increase one's chances to win, what about the purpose for which we play? I am only speaking for myself, but I have matched up plenty and have never asked for nor given a spot. Yes I have put myself in harms way when out matched but over time my game has improved.

Those players on the west coast that know me, may be a better player and ask me to play. I try to get them to play for enough money to get there best game, but also an amount that will allow me to play without getting hurt. In other words, I have had the privilege of donating to many top players for the sake of learning from this experience and ultimately helping me improve.

The flip side is when I am asked to play by a weaker player, but they want weight. My response is this - "Sure I'll give you some weight. How long would you like?" Without knowing what my point is, I simply say to WAIT a year or so until you have the ***** to step up and play me even. Why should I give a spot to a player, and at the same time a chance to take my money? I work a job, have a family and like to play. But then there is the luck factor in pool.

In other words, I will not put my money up for chance in any billiard game because of the reward I am looking for - skill improvement in the game, not my pocket book. This is not to say that I am against those who match-up with a spot. This is good for the action, but be careful because this is a whole different ball game than playing better.

Can you tell I am now pretty much a tournament player, matching up only if the opponent is slightly better than I - thus my formula for improvement.
 
Good post, Burt.

My friend, who is a better player than I, gives me the wild 6 and I have finally got to the point where I can beat him at it. However, I think it hurts my game.........not running all the way out, I mean. I agree, and the main reason I play is to improve, and getting a spot (excepting one pocket) hurts my game, at least to some degree.

~DC
 
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Giving weight

Two local well known high stakes gamblers who play pool at the normal short stop level will only match up with a pro player if they get the 6, the break, and the first shot. Matching up otherwise always results in the pro (road player) eventually winning. To me, a novice player, it seems too much weight to overcome but in their experience any less is a sure loser.
 
mark tadd said:
example last two ,8,7,6,5, last three , the breaks ect. does getting a spot mean much? and at what point? odds on the money,games on the wire ? what is your guys opinion on getting or givving weight?
Click to expand...

Mainly a spot gets me people to play that wouldn't consider playing otherwise.

I'm not too good giving up balls in 9 ball but in handicapped tournaments I have no problem giving up games. Think most would prefer to give balls than games.

In 1-pocket I give up spots to most people I play and even when I give more weight than I should I can usually overcome it and win or at least break even.

I play a couple of players where I should be getting some weight but I prefer to play even and donate a little in order to try to get to their level. Usually if I lose a couple of hundred to them I take a break from playing them for awhile and recoup my losses with others.

Wayne
 
Now we are gettin' somewhere. These last few posts have brought into focus the ultimate goal - improvement.

I agree with Wayne, that sometimes being a top player you have to give up a spot in order to play at all, but you are probably more careful choosing an opponent. If you choose someone you like, you may keep it cheap and possibly push yourself to play higher than the spot. imho, this would be a best case scenario for the better player.

It was also mentioned by Crawdaddio about "Who am I" that can at least hang with the 6. I sensed you were referring to an inner feeling of loss or lack of reward for limiting yourself, knowing you can become much better.

In life, improvement keeps us sleeping well at night. Knowing we are doing the best that we can... and tomorrow is another day to enjoy. In a sport, it is also knowing we are challenging ourselves to reach higher levels. Thus I find very important attributes complimentary of each other.

For the majority of players, there are no limits to how high a level they can achieve. This also means there are no excuses, only goals for improvement.
 
buddha162 said:
Archer giving Strickland the 8 should have no effect on the outcome, imho.
Click to expand...

Jimmy Fusco, whose opinion I deeply respect, once suggested to me that at top pro level, the eight is worth approximately one on the wire racing to fifteen. I think that's about right.
 
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