Do these rules seem confusing to anyone ?

[Guy Manges]

This is my first time doing this so please bear with me, WPA ( B I H ) Behind the line, head string rule # 1.5 An OB that rest exactly on the head string is playable.Then if an OB is half or better behind the head string it is not playable ! Does this confuse anyone ? Rule # 1.6 Standard Call Shot . Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are Irrelevant , Irrelevant ! So if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, cushions or combinations the shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. Does this confuse anyone ? In the wrong situation these rules can be dangerous...

 

[MitchAlsup]

The rule has always been that the ball "is" where it touches the cloth (at its ½ way point).
So, a ball in the string is playable, a ball ¼mm behind the string is not.

Now, BIH behind the string is completely confusing--because that is called Ball-in-Kitchen not Ball-in-Hand.

Oh, and BTW, if CB leaves the kitchen and then returns to the kitchen*, any ball in Kitchen is playable.
(*) Massé, kicks, spin,...

 

[bbb]

You call the ball and pocket
how it gets there doesnt matter
no confusion to me

 

[tomatoshooter]

Oh, and BTW, if CB leaves the kitchen and then returns to the kitchen*, any ball in Kitchen is playable.

I thought it had to touch a ball or rail outside of the kitchen.

 

[bbb]

I thought it had to touch a ball or rail outside of the kitchen.

Rule 6.11 in the -wpa rules states the cue ball must pass the line
doesnt say any other requirement
i cant post a link from this ipad

 

[Sheldon]

Zero confusion here, what about any of that confuses you?

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Zero confusion here, what about any of that confuses you?

Well what someone knows is often confusing to someone else who is not 100% sure. Better to ask for rule clarification, then make boo boo.

Think guy who asked question got rule clarified.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Rule 6.11 in the -wpa rules states the cue ball must pass the line
doesnt say any other requirement
i cant post a link from this ipad

Thanks, I looked it up. It looks like it's ball in kitchen. It's also ball in the kitchen if there is a scratch on the break in 8 ball. Seems like everybody I play takes ball in hand when scratching on the break.

 

[bbb]

Thanks, I looked it up. It looks like it's ball in kitchen. It's also ball in the kitchen if there is a scratch on the break in 8 ball. Seems like everybody I play takes ball in hand when scratching on the break.

Yes ball behind the line

 

[straightline]

This is my first time doing this so please bear with me, WPA ( B I H ) Behind the line, head string rule # 1.5 An OB that rest exactly on the head string is playable.Then if an OB is half or better behind the head string it is not playable ! Does this confuse anyone ? Rule # 1.6 Standard Call Shot . Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are Irrelevant , Irrelevant ! So if there is any chance of confusion, e.g. with bank, cushions or combinations the shooter should indicate the ball and pocket. Does this confuse anyone ? In the wrong situation these rules can be dangerous...

Fouls take precedence and override any subsequent legalities.

The head string wording: should read UP TO but not including half way past the line yada yada...

The best way to tell is the vertical axis or base of the ball. The leading edge of the ball at a cushion since the nose can extend to the ball without any contact. I use this notion in aiming banks. The ball only goes as far as the ball groove so all my apexes are sighted to that line; ghost ball if the cloth is new.

 

[straightline]

One more thing, a ball protruding outside the headstring can be shot back into the kitchen from the kitchen IF the cue ball has to exceed the headstring to make contact.

 

[Guy Manges]

The rule has always been that the ball "is" where it touches the cloth (at its ½ way point).
So, a ball in the string is playable, a ball ¼mm behind the string is not.

Now, BIH behind the string is completely confusing--because that is called Ball-in-Kitchen not Ball-in-Hand.

Oh, and BTW, if CB leaves the kitchen and then returns to the kitchen*, any ball in Kitchen is playable.
(*) Massé, kicks, spin,...

I should have said , after break scratch ball behind the line then the ob setting exactly on the line ( half because the ball will Only set on the exact center) that the WPA rules state that if the ball is setting on the line it is playable... Rule # 1.5 ... THEN in rule 6.11 says that if the ball is setting on the line that if 1/2 half or better is behind the line that the ball is not playable. CONTRADICTION ?

 

[MajorMiscue]

I thought it had to touch a ball or rail outside of the kitchen.

I'm slow. How would a cue ball cross the kitchen line and return to the kitchen without contacting a rail or another ball?

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm slow. How would a cue ball cross the kitchen line and return to the kitchen without contacting a rail or another ball?

Masse shot. Unlikely but possible.

More likely is when a player is playing safe at 14.1. One standard safe is to play nearly parallel to the head string, go over the line, hit the cushion and with a lot of side spin come back into the kitchen for a safe. Before Irving Crane's 150-and-out run, Balsis uses this technique here (at 7:10 into the video):

If the cue ball crosses over the line and then swerves back into the kitchen before contacting the side rail, the shot is permitted.

 

[MajorMiscue]

Masse shot. Unlikely but possible.

More likely is when a player is playing safe at 14.1. One standard safe is to play nearly parallel to the head string, go over the line, hit the cushion and with a lot of side spin come back into the kitchen for a safe. Before Irving Crane's 150-and-out run, Balsis uses this technique here (at 7:10 into the video):

If the cue ball crosses over the line and then swerves back into the kitchen before contacting the side rail, the shot is permitted.

Oh, I agree that the cb can be spun so as to contact the long rail outside the kitchen and reenter the kitchen and pocket a ball in the corner. But that requires contact with a rail. I suppose some trick shot artist might be able to spin the ball back so hard that it reverses back into the kitchen without contacting a rail or another ball but I've never seen it, in person or on video.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Oh, I agree that the cb can be spun so as to contact the long rail outside the kitchen and reenter the kitchen and pocket a ball in the corner. But that requires contact with a rail. I suppose some trick shot artist might be able to spin the ball back so hard that it reverses back into the kitchen without contacting a rail or another ball but I've never seen it, in person or on video.

I think playing on a ball in the kitchen with ball in hand is very, very rare, whether first contacting a rail outside the kitchen or not. I think I've never seen it in a 14.1 tournament. Sometimes wacko 8-ball rules have you doing kicks like that but it's not really pool -- the real rules allow you to spot a ball when you have ball in hand in the kitchen and no legal target outside the kitchen.

But my comment about Balsis's safety was to point out that under the current rule, the following path is permitted for a safe. Under the rules Balsis was playing by, it wasn't.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I should have said , after break scratch ball behind the line then the ob setting exactly on the line ( half because the ball will Only set on the exact center) that the WPA rules state that if the ball is setting on the line it is playable... Rule # 1.5 ... THEN in rule 6.11 says that if the ball is setting on the line that if 1/2 half or better is behind the line that the ball is not playable. CONTRADICTION ?

I think the better (in this case) means behind the string by any trifling.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Rule 6.11 in the -wpa rules states the cue ball must pass the line
doesnt say any other requirement
i cant post a link from this ipad

A massé shot leaving the kitchen and then returning is good--it touches the cloth beyond the kitchen.

 

[MitchAlsup]

One more thing, a ball protruding outside the headstring can be shot back into the kitchen from the kitchen IF the cue ball has to exceed the headstring to make contact.

Yes ! because the CB is touching the cloth outside of the kitchen.

 

[MitchAlsup]

I think playing on a ball in the kitchen with ball in hand is very, very rare, whether first contacting a rail outside the kitchen or not. I think I've never seen it in a 14.1 tournament. Sometimes wacko 8-ball rules have you doing kicks like that but it's not really pool -- the real rules allow you to spot a ball when you have ball in hand in the kitchen and no legal target outside the kitchen.

But my comment about Balsis's safety was to point out that under the current rule, the following path is permitted for a safe. Under the rules Balsis was playing by, it wasn't.

View attachment 645940

I make at least 50% of shots like this at my local bar
{I get plenty of live practice...}

But, in my case, I use big spin and a little draw so it hits the rail outside of the kitchen.