Do tight pockets make you stroke differently?

[Neil]

You gonna need to explain that!

Your statement says the smaller a pocket gets, the easier it also gets.

1. If you aim at center pocket, the pocket opening being smaller doesn't matter much.

2. The smaller the opening, the shorter the shelf becomes. So, once you get it through the points, the ball is more apt to fall into the pocket. The wider the opening, the deeper the shelf, so, you can hit inside the points and still not make the ball.

3. The angle of the opening, and the depth of the shelf are what make a pocket easy or tough. Many think it is just the size of the opening, but that really doesn't have near as much effect as the other two do.

4. Some will say that you can't hit the rail first and still make the ball. Again, that is largely due to the cut of the opening, not so much the size. In reality, if you hit the rail first, well.....you missed the opening anyways, so why should one think it should go in on a miss?? That's just wrong thinking.

5. When I shimmed my valley barbox from 5" down to 4 1/8", I didn't even notice any difference. That is why I also had to go back and extend the shelves on each pocket. THAT made a huge difference on the pockets being tougher.

 

[RunoutJJ]

You gonna need to explain that!

Your statement says the smaller a pocket gets, the easier it also gets.

I think he means that it will play softer due to the shelf being almost not there. Sure there isn't really a shelf but if you slightly rub a rail or glance off of the point of the pocket it doesn't go. Therefore the pockets play tougher due to the fact that you actual pocket target is maybe a 1/4 of an inch. This is how the tables play at Family Billiards and Hard Times in Bellflower. Ernesto D loves to make those GC's with 4" ball spitting bastard pockets!!

You will never have a ball sitting deep in the jaws and that in itself is a good thing.

 

[JB Cases]

www.jbcases.com

 

[Lock N Load]

Playing some on a triple shimmed gold crown. Myself and all the other average players here stroke differently on this table. Almost a punchy scared stroke.

www.jbcases.com

Hello J B,
Buffalo Billiards, in Metairie/new Orleans, Louisiana has a Diamond table in the back with pockets like that in your thread. I practice on it sometime. It is a great table to practice on and keep you shooting the balls dead center of the pockets.
Then when you play on a normal table you are real good at shooting the balls in the center of the pockets. Good post, J B.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.

 

[Neil]

Here's mine, John.

 

[mantis99]

I stroke more slowly in general and really emphasize my follow through. Probably how I should normally do it.

 

[JB Cases]

My biggest problem is balls down the rail. I can't stand it when I KNOW I made a ball and it jaws out. I finally got frustrated with missing shots down the rail and quit the third set. I need to spend a couple hours to get used to the table before I try to gamble on it.

Also something that irritates me with shimmed tables is that sometimes the pockets are not all the same size. That's the case with this table. One corner is noticeably tighter than the others. Just totally gets in my head.

 

[Neil]

My biggest problem is balls down the rail. I can't stand it when I KNOW I made a ball and it jaws out. I finally got frustrated with missing shots down the rail and quit the third set. I need to spend a couple hours to get used to the table before I try to gamble on it.

Also something that irritates me with shimmed tables is that sometimes the pockets are not all the same size. That's the case with this table. One corner is noticeably tighter than the others. Just totally gets in my head.

If you run a ball down the rail, and it stays on the rail,and the ball doesn't go, the pocket angles aren't cut right. As far as your head, you have to control that one.

 

[pwd72s]

I wouldn't say it changes my stroke, but it does change my speed...more pocket speed shots.
Also, no pocket cheating. I actually think that too tight pockets removes possible variables,
so not as much fun to play.

 

[Dunnn51]

WwWd ?

I think itsa different game entirely, and again a different game for a 9 ft.
Yes & No..... Shooting on a table like this is soft and deliberate. You aren't gonna take an angle shot 1 diamond off the rail with your next OB at the other end of the table too often.
You'll need almost perfect shape to do well on a tbl like that consistently .

What would Willie do ?

I think he'd keep 'em short 'n sweet,........ and keep 'em coming !

 

[LHP5]

On tables with tight pockets I always try my best to avoid the middle pockets. Those are always rough for me on tight tables.

 

[RRfireblade]

Heaps 'O opinion coming......you've been warned.

Excessively tight pockets like those pictured in this thread are just plain silly.

Within a reasonable variance , pockets are supposed to be a certain size. On the snug side of 'normal' ? Sure. But you should be able to shoot all 3 parts of a pocket and effectively doing so likely requires more precision than mearly hitting the middle of 4"+ target.

I don't see how limiting your options , power levels and your creativity makes you a better player.

I don't see how a piece of equipment forcing you to 'focus' makes you a better player.

I think it just sounds good to be able to brag about how tight your table is as though it somehow reflects on you in some positive way.

But I don't buy it.

Flame ON !!!!!

 

[duckie]

As a ex motorcycle racer, I look at tables like race tracks. Each one is different, you better be able to read the turns and no use complaining because everyone has to race on the same track.

Each table is different, you need to read how a pocket is taking a ball and your opponent is playing on the same table.

And if your opponent has no problem puttin the ball in the pocket and you are, well, the issue isn't the table.

 

[garczar]

Tiny pockets

Having 3.75" pockets is just braggin' material. Cheating the pocket is part of running balls. Pockets that small make the game drudgery not fun. Also, if a table that tight is in commercial setting, it's only cost the owner money. The players that pay the bills are the ballbanger-funplayers and they wont play on such a tight table.

 

[Baxter]

I play on a Diamond Pro with 4" pockets regularly. I don't stroke any differently than a table with big pockets. You're not going to play to your potential if you're afraid of the table. The only adjustment I make is to hit center pocket all the time. I don't try to cheat anything unless my object ball is close to the pocket.

 

[Baxter]

Having 3.75" pockets is just braggin' material. Cheating the pocket is part of running balls. Pockets that small make the game drudgery not fun. Also, if a table that tight is in commercial setting, it's only cost the owner money. The players that pay the bills are the ballbanger-funplayers and they wont play on such a tight table.

That's why staff should be informing unknown players or obvious bangers of the table conditions. We have 10 tables in my room, 1 4" table, 3 4.25" tables, and 6 4.5" tables. Counter staff will tell someone new that "the front table" is a professional caliber table with really tight pockets and might not be too much fun to play on unless they're into that sorta thing. The 3 "back tables" are challenging with tight pockets, and all the "middle tables" have normal pockets and are the best for recreational players.

 

[Raggedy Andy]

Tight Pockets

My take on this is simple. Certain games are better played on this kind of equipment, others not so much. Any game that requires rhythm, like straight pool....or even 9 ball.....are a lot tougher to play with these kinds of pockets. You worry to much about pocketing the ball......and not speed and angle. On the other hand, one pocket is better suited on a table with challenging pockets, because it enhances the chance of being punished if you miss. But, to your question......Do these kinds of pockets change your stroke??? Mentally, yes. Point of CB/OB contact must be pure......so you focus too much and the straightness of the stroke, and not other factors like position play.

 

[Shazar]

I think aiming becomes an issue more than stroke

Although I do believe most errors are stroke related.


In terms of tight pockets, your pocket center changes dramatically


Inside horn becomes a major obstacle, while outside horn leads to hangers


Forces a different aimed shot in my humble opinion

Not to mention far less forgiving in terms of errors


Nice thread John

 

[Harold Smith]

No, I don't stroke the ball any different just shoot softer on some shots. I think they help alot when playing one pocket, you can get a ball sitting in the jaws out easier. If you learn to center cut pockets they don't play that much different.--Smitty

 

[sylo]

1. If you aim at center pocket, the pocket opening being smaller doesn't matter much.

2. The smaller the opening, the shorter the shelf becomes. So, once you get it through the points, the ball is more apt to fall into the pocket. The wider the opening, the deeper the shelf, so, you can hit inside the points and still not make the ball.

3. The angle of the opening, and the depth of the shelf are what make a pocket easy or tough. Many think it is just the size of the opening, but that really doesn't have near as much effect as the other two do.

4. Some will say that you can't hit the rail first and still make the ball. Again, that is largely due to the cut of the opening, not so much the size. In reality, if you hit the rail first, well.....you missed the opening anyways, so why should one think it should go in on a miss?? That's just wrong thinking.

5. When I shimmed my valley barbox from 5" down to 4 1/8", I didn't even notice any difference. That is why I also had to go back and extend the shelves on each pocket. THAT made a huge difference on the pockets being tougher.

I regularly play on tables that i have highlighted above and neil is 100% right! deep shelves and the angles of the openings make it a very tough table. The angles of the opening ejects balls often if not hit perfect or with pocket speed.