Do tip scuffers work?

ShootingArts said:
If the abrasive chalk particles were adhered firmly to the chalk cube you would probably be correct. However the whole reason chalk works for it's purpose is that it is more loosely bound to itself than it binds to the leather of the tip. What actually has the primary wearing or cutting action are the chalk particles that are embedded in the tip and stationary.

I just treated a 1.5 inch long piece of leather by attaching it to a half inch thick piece of stone and then rubbing a piece of chalk over the surface which was very similar to a tip in texture. After conditioning the leather to match a typical tip with some use, I cleaned as much chalk out of it as possible and measured the thickness of the leather. Then I started rubbing a cube of chalk against it that had already been ground flat. I held the leather vertically so chalk dust could fall freely and I also cleaned the leather very frequently in an effort to expose it to the chalk cube as much as possible.

When I completed the test I had cut just over 100/1000", one-tenth of an inch, off of the chalk cube.(Master blue, flag) The leather measured exactly the same as before testing after cleaning. Not even .001 lost. The leather tip holding the grit works much the same way as a leather strop holding grit is used to sharpen fine steel. This isn't to say that no leather is lost, however the abrasive action of chalk is not the cause of significant leather loss.

Rubbing the chalk across the top of the tip doesn't explain tip flattening, most experienced shooters focus chalking towards the edge of the tip where it is needed anyway which would round the tip more if the abrasive action of chalk was the reason for leather removal.

Hu
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It's more likely that chalk wears the tip when the tip hits the ball.

pj
chgo
 
how and why?

Patrick Johnson said:
It's more likely that chalk wears the tip when the tip hits the ball.

pj
chgo
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Sounds reasonable too, or it would if you could explain how and why it would wear the middle of the tip without sliding contact more than it would wear the sides with sliding contact. You said the tip flattens.

Hu
 
It's more likely that chalk wears the tip when the tip hits the ball.
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Sounds reasonable too, or it would if you could explain how and why it would wear the middle of the tip without sliding contact more than it would wear the sides with sliding contact. You said the tip flattens.

Hu
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I didn't say chalk wear flattens it. For that matter, I didn't say it flattens for everybody. I only said I reshape mine because it flattens.

pj
chgo
 
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Hmmmm.........

ShootingArts said:
Ice wedges the stone apart because splits are angled. Chalk in an angled hole does the same thing if the hole is deep enough like the holes some of the sharp pointed tools make. Chalk particles measure as small as .0005 to .0015(yes I just, measured some) The holes are closer to ten times that at the top leaving plenty of room for the chalk to get packed and wedged into the holes.

Keep wedging something very hard that doesn't compress or compact past a certain point into something that can give, I'll let you figure out what happens.

Hu
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I would think the first time you hit the cue ball with a medium to hard stroke, all that chalk would jump right out of those holes. I don't agree with you on this one.
I also don't see the need to shape or rough up my tip very much. Once it has been shaped, mine rarely mushroom. Most guys miscue and start reshaping or scuffing their tips. Most miscues are due to a bad stroke, not a glazed tip.
 
will it go 'round in circles . . .

Patrick Johnson said:
I didn't say chalk wear flattens it. For that matter, I didn't say it flattens for everybody. I only said I reshape mine because it flattens.

pj
chgo
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pj,

You are spinning around in circles faster than a top in this thread. I have had enough entertainment at your expense.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Hu
 
I take my cue outside, tap it few times on the road <important: tip facing the road surface> and it's good to go.
 
we can disagree

tucson9ball said:
I would think the first time you hit the cue ball with a medium to hard stroke, all that chalk would jump right out of those holes. I don't agree with you on this one.
I also don't see the need to shape or rough up my tip very much. Once it has been shaped, mine rarely mushroom. Most guys miscue and start reshaping or scuffing their tips. Most miscues are due to a bad stroke, not a glazed tip.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if we agree or disagree. Some chalk comes off as high speed photography easily shows. Some gets hammered in. The leather distorts and does close somewhat behind it capturing the chalk.

You are absolutely right and smart about your tip maintenance. The unneeded shaping and scuffing wears out far more tips than use. It doesn't make sense to constantly cut, pick, or scuff on a tip but many do.

Hu
 
A four in hand file from your hardware store will do anything that needs to be done to a cue tip.

Dave Nelson
 
i have been using a willards shaper for about 10yrs. I used to buy another one when it became packed with leather, but i got to thinking about it & found somthing that makes em almost as good as new.


All i do is boil the willards in water for about 20min & then take it out of the water, put it on the electric heating element till it smokes & then put it back in the boiling water for about 5min.

Sounds like alot of trouble but it's not really.
 
ShootingArts said:
It doesn't matter if we agree or disagree. Some chalk comes off as high speed photography easily shows. Some gets hammered in. The leather distorts and does close somewhat behind it capturing the chalk.

You are absolutely right and smart about your tip maintenance. The unneeded shaping and scuffing wears out far more tips than use. It doesn't make sense to constantly cut, pick, or scuff on a tip but many do.

Hu
Click to expand...


i think it it's done in moderation it shouldn't be a big problem
 
ShootingArts said:
If the abrasive chalk particles were adhered firmly to the chalk cube you would probably be correct. However the whole reason chalk works for it's purpose is that it is more loosely bound to itself than it binds to the leather of the tip. What actually has the primary wearing or cutting action are the chalk particles that are embedded in the tip and stationary.

I just treated a 1.5 inch long piece of leather by attaching it to a half inch thick piece of stone and then rubbing a piece of chalk over the surface which was very similar to a tip in texture. After conditioning the leather to match a typical tip with some use, I cleaned as much chalk out of it as possible and measured the thickness of the leather. Then I started rubbing a cube of chalk against it that had already been ground flat. I held the leather vertically so chalk dust could fall freely and I also cleaned the leather very frequently in an effort to expose it to the chalk cube as much as possible.

When I completed the test I had cut just over 100/1000", one-tenth of an inch, off of the chalk cube.(Master blue, flag) The leather measured exactly the same as before testing after cleaning. Not even .001 lost. The leather tip holding the grit works much the same way as a leather strop holding grit is used to sharpen fine steel. This isn't to say that no leather is lost, however the abrasive action of chalk is not the cause of significant leather loss.

Rubbing the chalk across the top of the tip doesn't explain tip flattening, most experienced shooters focus chalking towards the edge of the tip where it is needed anyway which would round the tip more if the abrasive action of chalk was the reason for leather removal.

Hu
Click to expand...


Hu,

I agree-the chalk is more loosely bound to itself than it binds to the leather of the tip. With that in mind can you explain what conditions are present to make it squeek? when its rubbed across the tip on some cues, I have a friend who can make it chirp loud like a bird.

i hold a regular tapper up to the tip and roll the cue it dosent make holes in the tip just gets rid of the glaze, no leather is removed as I dont grind it,
 
IMHO the worst item ever invented for Tip Maintainance is, as it does nothing well.
beatdeadhorse.gif





UltimateTipTool001228.jpg




But your Cue Tip repair person will love you for using it, s it makes work for them.
cheers.gif
 
2rgrbn said:
The mistake that I often see made is the method in which the tools are used. For this example lets use the Brad Scuffer or a piece of 220 Sand paper, hold the scuffer in one hand and roll the cue tip along the scuffer and it will lift the leather without deforming the tip the mistake I see many make is holding the cue and swiping the scuffer over the tip.
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Exactly!! I use a Brad Scuffer and I don't scrape it across the tip. I roll it with a very slight twist and pressure to just break the glaze up slightly.

Russ.......
 
poolhustler said:
Exactly!! I use a Brad Scuffer and I don't scrape it across the tip. I roll it with a very slight twist and pressure to just break the glaze up slightly.

Russ.......
Click to expand...

Got a picture of the BRAD SCUFFER?
 
you've got me!

Fatboy said:
Hu,

I agree-the chalk is more loosely bound to itself than it binds to the leather of the tip. With that in mind can you explain what conditions are present to make it squeek? when its rubbed across the tip on some cues, I have a friend who can make it chirp loud like a bird.

i hold a regular tapper up to the tip and roll the cue it dosent make holes in the tip just gets rid of the glaze, no leather is removed as I dont grind it,
Click to expand...

Fatboy,

To be honest I have never given any thought to why some chalk or some people chalking makes it squeak. I have seen TV pool where the mike's were positioned right at tip height and most of the players made horrible scratching and squeaking noises when the tip was only a few inches from the mike but I don't know what causes those squeals that can be heard halfway across the pool room.

At a guess I would speculate that large areas of chalk and tip surface that are perfectly matched are generating the noise but I still wouldn't know the exact mechanism. It seems to take just the right amount of pressure to make noise too, more or less pressure makes less noise. I have worked at generating the noise a few times in the past when it bugged other people who liked to play games. It bugged me pretty bad too but I found the cure, my high frequency hearing rivals Shane's. Unfortunately nothing about my pool game rivals his.

Hope you are having a great Thanksgiving,
Hu
 
poolhustler said:
Exactly!! I use a Brad Scuffer and I don't scrape it across the tip. I roll it with a very slight twist and pressure to just break the glaze up slightly.

Russ.......
Click to expand...

Thank for the link.;)
 
Hello,

Does anyone know if the Sandman shaper is a nickel or dime radius? I can't find this info anywhere.

Thanks,

J.W.
 
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