Do you have to be able to draw the cb the length of the table to be a good player. (Ob in jaws of cornner pocket Cb inside one diamond at other end of table, make Ob draw Cb back to end rail)
Do u have to draw the ball ???
- Thread starter Mowem down
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Mowem down said:
Depends on your definition of a good player.
You should be able to power draw the cue ball, it can get you out of a lot of tight spots.
No, not at all. You can learn all the other parts of pool and leave yourself in perfect position after every shot. Then you never need to draw that much.
Seriously though, How often do you need to draw the ball that far? There are always other ways to get there, or alternative shots.
If you are talking about having the stroke to be able to do that. Then maybe you do. If you can't draw more than 5 or 6 feet then maybe you need to work on your stroke, replace your tip, follow through, etc. etc.
Seriously though, How often do you need to draw the ball that far? There are always other ways to get there, or alternative shots.
If you are talking about having the stroke to be able to do that. Then maybe you do. If you can't draw more than 5 or 6 feet then maybe you need to work on your stroke, replace your tip, follow through, etc. etc.
The point is not whether you would need to execute such a draw often in a game scenario. Being able to do so means you have a straight stroke and are capable of accelerating through the cueball smoothly. If you can't do it you still have room for improvement in your stroke, which will help all areas of your game. You would be hard-pressed to find a pro that can't execute a table-length draw; you would be just as hard-pressed to find one that needs to do so regularly.
Being able to draw the ball the length of the table is a nice weapon to have in your game. Being able to control your draw so you can draw it 18 inches, or 3 feet, or what ever is required at the time is far more important.
Much like the break shot...accuracy and control is often more critical than power.
Steve
Much like the break shot...accuracy and control is often more critical than power.
Steve
Mowem down said:
No! that's just a tool to have in your box. technically there're other ways to play position on that shot. the # of ways you know how to do things can only make you a better player
Drawing the ball -this far- is a must
Who dictates how long you should draw your ball? Why is the shot you described important? It isn't to me. From what I understand, drawing the ball back to the end rail with the object ball in the jaws and the cue ball behind the head string is really, really difficult. Buddy Hall would definitely struggle with that (trust me, I know), I have a good stroke too, and I would barely be able to do that. There's probably a hand ful of pros who could really draw their ball like that (without having to really lay into it), Jose Parica, one person who comes to mind is Larry Nevel. He could draw his ball 3 or 4 rails from the end rail. Efren can't draw his ball, and neither can Busti. Not without really laying into it. This is according to Buddy, cause we talked about this once.
You have to ask yourself, why that is necessary. It really isn't. I would have to say that to be a 9 or 10 speed player, you should come pretty close, but not to be an average schmo (4 to 6 speed).
If you can draw the ball back straight and more than half the table, from over a half a table distance away, you have enough stroke to be the greatest player in the world. The game is not just about 'stroke'. It's about much, much more. I have a drill for you and this is the drill for flaws in your stroke. Important to watch what the cue ball does after you make the ball, (if you even make the ball). When you can do this every time, you have the skill to become the greatest player in the world. Just condition your mental toughness by matching up everyday, and you will be on your way. :dance:
Here's the test:
The shot is down the long rail with the CB and OB a couple mm's (same distance) away from the rail. Put the OB at the first diamond above the side pocket and the CB at the diamond just above the corner pocket. Hit that shot with follow into the pocket, and then hit it with draw into the pocket. Can you do it every time? That is the skill you are looking for.
Check back with me when you have that answer. Good Luck.
Who dictates how long you should draw your ball? Why is the shot you described important? It isn't to me. From what I understand, drawing the ball back to the end rail with the object ball in the jaws and the cue ball behind the head string is really, really difficult. Buddy Hall would definitely struggle with that (trust me, I know), I have a good stroke too, and I would barely be able to do that. There's probably a hand ful of pros who could really draw their ball like that (without having to really lay into it), Jose Parica, one person who comes to mind is Larry Nevel. He could draw his ball 3 or 4 rails from the end rail. Efren can't draw his ball, and neither can Busti. Not without really laying into it. This is according to Buddy, cause we talked about this once.
You have to ask yourself, why that is necessary. It really isn't. I would have to say that to be a 9 or 10 speed player, you should come pretty close, but not to be an average schmo (4 to 6 speed).
If you can draw the ball back straight and more than half the table, from over a half a table distance away, you have enough stroke to be the greatest player in the world. The game is not just about 'stroke'. It's about much, much more. I have a drill for you and this is the drill for flaws in your stroke. Important to watch what the cue ball does after you make the ball, (if you even make the ball). When you can do this every time, you have the skill to become the greatest player in the world. Just condition your mental toughness by matching up everyday, and you will be on your way. :dance:
Here's the test:
The shot is down the long rail with the CB and OB a couple mm's (same distance) away from the rail. Put the OB at the first diamond above the side pocket and the CB at the diamond just above the corner pocket. Hit that shot with follow into the pocket, and then hit it with draw into the pocket. Can you do it every time? That is the skill you are looking for.
Check back with me when you have that answer. Good Luck.
I play a bar box mostly these days and I can if Simonis felt is available draw the ball hard enough to jump it off the table when it draws back into a rail. Having said that I seldom find this scenario to be productive in a game where it is valuable is in cases where the draw is used to skid the cue (sideways) for a break out or maybe I want to get on a ball or group of balls and push them down table. There is always another way but draw is an important tool. It seems like many guys have different comfort levels with various english's I prefer running(natural) english and draw. So they are the 2 things I use the most many many players use reverse(unnatural) english in a majority of shots. I think anyone can favor one style or another but I have never met a better then average player that couldn't draw the cue ball the length of the table if they needed to.
deadgearplyr said:
I am capable of drawing length of the table from jaw to jaw. But to stay good at it you have to practice it, and practicing that shot is hard on yourself and hard on your tip. The miscue (as Massey says, "the worst sound in pool") is the quickest way out of stroke imo. Fear of miscues will ruin a stroke in a hurry. So I usually either practice severe draw shots like that either a whole lot to get mentally immune to miscues or not at all.
With any sort of angle available, spinning around the table is usually a better option. These days I don't worry about even having a good power draw stroke until I'm already feeling very good about my game otherwise.
Most pros can consistently draw one and a half table lengths on a close draw shot, which is much easier. Charlie Williams and Earl Strickland led the informal contest we had at a JOB's pro event. But that was without Larry Nevel, lol.
Okay, for starters, I think it's important to diagram this shot because I seriously wonder if all the respondants even know precisely what the OP is talking about:
I'll put it bluntly - if Johnny Archer hit me with this shot, it's pretty much a guarantee, you'll see me rolling my eyes mouthing the words, "You have to be kidding me!"
On the otherhand, if you're playing on new fast cloth with evenly weighted balls, you should be able to nail this given the right number of tries.
It's really not easy. In fact, this is an extremely challenging shot BUT having this sort of stroke in your arsenal is valuable. This type of stroke doesn't come up terribly often but it does come up. However, it's important to know, no player in the world LIKES to have to take a shot like this. There's just so much that can go wrong. If you're on old cloth or the cueball is 20 years younger than the rest of the balls, you're going to have a tough time pulling this off. I would venture to say almost every player out there will look for an alternative but assuming there's none, good players will be able to pull this off from time to time.
I'll put it bluntly - if Johnny Archer hit me with this shot, it's pretty much a guarantee, you'll see me rolling my eyes mouthing the words, "You have to be kidding me!"
On the otherhand, if you're playing on new fast cloth with evenly weighted balls, you should be able to nail this given the right number of tries.
It's really not easy. In fact, this is an extremely challenging shot BUT having this sort of stroke in your arsenal is valuable. This type of stroke doesn't come up terribly often but it does come up. However, it's important to know, no player in the world LIKES to have to take a shot like this. There's just so much that can go wrong. If you're on old cloth or the cueball is 20 years younger than the rest of the balls, you're going to have a tough time pulling this off. I would venture to say almost every player out there will look for an alternative but assuming there's none, good players will be able to pull this off from time to time.
I think you are not understanding your own question correctly, or maybe asking the wrong one. Let me explain.
One of the biggest things I try to teach people or stress to them is the ability to stroke the cue ball, which involves both draw and follow. As they progress in their game, they will need to have these tools available to them, and be able to control them to the finest degree. Now, it's not about who can draw the furthest, although it comes in handy more than you think, rather about expanding your range as a player. The more powerful your stroke is, the more you can manipulate your cueball to do what you want it to do. Unless you play perfect shape every shot, you will have the need to be able to "put" the cue ball where you have to have it. Having a great stroke allows you to have a wider range what you can do to the cue when laying in a particular tangent line. It also allows you to stroke the ball easier (softer) in many situations, thus allowing you to pocket more balls, but still move the cue to the appropriate position.
One of the biggest inhibitors for women in pool is the draw stroke. You will find that this is really what separates the good women players from the really good ones. Make a list of who the top 5-10 female players are, then look at the rest. I believe no one past that list has a really strong stroke. Look at Ga Young, Jasmin Ouschan, etc. There is a huge difference in their games versus the other women who roll the ball around.
One of the biggest things I try to teach people or stress to them is the ability to stroke the cue ball, which involves both draw and follow. As they progress in their game, they will need to have these tools available to them, and be able to control them to the finest degree. Now, it's not about who can draw the furthest, although it comes in handy more than you think, rather about expanding your range as a player. The more powerful your stroke is, the more you can manipulate your cueball to do what you want it to do. Unless you play perfect shape every shot, you will have the need to be able to "put" the cue ball where you have to have it. Having a great stroke allows you to have a wider range what you can do to the cue when laying in a particular tangent line. It also allows you to stroke the ball easier (softer) in many situations, thus allowing you to pocket more balls, but still move the cue to the appropriate position.
One of the biggest inhibitors for women in pool is the draw stroke. You will find that this is really what separates the good women players from the really good ones. Make a list of who the top 5-10 female players are, then look at the rest. I believe no one past that list has a really strong stroke. Look at Ga Young, Jasmin Ouschan, etc. There is a huge difference in their games versus the other women who roll the ball around.
Jude Rosenstock said:
I played a very deep hanging 8 ball with draw off the 8 ball and the right inside facing of a diamond pro pocket late in a tie match in the winners bracket finals of a pro tournament. I hit it too well, drawing it straight into the corner pocket with speed to spare just like I tried. I thought I'd come up short or off line, so I went for the pocket and I got it dead f#$%en center.
The 10 was a little off the rail and I did not want to come up short and have a tough shot. If it'd been frozen I might not have tried so hard to get perfect. Maybe all I need is a little more confidence, lol.:grin:
the old saying still has a lot of truth to it
There is an old saying, "draw for flash, follow for cash." Draw is purty and is usually one of the first things somebody learns. Seems to stick with players because I see people trying tough draw shots in pro matches when a follow shot to get the same shape is far easier. I'm a lazy man and always try to do things the easy way.
I can draw hell out of a cue ball without control, can't say it does me much good. I can draw it a bit with control. I can follow with control three or four times the distance I can draw the cue ball with control.
Hu
There is an old saying, "draw for flash, follow for cash." Draw is purty and is usually one of the first things somebody learns. Seems to stick with players because I see people trying tough draw shots in pro matches when a follow shot to get the same shape is far easier. I'm a lazy man and always try to do things the easy way.
I can draw hell out of a cue ball without control, can't say it does me much good. I can draw it a bit with control. I can follow with control three or four times the distance I can draw the cue ball with control.
Hu