Do you prefer spin or high / low to get position

[Sharivari]

Hi AZB,

I have a question that may leads to a discussion, because you can't give a clear answer. There are certain shots in pool, where you can play either a follow or draw shot to get position, but you can also play it with just spin / english / side.

Personally I prefer to play these shots with spin, because for me it's easier to calculate and predict the path that the cueball will travel. Also if I hit high or low I am not really sure how much of the high or low really arrives at the objectball + good draw or follow shots are harder to play than spin shots.

If you don't know what shots I am talking about, one of them is the shot in the video at 1:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpO3CCIibZQ

So, what is your personal preference and why?

 

[medallio]

I’m kind of forced to use low right for shot in video as I have subpar old cloth and can’t rely on cb to get there with just plain right English. I prefer low right anyways I guess

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Also if I hit high or low I am not really sure how much of the high or low really arrives at the objectball + good draw or follow shots are harder to play than spin shots....

I agree on the draw part, but for the follow I think this is exactly wrong, provided that you plan for a rolling cue ball. If the cue ball is rolling smoothly on the cloth when it hits the object ball, the follow is exactly proportional to the speed of the shot. It is fairly easy to get the cue ball to roll smoothly on the cloth.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If you don't know what shots I am talking about, one of them is the shot in the video at 1:55 ...

For that shot I would normally play with roughly equal amounts of right and draw. As the shot gets straighter, more draw comes in (and a rail is eliminated) and for a thinner shot more side comes in because the draw is not as useful.

If you are planning to go up-table with just side spin and no draw, I think the best way is to hit with just a little draw so the cue ball arrives as a stun shot. On many shots you can use draw to effectively "multiply" the side spin.

 

[hang-the-9]

Hi AZB,

I have a question that may leads to a discussion, because you can't give a clear answer. There are certain shots in pool, where you can play either a follow or draw shot to get position, but you can also play it with just spin / english / side.

Personally I prefer to play these shots with spin, because for me it's easier to calculate and predict the path that the cueball will travel. Also if I hit high or low I am not really sure how much of the high or low really arrives at the objectball + good draw or follow shots are harder to play than spin shots.

If you don't know what shots I am talking about, one of them is the shot in the video at 1:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpO3CCIibZQ

So, what is your personal preference and why?

That is a very common shot, glad you took the time to do a specific video on it. Really it depends on the angle, the more angle I have, the more I would use a bit of side with draw. Best angle for me to get would be when almost a stun shot would bring the cueball across to the opposite side rail, maybe 1/2 to 1 tip low.

In my case, when I use both draw and low on that shot, I end up going too low on the rail with too much speed and end up going to the rail close to the corner pocket and then carrying on past position leaving me no shot. Also depending on the cloth and rails the shot would play different. I play in a place with old rails, slippery faster new but cheaper cloth that does not take spin well, and in a place with new rails and 2 yr old Simonis, that shot would be hit differently by quite a bit in both places. Which is a good example of why pool is such a difficult game to play well in, while the shot is the same angle on different tables, the equipment will change how you play it by a pretty big amount.

 

[FeelDaShot]

I think most people would shoot this shot with low outside (myself included).

For me, speed is the deciding factor on whether or not I use the outside english. With outside english, you can hit the ball a little harder which is more comfortable for me. With the spin induced throw from the outside english, you're able to have a fatter hit which slows down the cue ball.

 

[BRussell]

Hi AZB,

I have a question that may leads to a discussion, because you can't give a clear answer. There are certain shots in pool, where you can play either a follow or draw shot to get position, but you can also play it with just spin / english / side.

Personally I prefer to play these shots with spin, because for me it's easier to calculate and predict the path that the cueball will travel. Also if I hit high or low I am not really sure how much of the high or low really arrives at the objectball + good draw or follow shots are harder to play than spin shots.

If you don't know what shots I am talking about, one of them is the shot in the video at 1:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpO3CCIibZQ

So, what is your personal preference and why?

I’ve been enjoying your videos a lot since I discovered them a few weeks ago.

A very minor point that you might want to fix, but no big deal if you don’t: Your angles are depicted incorrectly. What you call a 30 degree cut is 30 degrees from a straight in cue ball, not 30 degrees from the line the object ball takes, and same with your 50 degree cut. I think everyone knows what you mean but they’re drawn as 150 and 130 degrees on the video.

 

[336Robin]

Hi AZB,

I have a question that may leads to a discussion, because you can't give a clear answer. There are certain shots in pool, where you can play either a follow or draw shot to get position, but you can also play it with just spin / english / side.

Personally I prefer to play these shots with spin, because for me it's easier to calculate and predict the path that the cueball will travel. Also if I hit high or low I am not really sure how much of the high or low really arrives at the objectball + good draw or follow shots are harder to play than spin shots.

If you don't know what shots I am talking about, one of them is the shot in the video at 1:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpO3CCIibZQ

So, what is your personal preference and why?

I play a lot with Side Spin on Cut Shots that are at what I consider reasonable distances from the Cue Ball and I vary the amount of spin quite a bit.

 

[Sharivari]

Thanks for the hint with the angles, I was a little negligent when drawing the graphics.

I agree with everything you guys said

 

[ChrisinNC]

On the shot you're referring to on your video, low right would seem to be the easiest. Just plain right like you played at least it seemed to me required playing way more right spin and thus requiring way more compensation in your aim for deflection. You nearly overcut the shot. I see no option for playing that particular shot with straight draw (not outside draw), as it would bring the opposite side pocket where you are standing in to play, as you demonstrated. I also see no option for inside follow. I think most of us just feel more comfortable with bottom outside, to make sure we get the cue ball well past the side pocket in that example.

 

[BRussell]

The other issue is that the closer the object ball is to the rail, the less the draw would work and the more you’d need to use English. With the ball just a cm or less from the rail, try to get back down table with only draw. With it a ball width or two away from the rail, draw might be all you need.

 

[Scott Lee]

I thought the video was well done, especially mixing in CG and graphics, with the real time video. Something that, imo, few poolplayers even think of, is using straight side, with no top or bottom. It's always high right, or low left...never just side. I've run across very good players who are unaware of the effects of pure sidespin, especially off of a cushion. Very dramatic CB movement, with very little speed. Of course, the angles and distances between CB & OB will always create some extra variables. I also liked how Sharivari spoke to, and demonstrated, alternative ways to play the shot, and why he chose the route he did. I haven't watched all of your videos, but I plan to. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

If you don't know what shots I am talking about, one of them is the shot in the video at 1:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpO3CCIibZQ

So, what is your personal preference and why?

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here. You need to be careful of your speed with a little low right. You could scratch in that upper corner pocket. If you got where you got with just right English then think where you might have gone with a combination of low AND right.

Speed, on almost any shot in pool, is important. I ought to know, I screw it up all the time.

r/DCP

 

[HawaiianEye]

I thought the video was well done, especially mixing in CG and graphics, with the real time video. Something that, imo, few poolplayers even think of, is using straight side, with no top or bottom. It's always high right, or low left...never just side. I've run across very good players who are unaware of the effects of pure sidespin, especially off of a cushion. Very dramatic CB movement, with very little speed. Of course, the angles and distances between CB & OB will always create some extra variables. I also liked how Sharivari spoke to, and demonstrated, alternative ways to play the shot, and why he chose the route he did. I haven't watched all of your videos, but I plan to. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I use straight side on many, many shots. If you have good speed control it makes it much easier.

 

[TEAM SLO]

I always use follow rather than draw if the options are both there and teach my son the same.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I always use follow rather than draw if the options are both there and teach my son the same.

I think that if you have a choice follow will give more accuracy, but I just remembered a reason to use draw when it may even be the harder way to play the shot....

On a table that is strange to you, it is important to find out its quirks before some critical shot depends on a quirk. For example, how dirty, sticky, slippery, smooth, fast the cloth is will affect draw shots a lot, especially if the cue ball is several diamonds from the object ball.

Consider the shot in the diagram. You can get from the 2 ball to Line A for the 3 ball with either draw or follow.



If you use follow, you don't learn much about the table except a little about how the rails bounce. All tables will work more or less the same for the shot. The draw shot from that distance will tell you more about the cloth.

This is a good shot to test your draw because position on the 3 is not critical. As long as you don't draw behind the 7 you can make the 3 and get on the 4.

On the other hand, if you have to get the right angle on the 3 to break apart the 6-7 cluster (if they were a cluster) then follow might be the better plan if the draw conditions are unknown.

So, the general principal here is that if you are not yet comfortable on the table or with a particular technique, you can learn while playing if you use easy positions for learning opportunities. I encourage students to use side spin in games even when they don't feel quite ready for it provided that the situation is easy and they are sure of making the shot and not messing up the position.