Do you think 9-ball would be better or worse if a mandatory push out after the break became a standard rule?

bb9ball

Registered
Have a heavy cloth bag at each table. The balls are placed in the bag and the racker reaches in and pulls the balls out one by one. The balls are placed in a preset order, (I.e., left to right, back to front) in the rack. The only exceptions are the one and nine. They have 20 seconds to get the balls out and place them in the rack. They then have 10 seconds to set the rack.

Here is a match from a tournament that tried something new to avoid pattern racking, but one of these players didn't exactly follow the rules. Fortunately, that one didn't win.

They were supposed to shuffle the balls, push them against the rail in a single line and then rack from the ends, ie. the first 2 end balls behind the one, the next 2 end balls next to the 10 ball, then the last 4 behind the 10.

 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob, you are right. He used a 'purposeful pattern.' So, I wonder why a pro is not called on it? Are other players doing this, is this a trend?
For years I have called these Magic Racks "dead ball pattern racking gadgets". This is good for the game?
 

bb9ball

Registered
Bob, you are right. He used a 'purposeful pattern.' So, I wonder why a pro is not called on it? Are other players doing this, is this a trend?

Copied from rules you provided link to:

2.2 Nine Ball Rack

The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a diamond shape, with the one ball at the
apex of the diamond and on the foot spot and the nine ball in the middle of the diamond. The
other balls will be placed in the diamond without purposeful or intentional pattern.

Also, would you catch it if they only did it occasionally, to get ahead or on the hill? I doubt I would.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
...and the foul if the dilly dialing fails to get the rack in on time?
humm,
I should of ask and meant, what the penalty is?
breaker racks their own?
delinquent rack'r sure as hell doesn't get the break?!
...maybe, the delinquent rack'r now found to be inept to rack properly,
must bend over and place the money ball only on the spot for the breaker to get one time shot at the win,
a miss? ...starts the game over and the delinquent rack'r is accessed an addition race to be won for the match win?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
humm,
I should of ask and meant, what the penalty is?
breaker racks their own?
delinquent rack'r sure as hell doesn't get the break?!
...maybe, the delinquent rack'r now found to be inept to rack properly,
must bend over and place the money ball only on the spot for the breaker to get one time shot at the win,
a miss? ...starts the game over and the delinquent rack'r is accessed an addition race to be won for the match win?

If the racker is too inept to rack in this manner they are probably a closet cheater.

They get slapped in the face with a wet mackerel and have to push on their first shot of that rack...even if their first shot is on the nine ball and it is a hanger.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
For years I have called these Magic Racks "dead ball pattern racking gadgets". This is good for the game?
those paper racks do give a solid tight rack,
myself, I call it foul if I'm the player coming in on a lousy dry break and that dam piece of paper is my line of fire.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If the racker is too inept to rack in this manner they are probably a closet cheater.

They get slapped in the face with a wet mackerel and have to push on their first shot of that rack...even if their first shot is on the nine ball and it is a hanger.
..ummm,

reasonable,
you rack.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
About pro players and the rack....

A few years ago I was one of the referees in the US Open 9-Ball when it was in Norfolk. They were using a template and racking with the 9 on the spot to avoid a dead wing ball -- or at least make it much less likely. The breaker was racking for himself. Pattern racking was forbidden as explained in the players' meeting. The refs were told to come to the table only when requested to call a shot. Each ref had 6 tables to watch.

So.... I'm seated and idly watching the table nearest me where two fairly well-known US players are playing. One of them is obviously pattern racking. The other one says nothing. Instead he is manipulating the back ball when he racks to make the wing ball dead again. The manipulator won.

On another table, Ralf Souquet is playing against a different manipulator. On the manipulator's first break, the wing ball flies straight into the corner pocket. Ralf goes up to him and quietly says, "Don't do that anymore. That's no good." The manipulator stopped doing it.
 

surlytempo

Member
About pro players and the rack....

A few years ago I was one of the referees in the US Open 9-Ball when it was in Norfolk. They were using a template and racking with the 9 on the spot to avoid a dead wing ball -- or at least make it much less likely. The breaker was racking for himself. Pattern racking was forbidden as explained in the players' meeting. The refs were told to come to the table only when requested to call a shot. Each ref had 6 tables to watch.

So.... I'm seated and idly watching the table nearest me where two fairly well-known US players are playing. One of them is obviously pattern racking. The other one says nothing. Instead he is manipulating the back ball when he racks to make the wing ball dead again. The manipulator won.

On another table, Ralf Souquet is playing against a different manipulator. On the manipulator's first break, the wing ball flies straight into the corner pocket. Ralf goes up to him and quietly says, "Don't do that anymore. That's no good." The manipulator stopped doing it.
Bless Ralf Souquet. Such a class act. thanks for the story Bob!
 

Island Drive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’ve seen this discussed before and I’m curious what the game would end up being like if this became normalized. I think safety breaks would become fairly standard since pushing out has you at a disadvantage. Do you think it would ruin the game? YES it does pretty much solve the issue everyone has with racks. No more needing to rack with the 9 on the spot, or add a break box, or require that two balls pass the headstring (a silly rule IMO), and likely less time players spend on racking or arguing about the rack, etc. I’m not sure if I’m for it though. What are your thoughts?
Predictability in sports is never Good ''for the sport'' or good for the business model. One things for sure in 9 ball. When your in dead punch you win!
 
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