Do you use an aiming system or go by feel?

[ENGLISH!]

If you were a user you wouldn't ask that question. Try learning a little before discussing and acting like a know it all.

Well, since he has not really answered it, why don't you answer for him, since it appears that you too think you can read the minds of others, or at least Stan's.

 

[Neil]

Well, since it is VERY OBVIOUS that you are here in a discussion forum with NO intention to discuss anything actually related regarding the subject & only want to make 'blanket' 'marketing' statements, Until you are willing to discuss, I would suggest that EVERYONE ignore you.

Best Wishes.

Nah, you never attack anyone on here.

Why are YOU here? You don't know the system, you don't, can't, and haven't used the system, you only parrot what others say and then go off on tangents that make sense only to you, yet you feel like you are some kind of authority on the system. ???? At least 1 out 10 posts in a multi-thousand post thread are yours, and you have added nothing but nonsense and attacks. Yet, somehow, you sit there feeling all proud and intelligent.?? And you actually have the audacity to state that the guy that knows more about CTE than any living human should be ignored when talking about CTE. WOW! When it comes to who people should listen to, you fall somewhere below Marty Herman.

No matter how many people tell you to stop posting, you keep on because in your little mind it makes you to be somebody. You never even see just how foolish you really look on here.

 

[JB Cases]

And for that hard work, we thank you.

100% agree. Thank you Stan. And especially thank you for continuing to try and help people improve their skill in the face a small group of knockers.

Nothing has changed!

The visuals and the foundational 1/2 tip pivot have remained constant. I have spent the past 5 years studying the visual nature of CTE from full stance to final aim within the context of the visuals and the pivot.

My goal has always been to understand everything related to that initial framework. There are lots of ways to close that 1/2 tip gap. I Know the optimal way to close the gap and all that is involved visually and physically and that does NOT mean that the system has changed.

It just means that I worked the fire out of it......to understand every detail that is humanly possible for this mind.

Stan Shuffett

Yes you did and you continue despite the vile things people like Lou and Pat and others have said about you and to. Thank you!

There is a tremendous amount of real professional information in my posts this morning.

The search for how to really play the game can be found just beside CCB. It took me more than 50 years to learn that because no one knew how to advance it in the right way.

Well, contrary to what you think, I am unloading some real jewels here and I will never stop unloading CTE on the world.......it would be way to selfish to keep what I have come to know for myself.

Stan Shuffett

We are right beside you.

Ahhhh....

Don't let John Barton hear you say that.

Every method does that in some form or another.

Is CTE perhaps better in that regard, at least for some? Quite possibly so & that is what PJ, others, & I have been saying ALL along.

But that concept has been vehemently 'attacked'.

Is a meeting of minds possible here?

Best Wishes.

you have no idea what he actually said.

Perhaps with CTE, I can find feel via objectivity or objectivity via feel. That'd be pretty special wouldn't it? Perhaps at cte's highest level there is a merging of the two.

Stan Shuffett

Could very well be, a way to aim that hones feel to a razor sharp edge.

John,

Do you think that subjective & subconscious analysis & application ONLY happens once on is down on the shot?

Good Morning, by the way.

No, but what I do know is that the subconscious is unknown by it's definition. So for all the armchair psychiartrists here trying to explain CTE with a blanket "the subconscious corrected it" notion is not only too broad but it's way out of your area of expertise and not backed up by any sort of research involving aiming in pool.

Drawing CTE out is fruitless. I will gladly show it to you at a table in a way that you can experience it in a very short time.

CTE is about learning 4 perceptions that can not be penciled out on paper. CTE is visual.
CTE is a vision thing and the body follows in the form of an ever so slightly angled cue. The value of angling one's cue compared to the visual value of CTE is practically nothing.

Stan Shuffett

This is 100% true. I have been in pool rooms for 35 years and never once have I demanded of an instructor, pro player or anyone else that they diagram anything on the pool table before I would accept their instruction or try what they wanted to show me.

Nor have I ever seen any beginner demand to see the math behind ghost ball before trying it. I mean this is all so simple, just get on the table and ask for help if you don't understand the steps.

It is no easy task to assign correct language for what occurs in CTE.

It is an even harder task to assign math for what is occurring in CTE. I am unsure if any absolute math will ever emerge. That does not matter!

What really matters at this point is that, FORTUNATELY, language can covey all that one needs to know in order to experience and use CTE at a table.

Stan Shuffett

Yes it does. The student must CARE enough to spend the time to understand what the terms mean so that the language used makes sense but the language does accurately convey what needs to be done to apply the method correctly.

I am speaking of what happens at the pro level and you can refer to my presentations of BASIC CTE for the answers you seek. Or I can show you at a table in a matter of minutes.

What you are going to do is pass through this life and wake up one day and kick yourself in your hindend for missing out on CTE.

Stan Shuffett

I think you're wrong. I think that Rick is NOT a true student of the game and he will never realize what he has failed to understand.

That's you arguing with yourself again. I don't recall anybody but you suggesting the subconscious is infallible. Feel players miss all the time, just like you.


Maybe it's the only thing that can trigger it for you... others don't necessarily share your limitations.

pj
chgo

Ok. At least I don't have to fidget on every shot like you do. I hope I find the video of you fidget aiming and I will post it for Dan to analyze. And I will post it on my own server so you can't whine to YouTube about it.

CTE is a powerful objective visual system and it can be learned. PERIOD.

The crusade to stop CTE actually aids in propelling it forward.

Stan Shuffett

Exactly. They don't understand that they more they knock the more people who go and watch the videos and see it working and who want to learn it.

I added a PS to my last post.

I'm NOT trying to stop anyone from trying whatever they wish in an effort to play better. They should just do so knowing full well what it is that they will be buying & trying.

Your first statement here (that put in blue) is merely your opinion. It is one that logical, rational, critical thinking along with some rather simple science would indicate to be incorrect. MIC DROP. SLAM DUNK. TAKE IT TO THE BANK.

Enough with the science. You know as much about science and critical thinking as Dora the Explorer knows about navigation. IF you were a truly critical thinker instead of just a critic you would go find out where the claimed holes in CTE are and present them. But you can't and so all you have is an endless supply of empty words.

Pot...meet Kettle

Exactly. English and Duckie agreeing on anything pool related is like Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder teaching people to aim.

Sorry, you can not get CTE.....better said would be...YOU do not want to get CTE.

And I do not care one bit whether you get CTE or not....Every year more and more players get CTE and nothing that you will ever say or do can stop the growth of CTE from happening around the world.

Stan Shuffett

This is what they don't get Stan. The more they knock the more people want to try it and see what the fuss is about. Not to mention they are being outmoved on YouTube by the count of hundreds of thousands of views to none.

Still waiting for that proof you've never given. :thumbup:

It's all over YouTube. Show us you can bank like Stan before you knock his method. Oh you can't, sucks to suck and not have the mental ability to understand how to get as good as he is. I will pay you $100 to show me videos of you duplicating Stan's banking videos. Should be easy right?

"The real math" didn't have to "emerge"; it has existed since long before any of us were born - this ain't rocket surgery.

It shows that "the perceptual phenomenon of CTE" is feel.

pj <- not that there's anything wrong with that
chgo

Right a system that reduces feel to within less than a mm. Better than the fidget method of guessing you use. Room owners must hate the way you wear out the cloth when you constantly move your bridge hand around searching for the right aim. You have however learned to make that work for you and I get why you need to defend it.

I agree.
There's nothing wrong with feel either, its really the big part of every shot.
Well... unless your a robot.

Then why do you have aiming systems that you claim to use?

 

[KRJ]

Nah, you never attack anyone on here.

Why are YOU here? You don't know the system, you don't, can't, and haven't used the system, you only parrot what others say and then go off on tangents that make sense only to you, yet you feel like you are some kind of authority on the system. ???? At least 1 out 10 posts in a multi-thousand post thread are yours, and you have added nothing but nonsense and attacks. Yet, somehow, you sit there feeling all proud and intelligent.?? And you actually have the audacity to state that the guy that knows more about CTE than any living human should be ignored when talking about CTE. WOW! When it comes to who people should listen to, you fall somewhere below Marty Herman.

No matter how many people tell you to stop posting, you keep on because in your little mind it makes you to be somebody. You never even see just how foolish you really look on here.

Not to mention he won't tell us about his vast experience, or even post himself playing pool. Yet, he wants to pretend to be the AZB expert on everything to protect folks from taking lessons in pool...should not the folks know about his credentials if they want to take him seriously. I mean, how do they know he knows what he's talking about? Fair is fair, right.

Or, what's the expression, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt about your 46 years experience". LMAO

 

[Zphix]

I'm not sure how a brain diseases that progressively worsens over times puts you on the correct shot line, I'm also not sure why anyone would pay for it...?

CTE = Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy according to my Psych/Human Bio classes.

:thumbup:

Couldn't resist.

 

[cookie man]

Of what scientific theory are you referring?

The one you brought up

 

[cookie man]

Well, since he has not really answered it, why don't you answer for him, since it appears that you too think you can read the minds of others, or at least Stan's.

Like I said. Learn the system or don't ask silly question.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

JB Cases:
...a system that reduces feel to within less than a mm.

You keep saying this like you think it means something, Inigo.

1mm on the surface of the CB = almost 1/2" (at least 15 degrees difference in cut angle) per foot of CB travel.

Just about any player is that accurate without any aiming instruction.

You need a new meme.

pj
chgo

 

[cookie man]

Not to mention he won't tell us about his vast experience, or even post himself playing pool. Yet, he wants to pretend to be the AZB expert on everything to protect folks from taking lessons in pool...should not the folks know about his credentials if they want to take him seriously. I mean, how do they know he knows what he's talking about? Fair is fair, right.

Or, what's the expression, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt about your 46 years experience". LMAO

And with all that experience the best player in his local pool hall uses CTE. Maybe that's where the hate comes from, he can't beat the guy.

 

[DTL]

..................

 

[ENGLISH!]

And with all that experience the best player in his local pool hall uses CTE. Maybe that's where the hate comes from, he can't beat the guy.

Another misstatement, or incomplete statement that perhaps is meant, intended, to be misleading.

He, occasionally uses it & says, in fact almost yelled, that its has holes. He could well use it to confirm an incorrect line.

 

[Neil]

Another misstatement, or incomplete statement that perhaps is meant, intended, to be misleading.

He, occasionally uses it & says, it fact almost yelled that its has holes. He could well use it to confirm an incorrect line.

Yep, it has holes. 6 of them. And balls keep on going into them. :rotflmao::rotflmao:

 

[ENGLISH!]

You don't understand how CTE works, don't care how it works, and don't feel how it works is important. You have said that a number of times, John Barton who has said that dozens of times, and many of the other CTE arguers have said it as well. The problem is that on the one hand you all say you don't understand how CTE works, and then on the other hand you turn right around and argue in the most closed minded and adamant manner possible about every last detail of how it works and doesn't work. You all obviously do care a lot about the mechanism by which it works for you otherwise you wouldn't be so militant in your need to argue how it works even when you admit not knowing. Surely you see how it makes no sense to say you don't understand it on the one hand, and then argue every last detail about it with someone on the other. Surely you see how it makes no sense to say you don't care how it works, and then be absolutely and completely unwilling to even consider the possibility that you might be subconsciously adjusting for an inaccurate system regardless of the evidence.

When it is convenient for the CTE arguers, you admit you don't understand how CTE works. When someone asks questions you don't have answers to, or wants more detail where descriptions of the steps are vague, or wants proof of anything like that it objectively finds the correct aim/shot line or of anything else, the response from your side is all too often "CTE can't be proven to work as claimed and I don't understand how it works and it isn't important how it works and I don't care, all I know is it works for me and that is all that is important". But when someone is showing mathematical proof on paper or through explanation that it does not find the correct shot line, and that CTE users are actually adjusting by feel to make their shots just like with any other system, you and the rest suddenly become experts who fully understand every last detail of the system and will argue vehemently against any possibility of subconscious adjustment.

So which is it? Do you fully understand it or not? Do you care how it works or not? Here is the answer and give this some serious internal soul searching before replying back with the knee jerk argument that every pore of your being will reflexively want to make. You all don't understand how it works, otherwise you would never say you didn't understand if you did. Plus you would be able to answer those tough questions if you did. Of course you don't understand how or why it works and have said so many,many times. You also do care how it works--a lot. A whole lot. Like a WHOLE LOT. But why is that? Because you will feel stupid if you actually have to accept to yourself that you were just subconsciously adjusting for everything the whole time. So your ego makes you have a closed mind about that and makes you need to have to argue against that vehemently, in the hopes that nobody believes you were subconsciously adjusting and will think to themselves "look how dumb those guys were", and so you don't have to accept it yourself and feel like "man how dumb was I to have just been using feel all along and adjusting and never even realizing it". But it shouldn't be something to be embarrassed about or ashamed about or to feel stupid about. We all do things subconsciously that we don't realize, and often, and it's just part of being human. But ego just won't let you guys look at the evidence and the facts without that bias.

The truth of the matter is that you and the rest of the CTE arguers/users don't understand the system, and it isn't important to you how it works as long as it isn't subconscious adjustments you are making that corrected for the system's inaccuracies. Ego is why you can never accept subconscious adjustment and is why you are so compelled to argue that which you admit to not understanding. It is misplaced ego though. Again, not consciously realizing something you are doing subconsciously doesn't make you an idiot, it makes you human, and there is no shame in being human. On the other hand, ignoring facts and evidence because of your ego displays a lack of ability to utilize critical thinking skills, and that level of willful bias is something that actually is shameful though IMO because that is something we have a lot more if not total control over.

This is simply a case of reflexively fighting against something simply because it isn't the way you would want it to be (because you are afraid it will make you look and feel silly) instead of just searching for the truth without bias and with an open mind whether you will hate the answer you arrive at or not. Seriously, do some real soul searching on this and ask yourself honestly why it is so important to you that it doesn't turn out to be subconscious adjustment. If it was really true when you guys all say "who cares how it works as long as it works" then it wouldn't matter to you if the reason was subconscious adjustment, but yet it does matter to you all a lot (it shouldn't, and so the question to ask yourself is why does it, and in that answer lies the cause of your biases).

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

For all of those against logical critical rational thinking.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I realize you meant practical level, and everything I said was written with that in mind and was perfectly applicable. I will rephrase the exact same thing a different way. You don't know how or why it works, and on a practical level you don't care. Your bias created by your need to not look or feel stupid for the subconscious adjustments out weighs and over rules your intellectual desire to know the truth about what is happening.

All the evidence, every bit of it, and it is extensive, supports CTE having incorrect shot lines corrected with subconscious adjustments. Even just the portion of the evidence you personally are able to understand and do understand all supports it. Yet your bias simply just won't let you accept it. Denial is a supremely powerful weapon of self protection capable of ignoring all fact and evidence in order to protect us from something negative we perceive might happen such as public humiliation and intense disappointment in ourselves and the resulting feelings of inadequacy due to how easily we were fooled by something (whether these things would or should happen or not).

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

More for all of you guys.

 

[ENGLISH!]

All the math you will ever need is right there in my post you quoted. Hint: Start off by counting how many unique objective cut angles CTE Pro 1 produces. To ensure you aren't counting fake angles you can only manufacture with subjective feel adjustments, make sure you are able to give a full detailed description of all the CTE steps to achieve a cut angle before counting it. Detailed means no two people could possibly do it any differently if everybody were trying to follow your instructions. How many unique objective cut angles that you can fully explain all the steps to exactly reproduce it in detail (and where everyone else could exactly reproduce it) did you come up with?

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

For those that want 'the math'.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Gettin ugly

 

[ENGLISH!]

Gettin ugly

I hope you were not referring to me.

If so, could you please explain how so?

 

[8pack]

Then why do you have aiming systems that you claim to use?

I do use systems(mostly one)...after learning your shaft and outside center cb pocketing which will require you to learn to deal with speed and distance. After gaining knowledge from practicing you will get a good understanding on your starting point on all shots. (this would be the connection) You connect and let go and feel your way into the shot, well thats what i do. I start out thick mostly and either spin or deflect from the thick location...yes i know its all wrong according to cte standards.

Besides stroke issues the only thing i ever think when i miss is, I didnt move to the right location do to speed. You ever have that thought with your system?

 

[Mr. Wilson]

Stay on topic and keep it civil or there will be consequences.

 

[JB Cases]

You keep saying this like you think it means something, Inigo.

1mm on the surface of the CB = almost 1/2" (at least 15 degrees difference in cut angle) per foot of CB travel.

Just about any player is that accurate without any aiming instruction.

You need a new meme.

pj
chgo

I said LESS than 1mm. I was mistaken. I meant less than .5mm and really the average for distance between the CTE line and the actual but unknown shot line AT THE BACK OF THE CUE BALL is .25mm

Here is the chart.

The image is to scale to show what a 13mm tip looks like against the difference from the KNOWN CTE line and the unknown shot line. So by using the KNOWN and EASY TO FIND CTE line PLUS a secondary aiming line to the 15/30/45 A/B/C points the shooter is led from the KNOWN CTE Line to the actual shot line which is in reality just a tiny movement away from the CTE line.