Guy Manges
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Is Doc Dave's work now the future of A.I. pool ?
Doc Dave's Work ?
- Thread starter Guy Manges
- Start date
I tried it.
Query: In the style of Dr. Dave, describe the effects of throw, deflection, and curve in pool.
Answer:
“Sure, I'd be happy to describe the effects of throw, deflection, and curve in pool in the style of Dr. Dave.
Throw, deflection, and curve are all important concepts in pool that can affect the trajectory of the cue ball and object ball, and thus have a
significant impact on aiming.
Throw occurs when the cue ball and object ball come into contact, causing the object ball to deflect slightly off its intended path. This is due to the friction between the balls, which causes the object ball to move in the opposite direction to the direction of the cue ball's spin. This effect can be particularly pronounced when using sidespin or english. To compensate for throw, pool players need to adjust their aim and hit the cue ball with a slightly offset position relative to the object ball.
Deflection, also known as squirt or cue ball deflection, is caused by the off-center hit of the cue ball by the cue tip. This can cause the cue ball to deflect off its intended path, particularly when using sidespin or applying english. This deflection can be particularly noticeable when using a cue with a low deflection shaft. To compensate for deflection, pool players need to adjust their aim and use a cue with a high or low deflection shaft depending on their playing style.
Curve, also known as swerve or spin-induced curve, is caused by the spin applied to the cue ball. When a cue ball is struck with spin, it can curve in one direction or another, depending on the direction and amount of spin. This effect can be particularly useful for potting balls around obstacles or for controlling the cue ball's path. To compensate for curve, pool players need to adjust their aim and/or use a different amount of spin to achieve the desired effect.
All of these effects require pool players to have a deep understanding of the physics of the game, as well as excellent hand-eye coordination and a high level of skill. Pool players must learn to account for throw, deflection, and curve, as well as other variables such as speed, angle, and spin, to master the art of aiming in pool.
I aim to swerve.
”
ok I admit to adding that last line.
Query: In the style of Dr. Dave, describe the effects of throw, deflection, and curve in pool.
Answer:
“Sure, I'd be happy to describe the effects of throw, deflection, and curve in pool in the style of Dr. Dave.
Throw, deflection, and curve are all important concepts in pool that can affect the trajectory of the cue ball and object ball, and thus have a
significant impact on aiming.
Throw occurs when the cue ball and object ball come into contact, causing the object ball to deflect slightly off its intended path. This is due to the friction between the balls, which causes the object ball to move in the opposite direction to the direction of the cue ball's spin. This effect can be particularly pronounced when using sidespin or english. To compensate for throw, pool players need to adjust their aim and hit the cue ball with a slightly offset position relative to the object ball.
Deflection, also known as squirt or cue ball deflection, is caused by the off-center hit of the cue ball by the cue tip. This can cause the cue ball to deflect off its intended path, particularly when using sidespin or applying english. This deflection can be particularly noticeable when using a cue with a low deflection shaft. To compensate for deflection, pool players need to adjust their aim and use a cue with a high or low deflection shaft depending on their playing style.
Curve, also known as swerve or spin-induced curve, is caused by the spin applied to the cue ball. When a cue ball is struck with spin, it can curve in one direction or another, depending on the direction and amount of spin. This effect can be particularly useful for potting balls around obstacles or for controlling the cue ball's path. To compensate for curve, pool players need to adjust their aim and/or use a different amount of spin to achieve the desired effect.
All of these effects require pool players to have a deep understanding of the physics of the game, as well as excellent hand-eye coordination and a high level of skill. Pool players must learn to account for throw, deflection, and curve, as well as other variables such as speed, angle, and spin, to master the art of aiming in pool.
I aim to swerve.
”ok I admit to adding that last line.
I tried it.
Query: In the style of Dr. Dave, describe the effects of throw, deflection, and curve in pool.
Answer:
“Sure, I'd be happy to describe the effects of throw, deflection, and curve in pool in the style of Dr. Dave.
Throw, deflection, and curve are all important concepts in pool that can affect the trajectory of the cue ball and object ball, and thus have a
significant impact on aiming.
Throw occurs when the cue ball and object ball come into contact, causing the object ball to deflect slightly off its intended path. This is due to the friction between the balls, which causes the object ball to move in the opposite direction to the direction of the cue ball's spin. This effect can be particularly pronounced when using sidespin or english. To compensate for throw, pool players need to adjust their aim and hit the cue ball with a slightly offset position relative to the object ball.
Deflection, also known as squirt or cue ball deflection, is caused by the off-center hit of the cue ball by the cue tip. This can cause the cue ball to deflect off its intended path, particularly when using sidespin or applying english. This deflection can be particularly noticeable when using a cue with a low deflection shaft. To compensate for deflection, pool players need to adjust their aim and use a cue with a high or low deflection shaft depending on their playing style.
Curve, also known as swerve or spin-induced curve, is caused by the spin applied to the cue ball. When a cue ball is struck with spin, it can curve in one direction or another, depending on the direction and amount of spin. This effect can be particularly useful for potting balls around obstacles or for controlling the cue ball's path. To compensate for curve, pool players need to adjust their aim and/or use a different amount of spin to achieve the desired effect.
All of these effects require pool players to have a deep understanding of the physics of the game, as well as excellent hand-eye coordination and a high level of skill. Pool players must learn to account for throw, deflection, and curve, as well as other variables such as speed, angle, and spin, to master the art of aiming in pool.
I aim to swerve.
ok I admit to adding that last line.
Not bad for a computer. I particularly liked the last line until you told us you had to add it.
When did he become Doc Dave? Seriously, though, by the time he's done, he'll have had a Pat-Flemingesque impact on the game. Before Pat, there was little to no footage of the elite in competition. Dave is having a similar impact on cataloguing and preserving pool's underlying theory and he might just earn a place in the BCA Hall of Fame one day.
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What do you think about it's attempt to replicate your formula? What did it leave off?
I went to an elite college that was entirely open-book. The school used two excuses:: a) when you are working for real, you will have access to all the engineering books you need to get your job done; and b) if you take time looking up the book answer for each test question, you will not be able to finish.
But this coming out of an AI program is going to make closed book tests and all homework assignments at all grades (above 3rd grade) superfluous.
But, perhaps it is time that we create new ways of teaching kinds the information they need to be productive members of society in the post-computer (every body has one and they are all connected to the internet) era.
And maybe, somewhere in that education, we can teach civics (or at least how to hold you head up and look a people eye-to-eye again during a conversation)
It is true: those of us who don't know jack shit about anything are going to engineer the errors out of the know it alls!
Like a lot of AI-generated stuff, on the surface it sounds and looks good; but on closer inspection, it is full of errors and not very useful.
First of all, the curved trajectory is called swerve or massé, not squirt. Squirt (AKA CB deflection) is something entirely different.
The statement about the "rotational motion" is wrong. During swerve, there are frictional forces at the bottom of the ball, so angular momentum of the ball is not conserved!
The formula seems reasonable "qualitatively," but it is useless if you want to actually calculate CB trajectories, especially if you don't know what value to use for "k."
The simple Coriolis formula (Equation 8 in TP A.19 – Massé shot aiming method, and curved cue ball paths) is much simpler and more useful since it can be used visually at the table to actually aim swerve and massé shots per the info and demonstrations here:
That's been my experience in fields outside of billiards. ChatGPT can produce accurate looking formulas (or source code) but which all fail upon any amount of inspection. It is a master of language and syntax, but that has nothing to do with accuracy.
Guy Manges
Registered
Please, No offense Dr. Dave, I see what you and yours do as a must, Also it scares me to think that someday with your knowledge AI will out preform us humans in all all pool games, I'm sure that you must have given this matter much thought... ? Will AI or is AI replacing the ghost as we speak... Guy
AI for deciding game strategy, shot choice, and shot parameters for accuracy and good CB control, and a playing robot that can actually play pool at a world-class level, are two different things. Both things will take a long time and a ton of money to develop to the point of reaching human level (especially humans like Efren). The robot part, with accurate vision and 3D perception under non-ideal lighting, and the ability to create a wide range of cue speeds, and the ability to maneuver around the table and form a stance/bridge (if necessary) with good reach, and the ability to stroke accurately is a much tougher (and extremely expensive) problem.
ChatGPT apparently hasn't seen my new resource page yet:
I suspect it will find it eventually.
While I was serving as teaching assistant for a course in organic chemistry, a course with a reputation for a lot of memorization, one student started one of the classes by complaining to the professor that they shouldn’t have to memorize so many facts. They just wanted to learn principles. The student was fairly worked up over it and went on quite a bit longer. The professor replied, “If you don’t have any facts in your head, then what the hell do you think about all day?” He closed the book and left. End of lecture.