Does a Short Ferrule really make a differnce

Geosnookery

Active member
No idea. I’ve never changed a ferule on a cue. I change cue about every 14 years so no idea how a ferule could be isolated as a variable. I’d ‘guess ‘ a tip would be changed when the ferule was. How can one be sure the difference wasnt the tip?

I’m amazed how many have powers to discern such subtle differences. I’ll just never achieve that level of awareness in billiards.
 

tomatoetom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Same here.

The best I ever played was with my Richard Black that he made for me in 1978. Of course, I was a couple years younger then.

Ebony 4-pointer with four veneers. Looked just like a Balabushka and was built with the same tapers. I had him make it at 21 ounces, with two 14mm shafts with 1" ivory ferrules.
I used to love 14mm shafts
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to love 14mm shafts
I had a new one made for my old A. E. Schmidt Titlist conversion when I sent the cue to Scot Sherbine to be refinished a couple of years ago. It is the top shaft. I had the cue made in 1973 and the other two shafts are the original shafts.

I call it my Elephant Gun.


77709C69-1A67-43FB-B0E4-C101F160F6E6.jpeg
57C33C79-15E0-4FD1-A7D2-23BCF1F6278B.jpeg
 
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dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I see these low deflection shafts that have a short ferrule on it. I personally like the look of a long ferrule. Like Meucci shafts , but does the short ferrule really make that much difference. Does it help the shaft be more low deflection. A Cue maker told me he only uses short ferrules. Why ?

Anything you can do to make the end of the shaft lighter (e.g., using a smaller ferrule) reduces CB deflection. For more info, see:


And LD shafts do offer advantages:

 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
every time you change something that will affect how you shoot, you have to relearn things.

and under pressure you likely will revert to your old tried and true way of hitting balls. and that may be costly.

and just because you reduce some deflection doesn't mean that it will make you shoot better.
with enough hard practice it might but enough practice will make you play better anyway.
 

smoochie

NotLikeThis
The heavier the weight at the end of the cue, the more deflection you get. Most ferrules are made of something heavier than the wood that was taken off the cue in order to install the ferrule.

Shorter = lighter
Lighter = less deflection
You say if the cue heavier in the end of cue it adds more deflection.

How about if the cue is heavier in the mid-section of the cue, does this also add more deflection? What I am trying to ask is this and hopefully someone might have the answer to it.

If you have a p3 butt and a revo 12.4 shaft, you screw these together and test deflection.
Then you add a balance rite in the middle which adds more weight to the middle section of the cue and makes the cue a little forward balance, then test deflection again, will this add more deflection to the cue or less deflection or the same?
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
You say if the cue heavier in the end of cue it adds more deflection.

How about if the cue is heavier in the mid-section of the cue, does this also add more deflection? What I am trying to ask is this and hopefully someone might have the answer to it.

If you have a p3 butt and a revo 12.4 shaft, you screw these together and test deflection.
Then you add a balance rite in the middle which adds more weight to the middle section of the cue and makes the cue a little forward balance, then test deflection again, will this add more deflection to the cue or less deflection or the same?

Assuming everything else (CB speed, type and amount of spin, cue elevation, etc.) is the same in the comparison, the CB deflection should be no different with changes beyond about 8" from the tip. For more info, see:


However, if you use the same stroke speed with each cue, the cue with the added mass will deliver more speed to the CB which will delay the swerve and increase the net CB deflection. See: CB deflection speed effects.
 

smoochie

NotLikeThis
Assuming everything else (CB speed, type and amount of spin, cue elevation, etc.) is the same in the comparison, the CB deflection should be no different with changes beyond about 8" from the tip. For more info, see:


However, if you use the same stroke speed with each cue, the cue with the added mass will deliver more speed to the CB which will delay the swerve and increase the net CB deflection. See: CB deflection speed effects.
Yes, so same speed and same stroke the cue with the balance rite will produce more cueball deflection "Net deflection", would be nice to actually test this in the real world "Real life experiment" but sadly I don't have any mid-section adapter yet, but I am thinking of buying one.

Speaking of which, Dave you do have the exact example that I said, a p3 butt & Revo with the balance rite. With that in mind and during coronavirus where all people staying at home, this is just an idea to make a video that might interest people to view, how about as a suggestion making this into a video, test deflection without mid-section extension, only p3 and a Revo, then test again with mid-section balance rite and p3 and Revo, then again test with end-butt extension with p3 and Revo, maybe a nice video addition for your channel.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Assuming everything else (CB speed, type and amount of spin, cue elevation, etc.) is the same in the comparison, the CB deflection should be no different with changes beyond about 8" from the tip. For more info, see:


However, if you use the same stroke speed with each cue, the cue with the added mass will deliver more speed to the CB which will delay the swerve and increase the net CB deflection. See: CB deflection speed effects.
Yes, so same speed and same stroke the cue with the balance rite will produce more cueball deflection "Net deflection"

... but the shot is different if you use the same cue speed with a heavier cue. The CB speed is what counts. The net CB deflection will be the same for the same shot (based on CB spin and speed). When I first added my joint extender, I was over-hitting everything a little. I needed to learn to use a little less stroke on everything. It didn't take me long to adjust.



Speaking of which, Dave you do have the exact example that I said, a p3 butt & Revo with the balance rite. With that in mind and during coronavirus where all people staying at home, this is just an idea to make a video that might interest people to view, how about as a suggestion making this into a video, test deflection without mid-section extension, only p3 and a Revo, then test again with mid-section balance rite and p3 and Revo, then again test with end-butt extension with p3 and Revo, maybe a nice video addition for your channel.

I will consider it, but I don't expect any difference with or without the extender for a shot of given CB direction, spin, and speed.
 

smoochie

NotLikeThis
I will consider it, but I don't expect any difference with or without the extender for a shot of given CB direction, spin, and speed.

Only a real test will prove this. Of course it's your channel it's completely up to you but I personally believe some people do a search/look for this before buying into extensions, either a back extension or mid-extension.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I will consider it, but I don't expect any difference with or without the extender for a shot of given CB direction, spin, and speed.
Only a real test will prove this. Of course it's your channel it's completely up to you but I personally believe some people do a search/look for this before buying into extensions, either a back extension or mid-extension.

The science is very clear on this, but tests are always good to demonstrate the science. FYI, I've done lots of tests already with the science. See the info, article links, and videos on the endmass, what causes squirt, and squirt robot test results pages.
 

9ballscorpion

Active member
The Meucci ferrule you like is an illusion. It is very thin and drilled all the way through, it's really lite. The tip is glued on the end grain of the shaft. It is in fact almost like no ferrule at all.

It does not appear to be all that thin.

Meucci FERMEU Ferrule | Billiard Bay (thebilliardbay.com)

I once played with a Ferruless (no ferrule shaft) shaft, which is popular among LD shafts, and I hated the hit. It was bu far the hardest hitting shaft that I ever played with, and I got rid of it ASAP.

So, I think that the longer the ferrule, the softer the hit. The older Meucci ferrules looked to be super long, and those shafts hit amazing, in my opinion. I could put so much crazy spin on the cue ball.
 

9ballscorpion

Active member
Check with your doctor.
There is something seriously wrong with you.

Many moons ago, Mike Massey did an exhibition at my local hall.
He had a 1/4 long ferrule. It looked so odd to me.
He explained he liked it better and had less squirt.
He also had a conical shaft. He needed that stiffness in the middle for his insane stroke shots.

Conical shafts, with really short ferrules is what Snooker players use, and I understand why they hit so stiff. It is that short ferrule, Ash wood, and the Conical taper.

I recall how stiff the original Predator Z shaft hit. It had a Conical taper, with a very short ferrule. That shaft was unplayable, in my case. I could not play with it, because it hit so stiff.
 

Thunder Thighs

learning daily...
Silver Member
I recall how stiff the original Predator Z shaft hit. It had a Conical taper, with a very short ferrule. That shaft was unplayable, in my case. I could not play with it, because it hit so stiff.
I had the same opinion about the original Z 12 years ago. It had a medium tip on it. Last year I installed a soft tip on it and it feels just fine to play with. I think my preference in feel has changed over the years.
 

ChrisSjoblom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Take it from somebody that's been working with a short ferrule all his life, the difference it makes mostly depends on who you're playing with. ;)
 
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