does a time come when the answer is practice not lessons??
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
I agree, absolutely. But lessons cost money so we are not likely to over take lessons. However the bigger problem I think is over buying books and over reading. I think the best approach is to develop a specific training plan and follow it. I'm doing that now but I've fallen many times over the years into a form of analysis paralysis. Buy a good book, practice some things from it, get distracted with another good book, practice some things from it, wash and repeat.
BTW, pool and chess are very similar here. During my 15 year hiatus from pool, I studied chess for several years in the 90's. In chess there are many different things you can allocate your limited hours per week to: openings (classic King pawn openings, classic Queen pawn openings, modern openings...), middle game, end game, tactics, studying past master games, studying example positions, etc. It's easy for a chess player (e.g. me) to find myself bouncing between all these topics instead of setting up a structured training plan. Pool is the same.
I was talking with Bert Kinister about the 8-Ball Bible, which many on AZ, myself included, consider very good. He scoffed and said "Geez, in the time it would take you to memorize all of that you could be hitting a lot of balls."
BTW, pool and chess are very similar here. During my 15 year hiatus from pool, I studied chess for several years in the 90's. In chess there are many different things you can allocate your limited hours per week to: openings (classic King pawn openings, classic Queen pawn openings, modern openings...), middle game, end game, tactics, studying past master games, studying example positions, etc. It's easy for a chess player (e.g. me) to find myself bouncing between all these topics instead of setting up a structured training plan. Pool is the same.
I was talking with Bert Kinister about the 8-Ball Bible, which many on AZ, myself included, consider very good. He scoffed and said "Geez, in the time it would take you to memorize all of that you could be hitting a lot of balls."
Absolutely.
Take lessons to learn what to practice, learn how to detect errors in your stroke, mechanics, strategy etc. how do develop your own practice routines and drills.
At the end of the day, you must put in the table time on your own.
Instructors can smooth the road for you and quicken your journey but it remains a journey that you must make.
I thought it was a good question.
Many of the posts I read, the vibe feels like suggestions of much more than 4 hours of lessons a year.
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I think it really depends on the player... Some players may take 4 hours work diligently for several month assimilate the info and be ready for another shot in the arm.....
Other players will take the 4 hours and rest on their morals and not put in the time or abandon the teachings and need the same 4 hours 2 years later....
Today your biggest friend is the video camera... You can submit a video here and get a priority list for the fundamental stuff... Work on it and then when you pay for your lesson it will be more meat and less potatoes...
I can video tape myself and I am sure everyone can spot what they think I need to fix...
I raise up on shots that I am taking speed off of.. Is it a bad habit if it is something I do purposely knowing that as long as I raise up online it shouldn't effect my shot?? I don't think so but I have had several instructors say it is.. I didn't solicit the advice btw...
I am sure others would note that I am inconsistent with my bridge length.
That I don't drop down on the shot line but end up moving into it from either the left or the right...
I would bet my eye patterns are not at all what they should be....
I drop my elbow to get thru the ball NOT after contact.....
My head position varies in height....
I don't use the bridge when I should or EVER.......
My PSR reveals that I have ADHD... This is blatantly obvious in that if I remember to chalk it is always after I have walked to the other side of the table and will have to walk all the way back around...
The only time I walk around and survey the table is when I remember to chalk.... See Above.....
AT this point these are all things that I know a video would reveal... Now the tough part is do I try and practice to correct them or do I take a lesson and get a game plan together for getting it done???
Well here is where the rubber hits the road... I have known all of these things for years... I have fixed none of them... IF I go practice I get to the point that none of the issues really bother me... As long as I am hitting balls every day I can play shortstop speed... If I am not hitting balls every day and only playing rarely then I think that every problem I mentioned becomes an issue to consistent play....
AT this point I likely will be looking for lessons when I get time to spend on the table again and I will not use my normal DIY approach...
After the lesson maybe the practice will get me thru to the next level for good... Lord knows I've visited it enough... Would be nice to live there.....
Chris
Lessons (unfortunately) are typically motivated by a player who has lingered on a plateau in their skills. In other words, they are practicing bad habits.
All the practice in the world won't help much if you stand inconsistently to the ball and etc. This is one reason why most lessons help most players--good teachers start with the fundamentals.
All the practice in the world won't help much if you stand inconsistently to the ball and etc. This is one reason why most lessons help most players--good teachers start with the fundamentals.
Expectations
I think a good topic to expand on is expectations. Everyone would like to get better, but are we being reasonable with our expectations on how much better we can become and how long it takes ?
How much time can each of us put towards playing and practicing ? Work, family, unexpected changes/surprises in life, etc..
Myself and my pool friends have a lot in common. We play league once or twice a week. Practice is mainly playing with friends on weekends. Lessons and tips from more experienced players from time to time.
Each of us is slowly getting better. Not as fast as we would like, but maybe about right given our other obligations.
I think a good topic to expand on is expectations. Everyone would like to get better, but are we being reasonable with our expectations on how much better we can become and how long it takes ?
How much time can each of us put towards playing and practicing ? Work, family, unexpected changes/surprises in life, etc..
Myself and my pool friends have a lot in common. We play league once or twice a week. Practice is mainly playing with friends on weekends. Lessons and tips from more experienced players from time to time.
Each of us is slowly getting better. Not as fast as we would like, but maybe about right given our other obligations.
Man, I have to agree here.
I have a table at home and practice the fundamentals and feel everyday. On Sat or Sun I like to go out and play.
What this does is open my eyes to what I have to devote more time to when practicing at home.
Feel is something that cant be taught it has to be experienced. This takes time.
Good post Randy.......thanks
John
thanks for the replies
part of the reason for the thread
was ive taken alot of lessons and they have definitely helped
my fundamentals are greatly improved....:thumbup:
but now that my fundamentals are better and i have a more repeatable ,consistent stroke
i need to practice ball layout drills,running balls,banking etc and playing people to get better.
right now i dont think another lesson will help me string racks unless its a lesson on game strategy/patterns
i do need to continue to maintain and improve my fundamenals
but right now its table time for me
thanks again to all for your input
part of the reason for the thread
was ive taken alot of lessons and they have definitely helped
my fundamentals are greatly improved....:thumbup:
but now that my fundamentals are better and i have a more repeatable ,consistent stroke
i need to practice ball layout drills,running balls,banking etc and playing people to get better.
right now i dont think another lesson will help me string racks unless its a lesson on game strategy/patterns
i do need to continue to maintain and improve my fundamenals
but right now its table time for me
thanks again to all for your input
Have you thought about giving the drills in BU (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=321301) a shot? I felt it was a pretty good test, and with practice you can easily see improvement. It also gives a good test of what areas you are weakest in.
I thought similarly for a while, and I stopped taking lessons because I did not think I could learn much more, but I was incredibly wrong. You might need a different instructor, or focus on different aspects of the game. Lets say you have perfect mechanics, how about your mental game? Safeties, cue ball control, patterns, decision making, then you have other games, if you only practice 8ball or 9ball, how about learning also one pocket or straight pool, working on your break, an instructor can help you with all that. Granted, there's a point where you will not get as much from an instructor as you did at the beginning, but at a high level knowing or not a little thing can be the difference between winning on losing a match.
Also, I've noticed that most people go and take lessons when their game is not doing so good, their thought is "I'm playing like crap, I must be doing something wrong, let me take a lesson so I can fix it". Which in itself it's something you should do, but how many of you take lessons and practice even harder when you are playing your best?
From experience, taking lessons when I'm playing my best have helped my game tremendously, you learn the good things you are already doing and try to keep them, and its really good for your mental game, you gain even more confidence.
I agree with you Larry. Your next lesson, if it were with me, would be about decision making, problem solving, and outright sparring (which is an often overlooked aspect of lessons)!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com