Does anyone actually believe GAMBLING will

SJDinPHX said:
For the record Mully, I could care less if you or anyone else chooses not to gamble. My point was, how many pool players of any stature would we have WITHOUT gambling ? Not all pool players who like to gamble are "scumbags". Boy you must have gone off a few times, to be so bitter!
Click to expand...

Sorry to intervene here but that argument is not logical. Without gambling most current players indeed may not be playing pool. That only means they are gamblers and not poolplayers first.

Regardless, there would simply be other players, of equal stature playing pool that didn't gamble but instead found other means to improve.

Gambling, used as a form of competition, will improve your game but great players aren't great because they gamble. That's a false correlation. They would be great even if they didn't choose to gamble. You insult them by implying otherwise.

Ed
 
mullyman said:
One other thing, money pressure and finals in a tournament pressure are two different beasts. I know guys that shoot lights out gambling but can't win tournaments and vice versa.
MULLY
Click to expand...


Mully-

Good point, but I think the reason is that tournament pressure is far less than gambling pressure. In my view, the two aren't even close. If you lose a tournament, you lose your entry fee (which is emotionally sent off into the wind upon paying it). When you're gambling, you're under constant heat and pressure to not lose. Each loss you take puts you deeper in the whole, which forces you to double-up to get out, etc.

That's why some poker players are really good in tournaments. They play fliers and go all-in on a flush draw knowing they're already behind in a hand; whereas, in a cash game.... calling a $500 bet is a LITTLE different knowing you have to catch up.

The two pressures are different. One pressure is definitely more than the other. The only POSSIBLE exception is if the tournament is a US Open or higher in caliber where it's "historic" if you win. Outside of that, gambling is the higher pressure--- no doubt. So, if a gambler can't win a tournament and he's a player.... it's most likely he can't get his adrenaline pumping for tournaments. It's like banging a pornstar your entire life and then later trying to date a librarian. You might need a little help and excitement to get into it.

Dave
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Mully--It's like banging a pornstar your entire life and then later trying to date a librarian. You might need a little help and excitement to get into it.

Dave
Click to expand...
I'd prefer the librarian version of the same girl. MMMMmmmmmmmmmm
 
It's been posted so I am just agreeing with someone. Gambling will not improve your skill level. You will not learn to make shots or shape because money is on the line. Only time on a practice table will maximize your abilities and skill. Now, gambling/tournament play on a regular bases will get you closer to that feeling during practice. The only difference is that hard cut down the rail you practiced... feels way better cutting it down for the $$.

When I step over a hard shot for $$, I don't think of the previous money I won on a similar shot. I think of my practice and the hundreds of times shooting it.
 
JCIN said:
Here is the thing. Everyone who is saying gambling doesnt really matter are speaking in theory. Everyone who is saying that gambling does help a player compete better can point to either personal experience or a great player who told them their story. .
Click to expand...
This is exactly right. I mean, here it is as simple as the question gets:

Question: Do you ACTUALLY believe gambling will help you become a better player?

Answers:

Player 1: I gamble when playing pool, and it's made me a better player because I am playing with intensity and pressure that I don't get when playing for nothing.

Player 2: I gamble, and it's made my game worse.

Player 3: I gamble, and I don't see any change in my game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I mean, unless a player answering this question is Player 2 or Player 3, then so far, nobody has said, "no." {edit: I see at least one who says they've gambled but still say, "no."} You actually have to gamble to qualify in answering, don't you? If not, then, as JCIN says, it's a theoretical answer only.

Fred
 
Last edited:
Jason Robichaud said:
It's been posted so I am just agreeing with someone. Gambling will not improve your skill level. You will not learn to make shots or shape because money is on the line. Only time on a practice table will maximize your abilities and skill. Now, gambling/tournament play on a regular bases will get you closer to that feeling during practice. The only difference is that hard cut down the rail you practiced... feels way better cutting it down for the $$.

When I step over a hard shot for $$, I don't think of the previous money I won on a similar shot. I think of my practice and the hundreds of times shooting it.
Click to expand...

Gambling improves your execution. If you practice a hard shot 1000x and make it 60% of the time in practice, and then you setup the same shot and I bet you $1000 that you miss it.... your odds just dropped to 30% at best no matter how much you practiced it. It's human nature.

Now, conversely, if you make that same shot 60% while betting decent money on it and I ask you to make it for fun, you might only make it 40% because your heart isn't into it.

Being a hardened gambler develops your heart. Heart makes you NOT FLINCH during a time of crisis.

Playing for funnies will never develop that... I dont care if you shoot that shot 10000x.... if the world ENDS if you miss it......AND your HEART is not developed.....the pocket will either look like a thimble or your shooting hand will feel like Michael J. Fox the millisecond before impact.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Gambling improves your execution. If you practice a hard shot 1000x and make it 60% of the time in practice, and then you setup the same shot and I bet you $1000 that you miss it.... your odds just dropped to 30% at best no matter how much you practiced it. It's human nature.

Now, conversely, if you make that same shot 60% while betting decent money on it and I ask you to make it for fun, you might only make it 40% because your heart isn't into it.

Being a hardened gambler develops your heart. Heart makes you NOT FLINCH during a time of crisis.

Playing for funnies will never develop that... I dont care if you shoot that shot 10000x.... if the world ENDS if you miss it......AND your HEART is not developed.....the pocket will either look like a thimble or your shooting hand will feel like Michael J. Fox the millisecond before impact.
Click to expand...

that was sort of my point in the post. Practice gives you all the skill. gambing and tournaments allows you to play at that level under pressure. You are not going to learn new shots or banks etc with money on the line. You will learn to feel comfortable shooting those shots under pressure.
 
I think the answer is yes gambling can help make you a better player. A few reasons why it can help:

1. Incentive to play. Gives you reason to practice more when your not gambling. I also feel tourneys are incentives for some as well though. Gambling can be the motivation to work on improving your game.

2. Gambling can lead for longer playing times, hence more practice time when focusing on everything involved. When just going out to practice, you might stop after a couple hours, where as gambling might take longer and you might end up practicing longer with a heightened focus. True gamblers tend to have very long sessions and are constantly playing which will increase skills over time.

3. Gambling can give you an opportunity to play better players which is a proven way to improve your game.

4. The more pressure situations a person gets involved in, the stronger they will become. This is true for other games/sports as well.

So IMO I think it can help you become a better player which answers the OP original question. Its obviously not the only thing however and not necessarily required to become a good player.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
that was sort of my point in the post. Practice gives you all the skill. gambing and tournaments allows you to play at that level under pressure. You are not going to learn new shots or banks etc with money on the line. You will learn to feel comfortable shooting those shots under pressure.
Click to expand...

I agree. The ONLY exception would be pattern play. You'll remember how not to play a shot better if you lose enough money on it you have to hide it from your wife/girlfriend. I'm not saying I'm a macho gambler or anything.... but I've lost enough money to accept a lot of shots rather than trying to spin around the table trying to get perfect.
 
Quality practice makes you a better player.

Playing under pressure makes you a better competitor.

Thinking the that playing for money is the only way to put pressure on yourself is not only short sided but also sad. :(

And some people wonder why pool has a bad image.



Just to add to that , how many 'big time' pool gamblers play money matches that they don't think they will win ? How many play with money they can't afford to lose ?

So much for pressure.
 
RRfireblade said:
Quality practice makes you a better player.

Playing under pressure makes you a better competitor.

Thinking the that playing for money is the only way to put pressure on yourself is not only short sided but also sad. :(

And some people wonder why pool has a bad image.



Just to add to that , how many 'big time' pool gamblers play money matches that they don't think they will win ? How many play with money they can't afford to lose ?

So much for pressure.
Click to expand...

Every sport has gambling. Every single one. If I recall, there was a sportsbook at my casino with every game / every sports odds, over/unders, etc.

The key is playing under pressure. If you FEEEEEL pressure beating up your APA buddy in a match and you get better off of it, perfect. 99% of players (of all sports) think that putting up the cash is the best exercise in pressure.

How many big time pool players players gamble in matches they don't think they'll win? Not many. How many big time pool players gamble on a match that might be a toss-up? Lots. How many gamble with money they can't afford to lose? NEARLY ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL OF THEM!
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Every sport has gambling. Every single one. If I recall, there was a sportsbook at my casino with every game / every sports odds, over/unders, etc.

There are sports books for everything outside of sports too , doesn't make it common practice. Some sports actually have pride and achievement as the primary motivator.



The key is playing under pressure. If you FEEEEEL pressure beating up your APA buddy in a match and you get better off of it, perfect. 99% of players (of all sports) think that putting up the cash is the best exercise in pressure.

You honestly think Tiger , Roger , Jordan , Ruth , Gretzky , Owens , etc got to the top of thier game because they gambled they're way there ?

How many big time pool players players gamble in matches they don't think they'll win? Not many. How many big time pool players gamble on a match that might be a toss-up? Lots. How many gamble with money they can't afford to lose? NEARLY ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL OF THEM!
Click to expand...

Then they are some pretty intellegent people. Again,perfect for the image of pool that people are so concerned about.



;)
 
RRfireblade said:
Thinking the that playing for money is the only way to put pressure on yourself is not only short sided but also sad. :(
.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, but again, nobody is saying "the only way to put pressure on yourself is to play for money."


RRf said:
You honestly think Tiger , Roger , Jordan , Ruth , Gretzky , Owens , etc got to the top of thier game because they gambled they're way there ?
Click to expand...
Tiger gambles. Jordan definitely gambled. Ruth... gambled. Does Tiger ever "play just to play"?

Fred
 
Last edited:
Many are implying , some are within 1% of thinking so. ;)



SpiderWebComm said:
99% of players (of all sports) think that putting up the cash is the best exercise in pressure.
Click to expand...

Granted I only read the OP and the last hand full of posts but was a little suprised at many of the replys.

I personally think 99% of the top player in sports would credit a pure deep seeded desire to win , break records , make history , emulate childhood idols etc , as thier primary motivation. If gambling with money you can't offor to lose has such an impact to your game then I would think a fear of losing might be more then likely the motivation there and normally the opposite of how 'most' would suggest you prepare mentally for best performance. I could be wrong tho but that's my opinion. :)
 
Last edited:
Cornerman said:
I agree with you, but again, nobody is saying "the only way to put pressure on yourself is to play for money."


Tiger gambles. Jordan definitely gambled. Ruth... gambled. Does Tiger ever "play just to play"?

Fred
Click to expand...

None of them gamble cause they 'need' to. ;) None of them will tell you that's how they became the best in the world.
 
RRfireblade said:
Many are implying , some are within 1% of thinking so. ;)
Click to expand...
I know it may seem to you that I'm splitting hairs, but I'm not. You said one thing, then are pointing to something one person said that isn't what you said.

You said: Thinking the that playing for money is the only way to put pressure on yourself is not only short sided but also sad

Dave said: 99% of players (of all sports) think that putting up the cash is the best exercise in pressure.

I'm sure Dave would agree that there are multitude of other ways to put pressure on yourself. Hell, playing the Ghost is a pressure cooker. Playing in a tournament in your home room. Therefore, he would actuall say something that agrees with what you're saying. He just believes that "putting up the cash" is the best way. Even if it's not the best way, the original question is still answered: he believes it actually does help a person's game to gamble in pool.

Do you or don't you agree that playing under some kind of pressure can only help your game? If so, then we can all debate about the best way people can do that. Gambling is certainly one of them. Playing tournaments is another. In both instances, you're generally putting up the cash.

For those who say they can bring the same game, intensity, and shot selection playing for nothing are either super human or fooling themselves. Take your pick.

And again, nobody is saying that gambling is the only way to improve. That would be idiotic. We (who believe that gambling helps) all understand this.

Fred
 
Last edited:
Cornerman said:
I know it may seem to you that I'm splitting hairs, but I'm not. You said one thing, then are pointing to something one person said that isn't what you said.

You said: Thinking the that playing for money is the only way to put pressure on yourself is not only short sided but also sad

Dave said: 99% of players (of all sports) think that putting up the cash is the best exercise in pressure.

I'm sure Dave would agree that there are multitude of other ways to put pressure on yourself. Hell, playing the Ghost is a pressure cooker. Playing in a tournament in your home room. Therefore, he would actuall say something that agrees with what you're saying. He just believes that "putting up the cash" is the best way. Even if it's not the best way, the original question is still answered: he believes it actually does help a person's game to gamble in pool.

Do you or don't you agree that playing under some kind of pressure can only help your game? If so, then we can all debate about the best way people can do that. Gambling is certainly one of them. Playing tournaments is another. In both instances, you're generally putting up the cash.

For those who say they can bring the same game, intensity, and shot selection playing for nothing are either super human or fooling themselves. Take your pick.

And again, nobody is saying that gambling is the only way to improve. That would be idiotic. We (who believe that gambling helps) all understand this.

Fred
Click to expand...

That was precisely what my first post addressed:

"Thinking the that playing for money is the only way to put pressure on yourself is not only short sided but also sad. "

Then i was quoted and debated in what I assumed was a tone of contrast to that. ;) And then given flawed , IMO , examples to back it up.

And here we are. :)

So I'll end where I started which I believe puts you and I back in the same spot.


Me said:
Quality practice makes you a better player.

Playing under pressure makes you a better competitor.
Click to expand...

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top