Does the prevalence of one-pocket hurt the overall pool game in the US?

[SakuJack]

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either. There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem? Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?

Thoughts?

 

[SJDinPHX]

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either. There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem? Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?

Thoughts?

This could be a very accurate observation!..One pocket is my favorite game, but I know from my own experience, that it does not place a premium on the cue ball movement required in rotation games..I know my 9ball game suffered dramatically!..Many players, like Archer or Strickland, who shunned 1P, remained much sharper at 9/10 ball, much longer!

I don't see much changing, as 1P is only gaining in popularity in this country, and has now pretty much become our preferred gambling game, for high $$$$!..Most of our young new players are being forced to learn it, if they want to gamble..We may never again be competitive with the Euros, much less dominate, as we did in past years when 9ball was our most popular game..It is what it is, cest la vie!

PS..One good thing though..If the rest of the world ever realizes what a great game 1P really is..we'll have a pretty good head start on them!

 

[JoseV]

SJD touched on this With Archer not playing One pocket, But every time i play a few hours of one pocket my stroke starts to suffer in 9 Ball until i can open up my stroke again.

I know a guy back home that can't stroke for crap, he can get the last four or five in 9 Ball but will have to give A and B players 10-5. My observation of this guy is you don't need the best stroke for one pocket, but you need tremendous amounts of knowledge to win in one pocket.

 

[Nick B]

I would point to the Bar Box before One Pocket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either.

One Pocket is an American Game that is meant to challenge those with substantive skills, which lead(s) to upper tiered player betting.

There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem?
YES!
Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?
YES!
Right now European and Asian youth are running 100 balls before breakfast.-
America barely focuses on Straight Pool (14.1)
Right now, we in the USA are attempting grow our minds, our arsenals and our perspectives.
If we are to be competitive, we must change our minds about what we would like to become.

Thoughts?

Also-
our thoughts about what pool/billiards "is" hurts us in the United States.

We think most people look at us as "no-good pool players" and degenerate gamblers, which holds truth obviously, BUT IT ISN'T ALL THAT WE ARE!!

One Pocket is played by those who already have knowledge of other games and enjoy critical thinking and the betting aspect.

Look at the youth playing and tell them it's not a sport!!!
They treat it as such and approach it as such.

So, the difference is perspective.

 

[gunzby]

SJD touched on this With Archer not playing One pocket, But every time i play a few hours of one pocket my stroke starts to suffer in 9 Ball until i can open up my stroke again.

I know a guy back home that can't stroke for crap, he can get the last four or five in 9 Ball but will have to give A and B players 10-5. My observation of this guy is you don't need the best stroke for one pocket, but you need tremendous amounts of knowledge to win in one pocket.

Reminded me of a guy I was playing a year or so ago at 9 ball. He didn't win a game for two hours straight. I was left with a 1p shot (double kiss bank), went for it and ran out. I told him that was basically the only 1p shot I really knew. He asked if I wanted to play and he proceeded to absolutely wreck me at that game

 

[pmac666]

I would point to the Bar Box before One Pocket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wanted to make me a better picture about JBs play and typed his name into youtube, the result surprised me, on the first 4 sites there is only one match on a 9 footer aside from the mosconi matches, rest barboxes, guess that proves you right!

 

[Chicagoplayer]

Certainly-

I would point to the Bar Box before One Pocket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bar box (7x3.5) play is certainly one factor.

If American players don't have the gumption or the want to step up, learn how to play on a proper 9x4.5 regulation table, then by all means, go play on the bar box.

Either you aim to grow or you aim to stay the same

I'm all for play on 10x5 's, but that's me.

 

[trob]

Watching one pocket has absolutely helped america...sleep. Watching that game is better for sleep then washing down 2 tylenol pm with a glass of whiskey!

 

[bbb]

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either. There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem? Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?

Thoughts?

i would disagree with the bolded part above
those tippy tappy shots do require good cue action to freeze the cue ball on another ball or the rail

 

[ineedaspot]

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either. There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem? Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?

Thoughts?

You may have a point, but I'd like to step in to defend one-pocket here.

A lot of the "tippy-tappy" shots in one-pocket actually do require a lot of skill, but maybe a different kind of skill -- precision and ball control (cue ball and other balls) more than power. For example, small stuff like leaving your opponent actually frozen to a rail makes a big difference versus leaving them an inch away from the rail. Maybe we can call it "Efren skill" as opposed to "Shane skill" (obviously simplifying, since Efren and Shane can play both games great).

And on the other hand, 9-ball at the top level consists of a lot of routine run-outs. A typical pro rack, you get maybe one or two good safeties or kicks, one tough shot to get in line, and then a bunch of pretty easy shots (easy for pros).

But, yeah, it's a different skill set. One pocket is more about strategy, ball control, touch. 9-ball is more about ball pocketing and power.

Still, I don't think one-pocket is big enough here to really explain the difference. 9/10-ball are still by far the biggest games in the US pro scene. I think the difference is that Euros treat pool as a sport, training and working on fundamentals. In the US most people who get to pro level came up through gambling, which teaches a lot of things but it doesn't compete with coaching and training when it comes to developing fundamentals.

 

[336Robin]

No

I really don't think that is it. I do love some One Pocket but recently started working on my 9-ball game some again. It took me just a few hours to identify ways reestablish a solid 9 ball game and start running out.

It is a different ideology but getting tangent line position and using smaller increments of spin and running out isnt all that difficult for a good One pocket player to do, you just take it a shot at a time and work your way through the rack.

If anything I think the principles of One Pocket will help you with any game but it is a different game that will strengthen your safety ability 10 fold.

There has been some talk about a testing mechanism they use to test who gets on their teams I think, this should probably be looked at and possibly make it that here.

There was some talk last year that everyone on team Europe was using low deflection shafts so they had less squirt to plan for but a good captain who understands both games should have no problem coaching his players into the right perspective from the different strengths required for the right game. I don't see it as a big problem.

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either. There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem? Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?

Thoughts?

 

[BasementDweller]

You're getting warmer...

One-pocket isn't really the problem, it's just the natural outlet for those players that are afflicted with the actual illness. Here in the US, we tend to care more about the balls and how they are moving than we care about the bodies and how they are. From the moment a young player first picks up a cue, they are shown all kinds of fancy shots. "Hey check out this bank shot." Or when an advanced player is asked, "How did you make that shot?" The instinctive response is to show him how you cued the ball as opposed to showing him how you cued.

We have a love affair with the balls. This love blinds us to the real passion that the great players have and that's to the art of cueing. If we could get more players to get satisfaction out of moving the cue well and less players impressed by the balls rolling around the table 5 rails before falling into a pocket -- we would be on our way to turning things around.

 

[GoldenFlash]

Bar box (7x3.5) play is certainly one factor.
If American players don't have the gumption or the want to step up, learn how to play on a proper 9x4.5 regulation table, then by all means, go play on the bar box.
Either you aim to grow or you aim to stay the same
I'm all for play on 10x5 's, but that's me.

I agree.
The large tables in a commercial room are becoming fewer and fewer though.
In some geographic areas a person may have to drive 100 miles round trip just to find some 4 1/2 x 9's. I haven't seen a 5x10 (other than snooker) down here in the south in ages.

 

[garczar]

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either. There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem? Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?

Thoughts?

Good point(s). A lot of GOOD one-hole players can't get out of their own way playing nine-ball.

 

[boogeyman]

Thinking about not just the recent Mosconi, but also the performance of American players in world events over the last 5-10 years...

Practically nobody plays one-pocket here in the UK. I assume it's the same in most other European countries, and I'm led to believe it's not really played in Asia either. There will be exceptions, but it's predominantly a US only game. I read a lot on here about how most money matches where people play are one-pocket matches. I also read a lot of, "one-pocket is like chess", or how you have to learn the shots, learn how to move.

I'm far from knowledgeable about the game, but watching it, it seems to be 70% tippy-tappy nothing shots (requiring knowledge, but little actually mechanical skill - i.e. a good cue action), 15% "normal' pool shots, and 15% flashy spin shots or banks (needed to get position, obviously).

Is this a problem? Is America busy focusing on a game few other countries play, and requires a very specific skill set, while the rest of the world is getting better at actually cueing balls?

Thoughts?

With all due respect, that question assumes a few things incorrectly:

1) One-pocket is prevalent in the U.S. (it is not),

2) A country focusing on one particular game is bad for a country's pool industry.
It's not. Think Chinese eight ball. That crazy-difficult Russian game. British snooker.

But to answer the question, no, it doesn't hurt our pool game.

The demise of pool in the U.S. can't be blamed on one-hole. Are you kidding?
One-hole is not a "specialist" game mind you.
It requires ALL the skills in pool. ALL. THE. SKILLS.

 

[philly]

SJD touched on this With Archer not playing One pocket, But every time i play a few hours of one pocket my stroke starts to suffer in 9 Ball until i can open up my stroke again.

I know a guy back home that can't stroke for crap, he can get the last four or five in 9 Ball but will have to give A and B players 10-5. My observation of this guy is you don't need the best stroke for one pocket, but you need tremendous amounts of knowledge to win in one pocket.

I respectfully couldn't disagree more. 9 ball is my favorite game. I love rotation. I think you need an incredible stroke for one pocket. To hit a ball softly and send it 2 rails towards your pocket leaving whitey in a stop shot mode trap is control. I find that after a long session of one pocket I play better 9 ball especially the 9 ball safety game. To weave your way to an eight and out in one pocket is cue ball control at it's finest and can only help your other games, especially 8 ball. The guys that play the best one pocket see the table and the possibilities better than most.

 

[dnschmidt]

The failure to admit the truth on this forum continues unabated. Here's the reason for America's decline in pool on the world stage.

1) The seven foot table. The ability to make the long ball is crucial in competition.
2) It's now played in bars on seven foot tables which contribute nothing to concentration (think loud music, women and alcohol) and is only played socially and not as a sport.
3) THERE IS NO PROFESSIONAL TOUR in which to learn the craft, take your beating without going broke (gambling) and improving against superior players.
4) THERE ISN'T ANY MONEY IN IT. Everybody expects the American players to practice 20 hours a day to compete in the Mosconi cup. To what point? Shane doesn't make a much money as a dentist in a year (having just spent 5K on a dental implant I can assure you of that). Without a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow why bother. Kids playing basketball 10 hours a day to get into the NBA to make 50 million makes sense. Practicing 10 hours a day to make $50,000 a year doesn't make sense now does it. No sport pays it's greatest players less than pool.
5) One pocket. A game to which people that can no longer make the long and difficult shots needed in 9 and 10 ball gravitate to.

There are about 100 other good reasons that American Professional Pool sucks but I'll limit it to my first five.

 

[Cory in DC]

Reasonable theory but I agree that it doesn't hold up.

• Mike D. essentially doesn't play one pocket (I recall he did will at DCC one year)
  
• I don't think Rodney plays it a lot.
  
• Shane plays 1P but clearly spends the majority of his time on 9/10 ball.
  
• I think Justin plays a fair amount of 1P and he played better than others.
  
• I have no idea about Skyler and 1P.

That's mostly by memory from reading AZB so I could be a little off. But there's no real pattern evident between the amount of 1P and performance.

Also, landing and getting out of safes was something the US was not as strong at as the Europeans. That's a larger part of 1P than 9 ball, so I think 1P might actually be helpful.

The moral of the story is that you can safely play 1P!

Cory

P.S. Causality may go the other way: I prefer 1P because I'm not very good at 9-ball.

 

[supergreenman]

Do you only go to the gym to work on you curls and expect to be fit?

1P can only help your game, strategy and stroke.

caveat: unless it's the only game you play/practice.