If the tip is harder than the cb, then the chalk is what will cause scratches and divots on the ball.
don't ban jump cues, ban phenolic tips- ?
- Thread starter evergruven
- Start date
If the tip is harder than the cb, then the chalk is what will cause scratches and divots on the ball.
I love watching the top players jump, especially at the Mosconi with the drunken shrieking crowd.
I also love seeing anyone I play against pull out the jump cue. Lots of exciting things can happen and most of them are good for me. But then, I'm not playing against SVB, Filler, or anyone named Ko. ;-)
I also love seeing anyone I play against pull out the jump cue. Lots of exciting things can happen and most of them are good for me. But then, I'm not playing against SVB, Filler, or anyone named Ko. ;-)
again, I'm learning here- can a tip *be* harder than the cb?
Y
Yes. There was a banned tip a few years back, can't remember the name. It was banned because it was harder than the cb and there was talk of it damaging the ball on break shots. I didn't follow the story, so not sure how it ended.
But even if the tip is the same hardness of the cue ball, made with the same phenolic resin, neither would be harder than the silica based chalk, so the chalk would scratch or indent both materials. But if the tip is softer than the cb, the tip would absorb the impact of the chalk's abrasions.
Yes. There was a banned tip a few years back, can't remember the name. It was banned because it was harder than the cb and there was talk of it damaging the ball on break shots. I didn't follow the story, so not sure how it ended.
But even if the tip is the same hardness of the cue ball, made with the same phenolic resin, neither would be harder than the silica based chalk, so the chalk would scratch or indent both materials. But if the tip is softer than the cb, the tip would absorb the impact of the chalk's abrasions.
I'm with you here, King T. I'm not quite as sure as you that the spectators like it, but I do agree that what the spectators, as a group, want matters far more than whether I like the jump cue. As I've said, however, I'm convinced that the debate is moot and that jump cues are here to stay. Those aspiring to a career in pro pool better practice with the short stick.
If those running pro snooker felt that cue sports fans want shots played through the air and that such shots make cue sports better, they'd add jump cues to snooker tomorrow. Thankfully, they know better, so snooker has managed to avoid the addition of the jump stick and, by doing so, they have preserved the traditions that underly their game. Pool has, instead, sold its soul and taken a step away from its traditions.
Here’s a novel thought. How about doing away with jump cues and every other tip material other than leather?
Currently, the minimum WPA cue length is 40”. Lengthen it to 50” minimum & maximum length of 62” (1 ft diff).
Players can learn to use a bridge like pool was mainly played decades ago and do away with non-leather tips.
If you can jump the cue ball using a 50” cue, all the more power to you. But here’s the rub….there’s always one.
Whatever cue length the player starts a game with, 50”, 54”, 58” or 62”, he has to play with that length cue the
entire game. If a player changes cue length for the next game, then he has to keep that length cue the entire game.
Basically it means players will learn to jump the cue ball using their playing cue or rely on a bridge. Who knows?
Maybe there some not yet known ideal length cue that lets you accomplish everything without ever switching?
Currently, the minimum WPA cue length is 40”. Lengthen it to 50” minimum & maximum length of 62” (1 ft diff).
Players can learn to use a bridge like pool was mainly played decades ago and do away with non-leather tips.
If you can jump the cue ball using a 50” cue, all the more power to you. But here’s the rub….there’s always one.
Whatever cue length the player starts a game with, 50”, 54”, 58” or 62”, he has to play with that length cue the
entire game. If a player changes cue length for the next game, then he has to keep that length cue the entire game.
Basically it means players will learn to jump the cue ball using their playing cue or rely on a bridge. Who knows?
Maybe there some not yet known ideal length cue that lets you accomplish everything without ever switching?
Woodshaft
Do what works for YOU!
Apparently you didn't read (at the end of my paragraph) the three recommended safeties to counter jump-escapes, young padawan.
I can jump and play safeties very well, tyvm. I just feel it's gimmicky and not traditional.
What's next-- Predator "pitching wedges"?
Does it actually make it better in some fashion, or is this just a biased personal opinion by those who are not fans of jump cues...? I'm not singling you out here SJM. Making a general statement.
How about they put a spotlight on weak safe play..? As far as compromising the integrity of the game.... I think you're blowing this a tad out of proportion, especially when players are continually pulling moves on one another to gain an advantage.
Not that I'm saying anyone has to, but when I jump on to my FB account I can hammered with jump shot highlight reels. The Styer "jump, 2 rail kick". The Atenico "double jump"... The recent Yapp, "jump long pot and draw 3/4 table". Apparently fans like cheap... Time to embrace it or take up lawn bowling.
Bad comparison. Let pretend they did away with the jump cue in pool, but in conjunction also tossed out the post rail contact rule. Would that cheapen the game..? Because that's what snooker is now.
You can't compare checkers to chess
The value of weak safeties is diminished. A well played one is just as good as it's ever been. The reality is that jump cues have a shone a light on how undeveloped this aspect of the game is for most players, safeties I mean.
While we differ on our opinions of jump cues and the game. We do agree on the safety net for weak positional play it has become. Much like I think the short cue has highlighted poor safety play. It's also allowed players to under develop their positional accuracy. This is why I fully agree with you that the jump cue should be limited to use during the first shot of an inning. So, only a means to escape a safety by their opponent and not a tool to recover from poor position.
That said, the above would remove some interesting aspects of pattern play. I never see it on the professional level but I know I have played patterns with integrated jump shot within it. Not advisable but entertaining none the less...lol
but not too gimmicky for you to get good at it though, right?Apparently you didn't read (at the end of my paragraph) the three recommended safeties to counter jump-escapes, young padawan.
I can jump and play safeties very well, tyvm. I just feel it's gimmicky and not traditional.
What's next-- Predator "pitching wedges"?
Apparently you didn't read (at the end of my paragraph) the three recommended safeties to counter jump-escapes, young padawan.
I can jump and play safeties very well, tyvm. I just feel it's gimmicky and not traditional.
What's next-- Predator "pitching wedges"?
We have lots of things now that we didn’t have when I first started playing pool (quite a while before you did)…
…Low deflection shafts, carbon fiber anything, layered tips, break cues, template racks, quick release cue extensions, and the list goes on…
Times change. Things evolve. We can either evolve with them, or we can sit on our porch and yell at the kids to get off our grass.
As for Predator “pitching wedges“, my golf bag looks a whole lot different than it did 50 years ago too!
The chart appears to max out at 99 for hardness, if that is the case that doesn't mean leather is as hard as phenolic it just means they both reach the limit of the scale.
I disagree. The last pro event I watched where jump shots were used ended in one of two situations....
They got a hit but missed the shot. Cue ball ended up badly for them. Opponent might as well have had ball in hand.
They made the shot but had zero chance on the next shot. On one jump, the obstructing ball didnt get cleared. And these were pros!
Jumping isnt the "easy" shot for the pros that everyone seems to think they are. More then half the time they end up selling out.
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Zerksies
Well-known member
I didn't make up the chart.
Thanks for a well presented and well-reasoned post. Much sense in what you say, and as you have noted, restricting use of the jump cue to the first shot of an inning only would be in my comfort zone for sure.
In the end, I will favor whatever grows the game.
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FWIW, I‘ll occasionally push out to a position that leaves a jump shot, against an opponent that I know to be weak in that area. If he tries to jump or kick, it usually ends in my favor. Likewise if he gives the shot back to me.
Having a wide variety of skills is just one more hallmark of a better player…
PracticeChampion
Well-known member
I'm a decent kicker as in hitting the ball but my percentage of making a jump is a lot better so it's a no brainer to jump. I use a odega tip on my break/jump. Not sure what exactly it is but definitely not phenolic. Almost like micro pieces of leather press/glued together, cuts like butter on lathe when I installed it but I have yet the need to shape it after 6 months use
It is becoming more popular when people gamble, they can only jump with a full length cue.
Some Tournaments are following that rule also.
Some Tournaments are following that rule also.
key word is 'skill'. jumping with a short cue is too easy. nothing against jumping, just a piece of equipment that makes a shot basically a no-brainer. best tournament i've ever attended is DCC and they allow jumps but no shorty cues. never heard a complaint about the rule. kicking,especially multi-rails, takes far more skill than hopping with a jump cue.
Aye, the spectators like it. I think they like kicking too but you rarely, if ever, hear anyone complaining about kicking cues. Maybe cos there ain't none.
What are you basing 'more than half the time' on?? One event you watched? Reason i ask this is i watch a lot of pro pool on various streams and from what i see they don't sell-out anywhere near 50% of the time when using a short cue to jump.