LOL. The other folks at the pool hall didn't pressure you one way or the other?
pj
chgo
double-hits, frozen balls, youtube instruction
- Thread starter mikepage
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LOL. The other folks at the pool hall didn't pressure you one way or the other?
pj
chgo
It doesn't "have restrictions" in frozen ball situations; it simply doesn't work. The times when it seems to work are those (few) when it accidentally coincides with the interference system alignment.
I don't see any mention of "restrictions based on cue ball placement" with the interference system.
I'm glad you mentioned it - it's a valuable principle in lots of situations that many will benefit from learning. But it's not useful in frozen ball situations and knowing that limitation is essential in making it really useful.
Sorry, but you're wrong. It only works with frozen balls when they accidentally line up the same way as the interference system does, so if you try to use that system with frozen balls you'll be wrong 9 times out of 10 - probably lots more.
It does hurt if your "cross reference" misleads you.
I understand, and I do hate to be the one to say it, but this system isn't "another way" to look at aiming with frozen balls. That idea will mislead beginners who don't know any better. I'm not trying to criticize you, just trying to stop mistaken info from spreading.
pj
chgo
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The restrictions I was talking about is explained in the video by Mike. Go to 6:22 into the video.
Deleted balance of post. Patrick was correct in his statements. System I explained only works when it happens to line up the same as the interference system.
Everyone, please read up on Bob's Interference System and apply it in all frozen ball situations.
Nice work Mike. Didn't mean to seem to HighJack your post.
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I just watched again and don't see any restrictions mentioned or demonstrated. Maybe you should watch it again. Or not.
Without much thinking at all I can come up with position after position where they don't match. In fact, the only positions that come close enough are very long shots with very small angles like #6 in the diagram below - all others are far enough off to miss the shots. You're confusing your own imprecision with "slack" in the system.
NOTE: Black lines are "Interference System" aims. Red lines are your aims. Green lines are OB-OB centerlines (to show how your aims are measured).
I can't really tell if you get that or not, so: 95 or 99 out of 100.
Now I am - for being stubbornly, defensively wrong when knowing the facts (and helping people rather than misinforming them) takes so little honest effort.
pj
chgo
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Try going back again and turn up the volume this time. 6:22 FYI
Guess I do not know what to do now. I already apologized above way before you posted this. Look at the edit times. Don't know what else I can say. Least I don't say we're both right.
I admit when I am wrong.
Quit playing games and quote the part you think says there are restrictions. It isn't there.
I missed that part. Sorry.
Since we weren't both right, that's only appropriate.
Least I don't keep bringing up imagined "victories" from earlier threads.
pj
chgo
Legal Pushshot in ND?
Mike,
In North Dakota NDTA leagues, the league rules specifically state that push shots are legal. Does this mean that the long-duration tip-ball contact shot you made in the video is legal? If it is, nobody is using it, but I'm going to. If my ball is on the rail near the pocket with a ball next to it (away from the pocket), would it be legal to put the CB in front of the OB, (away from the rail), and push shot spin the ball in the pocket?
Mike,
In North Dakota NDTA leagues, the league rules specifically state that push shots are legal. Does this mean that the long-duration tip-ball contact shot you made in the video is legal? If it is, nobody is using it, but I'm going to. If my ball is on the rail near the pocket with a ball next to it (away from the pocket), would it be legal to put the CB in front of the OB, (away from the rail), and push shot spin the ball in the pocket?
Diamonds
I don't know if I can get this across but check this out.
Put a ball in the corner jaws ,freeze a ball on the cue ball near the side pocket same side as the leaner. If the frozen ball is lined up with the other side rail, look to see what diamond it is pointed to,now just shoot at the same diamond on the short rail. No guess work of division. LES
Mikepage,mikepage said:
I don't know if I can get this across but check this out.
Put a ball in the corner jaws ,freeze a ball on the cue ball near the side pocket same side as the leaner. If the frozen ball is lined up with the other side rail, look to see what diamond it is pointed to,now just shoot at the same diamond on the short rail. No guess work of division. LES
ndakotan said:
NDTA (North Dakota Tournament Association) is a collection of VENDORS (companies who rent coin operated equipment to bars). They run so-called "State" tournaments that I'm not allowed to play in because I don't play league through one of the right vending companies.
My league team is also not allowed to play in the NDTA "State" Tournament.
It's fine for those vendors to get together and have an annual tournament, but I don't like it when people call it the ND State Championships or anything like that.
I think that's a bad idea. I suspect they've never heard of a "push shot" the way I describe it. I suspect they're saying double hits on close balls are legal, or some other stupid rules.
I have no prediction. You may be dealing with people who see ball-in-hand-for-a-foul as a communist plot.
ndakotan said:
OK I looked it up. That might be the old rule, but apparently the rule has changed.
http://www.ndtaonline.com/pool/rules/spl_rules.htm#pushshot
So push shots are now illegal. But apparently stroking into a frozen pair is illegal as well ??? So if you are shooting at a frozen pair you have to jack up by 45 degrees or whatever (a rule that has no relation to the physics of the situation).
While jacking up to shoot the frozen pair though, be careful you don't raise the cue above your armpit and look like you're shooting a masse because hat is illegal.
Good luck and be careful out there.
What if the frozen CB/OB are somewhere else?
pj
chgo
If I understand correctly.... Suppose the cue ball and object ball that it is frozen to point at the corner pocket on the same end rail as the leaner. I think that your system says to shoot straight at the frozen ball, and the cue ball will go straight ahead. (In fact, for that position, you should be shooting at roughly -- but not exactly -- the center of the end rail.)PIRANHA said:
Wish I could use the Table to explain. If the cb is frozen on the ball by the side pocket, same side as leaner. Point straight through the two balls at the other side rail.If you see the second diamond up from the corner. shoot at the second diamond on the short rail..LES
This might almost work when the frozen CB/OB is pointed at the first diamond from the opposite side pocket, but if the frozen CB/OB is pointed at any other diamond this doesn't work. Your method just happens to (almost) coincide with the correct Jewett System aim in one coincidental case.
pj
chgo
Ndta
I don't think I'd actually try it in league, but the rules are written so poorly and so misunderstood that I am willing to cause some uproar to get someone to do something about it. To run a league with the size of tournaments we have with one sheet of poorly worded rules is astounding to me. While the rules do specifically allow "push shots" I agree that they probably don't know what a true "push shot" is. It would be fun to have someone go get a judge after explaining what I "intend" to do.
mikepage said:
I don't think I'd actually try it in league, but the rules are written so poorly and so misunderstood that I am willing to cause some uproar to get someone to do something about it. To run a league with the size of tournaments we have with one sheet of poorly worded rules is astounding to me. While the rules do specifically allow "push shots" I agree that they probably don't know what a true "push shot" is. It would be fun to have someone go get a judge after explaining what I "intend" to do.
Just got back on the site and on my table. I lined up the shot on every diamond across the table.I shot at the same diamond on the short rail , no problem? My stroke may be different, it is not a push shot. I'm shooting away from the ball .A firm stroke at 7:00. LES
Which diamonds on the long rail are the CB/OB pair pointed at and which corresponding diamonds on the short rail are you aiming at? "The same diamond" doesn't communicate.PIRANHA said:
Here's a Wei table with the relevant diamonds numbered and the CB/OB pair pointed at diamond #1 on the long rail. Which diamond on the short rail do you aim the CB at to sink the 9 in the near corner?
Which diamonds on the short rail do you aim the CB at when the CB/OB pair is pointed at diamond #2 or #3?
By the way, hitting low (at 7:00 o'clock) isn't the way to hit these shots for Jewett's system. I think centerball or slightly above is best.
pj
chgo