Double Hits, Push Shots.

There was only one person qualified in the BCA office to understand the issue. He has no conection to the BCA Rules Committe. Must have taken it upon himself to be the LAW.

Thanks Bob,.....randyg
 
Without a rules committee, who would be qualified? maybe the top league operator? I would have to take exception with that person's qualifications.

randyg said:
There was only one person qualified in the BCA office to understand the issue. He has no conection to the BCA Rules Committe. Must have taken it upon himself to be the LAW.

Thanks Bob,.....randyg
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Push Shots

Colin Colenso said:
Thanks for your detailed and inside expert's reply Jay :)

So if I'm 1/16" from the object ball, straight in line with the pocket. I jack up and fire straight with some masse to bring the CB back. The CB moves forward a few inches and then comes back, would you accept this as legal?

Colin
Click to expand...

Although 1/16" is real close, a good hit can be made by a competent player.
The scenario you describe may or may not be a good hit. The Cue Ball does not necessarily have to come back at all and may not on such a shot. From that close, the Cue Ball would likely move very little (not inches) and then come to a stop. And you would likely not hit that shot with much force to execute it properly. Like I said before, I'd have to see it to call it Colin.
Thanks
 
A very cool shot

Stretch said:
This rule comes up all the time when two players are trying to safe each other by bumping the cb up to the ob and freezing them against the cushion. If there remains a tiny gap between the two balls and the rail there is a little known technique that will enable u to perform a leagal shot and return the safe.

just lay your cue tip 'under the cb' (on the cloth under the overhanging edge). with a flick, lift the tip straight up where by glancing off the edge with an upward motion causeing the cueball to slightly roll forward getting that leagal hit and return safe. Works like a dream. St.
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Pat Fleming was the first person to show me that shot years ago.
 
cool shot?

Bob Jewett said:
This technique has been specifically ruled a foul. A stroke must be a forward motion of the cue stick.

An article describing the problem and the technique and several other techniques is at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1997-10.pdf
The BCA made the ruling after that article was published.
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Okay Bobby boy, I accept your decision on that one. You the Man!
 
Don't forget this applies to the 9 Ball Push-Out

A little comment for all the 9 Ball players - Don't forget that these rules apply to a Push-out, which still has be to struck in a legal fashion even though none of the other regular 9 Ball rules apply. (Having to hit the lowest ball first, hitting a rail etc.) I caught an opponent with this who was left nearly frozen to a ball after the break and just stepped up and glanced tip of the cue off it. He admitted that had not been a legal hit of the cue ball but was not aware that applied on a Push-out shot. Fortunately the TD knew it did!

As for Stretch's "flick safety" isn't that the same stroke as used for a "scoop" jump shot? It jumping that way is not legal why would this shot be?
 
jay helfert said:
Okay Bobby boy, I accept your decision on that one. You the Man!
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It wasn't my decision -- the decision was made by someone in the BCA office.

The article cited before also mentions dropping the stick from above to just graze the cue ball. That's the method I like.
 
Colin Colenso said:
... Personally, I like the double-hit shot being allowed, so long as there is one fluid stroke. It can avoid a lot of arguments and also playing these shots with control brings another aspect of skill into the game.
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It can also cause a lot of arguments. I suspect you don't play much one pocket.

As far as control, I think it takes far more control and skill to play a fouette than a double hit.
 
AuntyDan said:
... a Push-out, which still has be to struck in a legal fashion even though none of the other regular 9 Ball rules apply. (Having to hit the lowest ball first, hitting a rail etc.)...
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I think the only rules which are suspended for a push out are contacting the lowest ball first and driving a ball to a rail. Is there some other rule which does not apply?
 
Colin Colenso said:
... If I am touching my ball, can I fire away from it to a rail for legal shot, or is this considered to have not hit a ball?
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The answer is that it is not considered a hit, but it leads me to think you have never played US pool in competition before. That is a snooker rule and maybe an English "eight ball" rule. English eight ball is only a little like American eight ball.

You should seriously consider getting in several weeks of playing American players before your first IPT tournament. There will be fewer surprises that way. Be sure to have the IPT rules in hand during this training.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think the only rules which are suspended for a push out are contacting the lowest ball first and driving a ball to a rail. Is there some other rule which does not apply?
Click to expand...

Well if you want to be picky there are two more I can think of - Making a ball does not grant you another shot (Even if you make the 1 on a Push-out) and 9 gets spotted if made instead of winning the game.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It can also cause a lot of arguments. I suspect you don't play much one pocket.

As far as control, I think it takes far more control and skill to play a fouette than a double hit.
Click to expand...

I don't know the implications of the rule in 1-P, I guess its about pushing through balls on rails or pushing the pack to one side.

I have played a lot of this rule in English 8-ball and I think it works pretty well. Any shot you can't execute nearly legally probably can't be controlled well enough to make it worth the risk. The only silly feature they use is you can't do it on a touching ball, so the difference in a smidgeon of a mm, can mean win or loss sometimes. Kind of silly. That leads to most of the arguments....determining whether balls are actually touching.

It takes more skill to dance on a highwire than on a dance floor, but the dancing has a greater range of skill on the dance floor.

Allowing pushing opens up new sets of skills and new interesting strategies for the game. Most I know who have played the game allowing push shot quite enjoy the challenging new shot choices it can present.
 
mikepage said:
I should not have said "half-ball." I should have 45 degrees, whatever fraction of the ball that is. Have you tried it at the table?
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Yes, I have and I'm here to report. Here is the setup. Poolroom, 9' table, six month old 860
START(
%AC8O6%BC8L2%CC7I0%DC7F4%EC7C9%FF4C9%GH7C9%HK9C9%IO0C9%J[2Y5%P[2Z8
)END
The CB and 10B are lined up straight across and paper donutted with a 1/8" gap between them. The other balls mark the stick aiming points. Soft stroke speed.

Where the CB hit the rail for the corresponding targets--
using center ball hits
START(
%AC7U8%BD2U8%CD9V1%DE4V2%EC7R3%FC7O6%GC7M2%HC7I2%IC8D4%J[2Y5%P[2Z8
)END
So, yes, the CB started moving forward of the 'good line' when the aim line was near the corner pocket (5B target).

using max right spin
START(
%AC7U8%BD2U9%CD8U9%DE2U9%EE7V0%FC7S8%GD1S8%HC6O5%ID1O5%J[2Y5%P[2Z8
)END
There was swerve. I was jacked up a little. In fact, I believe that all nine differently aimed shots might have hit the cushion on the 'good line' if not for some swerve.

using max left spin
START(
%AC7U8%BC6P8%CC7P1%DC6L3%EC6I6%FC7D5%GE0C8%HE5C8%IP1C9%J[2Y5%P[2Z8
)END
I was surprised that a trapped CB didn't show up until close to the half-ball aim line (9B target).

This was a quick and dirty as you can tell by some of the results.
 
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