DP cues..logic says huh?

[Thunderball]

I have one.Let me say I love it.It looks great,hits great good balance ect.All true.

But this from his site has me wondering:

The “we” in DP cues is myself and Brian Mullins. Brian is my only employee and is a long time professional cue builder. He is a large part of the DP way of building cues.

Now...if you check ebay,you willl find more then a handful of cues by DP.
Check next week too..pick any day.Based on my last few monthes of looking you will find the same in a few months I'd guess.

I love the stick (I really do) but how the hell am I to believe that these two guys not only finish many sticks a week but also must be starting many a week as well?

My logic says that aint happ'n.
What the perception out there?

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

Everyone here knows what a horror story I had with my DP "1 of 1" Cue last year ... There is NO QUESTION in MY mind that he is mass producing cues the same as McDermott, Meucci, Viking, etc. and the amount of imperfections found in his current cues attest to that assertion ... Who in Hell would actually sell a $1500 + Cue at auction for $250-400 on a daily basis ... ?? ... NO ONE !!! ... You generally get what you pay for in this lifetime ... nothing more, nothing less ... Dale Perry is in truth, selling cues which are worth NO MORE than he realizes from them ...
The more people who hear the truth about DP Cues, the better off the Cue-buying community will be ...
He is capable of (again) making high quality cues and should do just that if he wants to regain respect from Pool Players and Collectors alike ...

 

[Fast Lenny]

I wanted a DP for awhile but as time went on and i saw them on Ebay first i thought great!,i saw the prices were low but all the cues looked alike and i also heard quality has suffered,i wont be buying one now because of this.

 

[John Barton]

It's called efficiency. Dale has set up his shop so that it cam be managed by two people and turn out a goo dnumber of cues. What his cues are "worth" is forthe market to decide.

If the collectors were paying the bills then you woudn't see Dale selling direct on Ebay.

As for the playability, that's totally subjective. I have had several Dale Perry cues that I liked just fine. I personally am not turned on by the hit but I could run out with them with little adjustment.

Dale has adapted to the marketplace as it truly stands right now. Who are we to begrudge him how he chooses to support himself?

Yeah, the guy who bought a DP cue for a high price ten years ago on speculation that it might be worth more someday is not doing too well right now because of the street prices but that's the way the game is played.

And who is to say with any certainty that the cues wont appreciate?

No one has a lock on the future.

 

[John Barton]

Everyone here knows what a horror story I had with my DP "1 of 1" Cue last year ... There is NO QUESTION in MY mind that he is mass producing cues the same as McDermott, Meucci, Viking, etc. and the amount of imperfections found in his current cues attest to that assertion ... Who in Hell would actually sell a $1500 + Cue at auction for $250-400 on a daily basis ... ?? ... NO ONE !!! ... You generally get what you pay for in this lifetime ... nothing more, nothing less ... Dale Perry is in truth, selling cues which are worth NO MORE than he realizes from them ...
The more people who hear the truth about DP Cues, the better off the Cue-buying community will be ...
He is capable of (again) making high quality cues and should do just that if he wants to regain respect from Pool Players and Collectors alike ...

I don't know the story but I have to say that this is what the power of the internet is good for. It is the place for people to vent and praise and have the subjects of those stories reap either the benefit or punishment from the community.

It is also the place where anyone can come and defend themselves in public.

 

[Thunderball]

It's called efficiency. Dale has set up his shop so that it cam be managed by two people and turn out a goo dnumber of cues. What his cues are "worth" is forthe market to decide.

Thanks for the replies all.

John,

So you are thinking it really is just two guys?Thata amazing if true.Thats a lot of cues being turned out and thats just whats on ebay.If it just these two fellas,they are taking effiecency to a whole new level.Maybe it is though,I don't really know,just wondering after seeing for sale day after day ect,so I was just searching for opinions (or direct knowledge) on the operation.

I do like my cue and would buy it again tomorrow for the same price I paid, so please don't think I'm bashing the guy or his cues.I have NO quality issues with it what so ever....and frankly I don't care how he sells em or for how much.

How many cues do you think they might turn out a year?

 

[tom haney]

Thanks for the replies all.

John,

So you are thinking it really is just two guys?Thata amazing if true.Thats a lot of cues being turned out and thats just whats on ebay.If it just these two fellas,they are taking effiecency to a whole new level.Maybe it is though,I don't really know,just wondering after seeing for sale day after day ect,so I was just searching for opinions (or direct knowledge) on the operation.

I do like my cue and would buy it again tomorrow for the same price I paid, so please don't think I'm bashing the guy or his cues.I have NO quality issues with it what so ever....and frankly I don't care how he sells em or for how much.

How many cues do you think they might turn out a year?

I see about 8 new cues a week on EBAY. Assuming that's all they're
making, that's 8 X 52 which is... Uh,I can't count to 21 unless I'm naked.
I have 3 DPs. The Speedster is okay; hit is stiffer than the " 1/1s".
But my other 2 play really well and are attractive cues.
Unfotunately I bought my 1st one before he got really cheap and paid
$700 for it. But I really like it so....

 

[SCCues]

DP cues

I have to agree with you that it doesn't seem possible for 2 men to build the number of DP cues that come up for sale just on ebay alone. If they are the only ones working on them then they have one of the most efficient systems around!

 

[bsmutz]

As far as I know, Ebay is the ONLY place Dale is advertising/selling his cues. He used to sell them to retailers, but changed his business model a few years ago. Many people got PO'd because the price he is selling them for on Ebay is less than what they needed to sell them at retail, thereby "cutting the throats" of his loyal distributors and the customers that had paid full retail for them. If you paid $700 (as one customer did above) and Dale is now selling them for half that, you can see that it is going to be hard to get your $700 back in a resale.
Notwithstanding the above, many people think he still makes a good quality cue and sells them at a pretty reasonable price. The one I have is almost exactly what I was looking for (would have liked a leather wrap) and for what I paid for it, I could add whatever shaft I want & the leather wrap and still have saved $3-400 (or more) off what I see similar cues selling for.

 

[X Breaker]

It is possible, with the help of a lot of equipment, and may be some part time employee.

A lot of "custom" cue makers have switched to mass production in recent years.

After Lucky closed out his shop in Japan, cue makers who have counted on Lucky's business have really suffered, and they have no choice but to mass produce, in order to pay their bills.

Another factor is the Chinese produced cues--the quality of such products are rapidly rising, while the price are still really affordable. This really hurts the middle range cue makers in the US, who used to sell their cues at $1000+, with a quality very similiar to the cues now built in China (e.g. Predator 5K).

There are a large number of new cue makers appearing on the market in recent years. I think we probably have more cue makers now than ever. When the supply increases, the demand will diminish. Cue making can now be learned via video and other means; parts, equipment, and supplies can be purchased on line--it is much easier for someone to start building cues now than it was before.

Thanks to the Internet, customers are more informed than ever, and also more knowledgable. They now have more information, and are able to compare and educate themselves before making a purchase.

I think the market of the $5000+ cues are not affected as much by these factors, because the supply of cues in such a market has not really increased--but those selling cues in the less than $2000 are certainly suffering.

There are a few "custom" cue makers who are switching to mass production. Eventually, they have to compete with the Chinese on price, and quality. In my opinion, it is an uphill battle.

Richard

 

[Chris Byrne]

I have one.Let me say I love it.It looks great,hits great good balance ect.All true.

But this from his site has me wondering:


Now...if you check ebay,you willl find more then a handful of cues by DP.
Check next week too..pick any day.Based on my last few monthes of looking you will find the same in a few months I'd guess.

I love the stick (I really do) but how the hell am I to believe that these two guys not only finish many sticks a week but also must be starting many a week as well?

My logic says that aint happ'n.
What the perception out there?

If you love it that is all that matters. Yours could have been made earlier or too a higher standard than those on ebay. I personally haven't seen any of the newer cues so I cannot speak to their quality. Chris.

 

[Hidy Ho]

If one believes there's no such thing as bad publicity, then Dale Perry is getting his money's worth on this forum.

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

The Internet and current pricing ......

Thanks to the Internet, customers are more informed than ever, and also more knowledgable. They now have more information, and are able to compare and educate themselves before making a purchase.

I think the market of the $5000+ cues are not affected as much by these factors, because the supply of cues in such a market has not really increased--but those selling cues in the less than $2000 are certainly suffering.

Between 1996 and 2001 I made a very good living marketing Real Rolex Watches (and other High-end Swiss brands in the same price range) on the Internet ... It was in it's infancy then and only a few of us were out there selling watches of that calibre at discounted prices ... It was absolutely FREE to advertise your watches on two different websites, WatchNet & TimeZone, and many European wholesalers would sell directly to us even though we did not have a storefront ... Without the outrageous overhead which burdens the retail stores, we were selling $5,000 - $25,000 Rolexes, etc. at a 25-30% discount and still realizing a tidy profit ...
Fast-Forward to 2007 : Now you can find ANY of those High-end Swiss Watches on any number of websites at decently discounted prices, so guys like me were pushed aside and relegated to marketing other things, such a High-End Pool Cues, etc. The Market for Watches over $40,000 & Pool Cues over $5000 is still alive and well ... It's the low to midrange items that move slowly, unless deeply discounted ...

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

Bad Publicity .....

If one believes there's no such thing as bad publicity, then Dale Perry is getting his money's worth on this forum.

Ask ANY Politician, Movie Star, Celebrity, Activist, etc. and they will tell you "All Publicity is Good" ...

 

[jjollie]

My DP Cues

I have 4 and I like them all...2 have Uni-lock joints and two have radial pins. I agree that Dale is selling alot of cues and thats good for him and HIS family. He has to make a living and he is doing what he knows best...I think he makes a damn fine cue myself but that's my opinion.

If Dale is making mass production like McDermott or Meucci then how can I order a cue from him with exactly the woods, inlay materials and cue design that I chose???

Just my .02...

 

[sky..]

If Dale is making mass production like McDermott or Meucci then how can I order a cue from him with exactly the woods, inlay materials and cue design that I chose???

Maybe he has two levels for his cue. Some are mass produced (lower quality) for ebay and some are custom made for special orders.

 

[John Barton]

Thanks for the replies all.

John,

So you are thinking it really is just two guys?Thata amazing if true.Thats a lot of cues being turned out and thats just whats on ebay.If it just these two fellas,they are taking effiecency to a whole new level.Maybe it is though,I don't really know,just wondering after seeing for sale day after day ect,so I was just searching for opinions (or direct knowledge) on the operation.

I do like my cue and would buy it again tomorrow for the same price I paid, so please don't think I'm bashing the guy or his cues.I have NO quality issues with it what so ever....and frankly I don't care how he sells em or for how much.

How many cues do you think they might turn out a year?

I don't "know" for sure that it is only two people who actually make the cues. It was only two people last time I was there and Dale really does have his shop set up to a HIGH level of efficiency.

This does bring up an interesting question though. Which is "better", a lot of people or a lot of machines? Which process produces better cues?

Since no cues are really hand-made and no machine builds a cue by itself I have to say that the "better" cue comes from the shop that can turn out consistent products. It's a balance between the people and machines and how well the people setup the machines.

Dale has no reason to lie about it. Would anyone really care if his "custom" cue shop had 20 people in it. Who cares as long as the customer is getting what they want at the price they want. He could say nothing or say he's got 50 people and it wouldn't affect his sales at all.

Most Stradivarious Violins were made by apprentices and there were lots of them.

The point with Dale Perry is that he has what I would term a "custom production" shop. This is one where he can make cues in an environment that gives him the efficiency of a production shop and the flexibility of a custom shop.

The cues are good for the money. And as far as current resale goes, for those who are concerned about flipping cues, what is the going rate for a real early Meucci or McDermott? Generally they are going for more than their original price. So just wait 30 years. Or accept the fact that the market has changed and Dale has changed with it.

I can't speak to Dale's current quality. I looked at some of his cues in Vegas last year and they looked and felt fine to me. What matters most though is that Ebay feedback. If his cues are so bad then why does he consistently get good feedback on Ebay? Ebay is the ultimate community shopping place. People don't get very far screwing their customers on Ebay.

 

[tom haney]

I don't "know" for sure that it is only two people who actually make the cues. It was only two people last time I was there and Dale really does have his shop set up to a HIGH level of efficiency.

This does bring up an interesting question though. Which is "better", a lot of people or a lot of machines? Which process produces better cues?

Since no cues are really hand-made and no machine builds a cue by itself I have to say that the "better" cue comes from the shop that can turn out consistent products. It's a balance between the people and machines and how well the people setup the machines.

Dale has no reason to lie about it. Would anyone really care if his "custom" cue shop had 20 people in it. Who cares as long as the customer is getting what they want at the price they want. He could say nothing or say he's got 50 people and it wouldn't affect his sales at all.

Most Stradivarious Violins were made by apprentices and there were lots of them.

The point with Dale Perry is that he has what I would term a "custom production" shop. This is one where he can make cues in an environment that gives him the efficiency of a production shop and the flexibility of a custom shop.

The cues are good for the money. And as far as current resale goes, for those who are concerned about flipping cues, what is the going rate for a real early Meucci or McDermott? Generally they are going for more than their original price. So just wait 30 years. Or accept the fact that the market has changed and Dale has changed with it.

I can't speak to Dale's current quality. I looked at some of his cues in Vegas last year and they looked and felt fine to me. What matters most though is that Ebay feedback. If his cues are so bad then why does he consistently get good feedback on Ebay? Ebay is the ultimate community shopping place. People don't get very far screwing their customers on Ebay.

I've got some pretty nice cues: Mottey, Bender, 2 Scruggs, Kikel,
Olney, Josey, and I really like my 2 DPs. One I bought a while back;
the other about a year ago. Hit-great. Quality-good.

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

Customer Service ... or the lack of ...

Customer Service is paramount in today's retail world where you can choose from countless Brands, Models, etc. and every retailer has the same merchandise at basically the same price ... What seperates them is their level of Customer Service (and in Dale Perry's case, the lack of any customer service) ... Quite possibly he is far too busy cranking out "cookie-cutter" cues to have time for ANY Customer Service ...

 

[Fatboy]

Thanks to the Internet, customers are more informed than ever, and also more knowledgable. They now have more information, and are able to compare and educate themselves before making a purchase.

I think the market of the $5000+ cues are not affected as much by these factors, because the supply of cues in such a market has not really increased--but those selling cues in the less than $2000 are certainly suffering.

Between 1996 and 2001 I made a very good living marketing Real Rolex Watches (and other High-end Swiss brands in the same price range) on the Internet ... It was in it's infancy then and only a few of us were out there selling watches of that calibre at discounted prices ... It was absolutely FREE to advertise your watches on two different websites, WatchNet & TimeZone, and many European wholesalers would sell directly to us even though we did not have a storefront ... Without the outrageous overhead which burdens the retail stores, we were selling $5,000 - $25,000 Rolexes, etc. at a 25-30% discount and still realizing a tidy profit ...
Fast-Forward to 2007 : Now you can find ANY of those High-end Swiss Watches on any number of websites at decently discounted prices, so guys like me were pushed aside and relegated to marketing other things, such a High-End Pool Cues, etc. The Market for Watches over $40,000 & Pool Cues over $5000 is still alive and well ... It's the low to midrange items that move slowly, unless deeply discounted ...

i have a friend who is currently making 30K-40K a month selling Rolex, Panari, AP, Patek etc. the watch is HUGE right(he works from home) now-hotter than ever, I wholesale him pieces all the time, we split the profit, the most expensive watch he sold was 185K-I didnt have a piece but I did once on a 90K watch, we made $4,000 ea. I have 10 Patek P. watches(considered the best watchs in the world they range from 9K to over $1,000,000) some I have I have tripled my $$ on in 3 years, others have doubled, its like stealing in that business right now, provided you have a good source-my friend buys watches from all over the world, he has been doing it full time about 4 years,

high end anything the market is awalys good because people with $$$ may be different people but there is still the $$ out there for expensive stuff, like the houses in Beverly hills only the names change on the mail box-they never sit vacent.