Dr. Dave SAWS calibration

bobbydee said:
Honestly I stopped watching DD a while ago. Too scientific for my taste. I do so much better just running drills and practicing than trying to figure out all this math junk. LOL
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Learn a banking and kicking system or two and after that tune out the nonsense. You train yourself to play this way and you will be overthinking everything and dogging important balls as a result.
 
JCraig said:
I think Dr Dave's SAWS method will give you a general guideline/understanding of where cue ball might end up when hitting with side spin. You should understand all of these calibrations will change with bridge length, elevation of the butt of the cue, cloth condition, humidity, rotation of the earth (just kidding).
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No, no, no. The Coriolis Force (rotation of the earth) has been mentioned as a possible factor in calibration.
JCraig said:
My point is that there are a lot variables involved in the use of side spin and solving those variables comes from experience. If your calibrations are not working out for you, it may be an indication of inconsistency of bridge length and/or cue butt elevation.
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Do 3-cushion players have consistency or inconsistency of bridge length and cue butt elevation? How about trick shot artists?
 
Everything he says in the video is exactly the way the physics is occurring. The problem is that Dr. Dave is actually a robot, and you're human. There will be in errors in your stroke and your contact with the cue ball. Work on overcoming those and the SAWS method will work for you too.
 
BlackMamba416 said:
Hi ,

I purchased Dr. Daves System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS) video.
I have a Predator REVO 11.8 mm shaft
i followed the instructions and filled out the table below

However, there are some times were this doesn't see to be working...
i'm unsure if i should simply do the calibration steps again?
has anyone else purchased this video? and if so, can you share your results? i know this will vary based off your cue

im a APA 4 and would like to start using SideSpin more in my game.

Thanks.

View attachment 774876
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sorry man this aint gonna do it
if you want to improve, take lessons they will show you what your doing wrong, how to do it right , and teach you what you want to know
 
boogieman said:
I appreciate what Dr. Dave has done for the game, but some of his stuff is just too much like traipsing in the weeds. Take SAWS for example. It's great that it exists, but other than it giving you an idea of the process I just don't see much more value.

I mean, calculating a table for something like this? Use it for what it is, the concept. Use it as a base to practice mastering side spin, but it all seems a bit silly? Knowing a chart won't make the shots for you. Make the chart if you like, but then be sure to use it as a baseline and practice each shot with progressive drills until you can make them 5-10X in a row. Then throw the chart away and work on the next weakest area of your game.

The dead accuracy of the chart isn't important, it's how you incorporate the info into your game, through practice.

And please don't misconstrue this. I think what Dr. Dave does is great. I just think that some of this stuff gets too far off the beaten path to be something for beginners to be working on. At an APA 4 you would be much better nailing your fundamentals and PSR. Work on that stuff while you're doing other drills/practicing shots that you find interesting or needed to improve your game. But fundamentals and PSR should always be the main part of your routine until they are mastered to the point they come naturally.

Look up some progressive drills and especially different variations of the wagon wheel drill to help master english. Always stay down on the shot and observe. That's how you learn. Learn throw and gearing english, these are very important concepts in the use of english. Shot making and position play are the same thing. It's a disservice to treat them as separate. Find some old straight pool matches and watch how precise they control the CB. Much of this is by using "throw." This is a good one. Watch with great interest just how little english they use, and pay particular attention to when and how they use it. The commentators are good on this match, so learn from them also.


Same. I do rely on him for concepts but once we start traipsing through the math book I find little value. The math is like a proof, but you have to put it to actual existence in the physical world and on the table. For me it's easier to just see what happens on the table, some may have a different approach, and that's okay too.

The physics of this game are entirely complicated, there's so many real world factors to apply that makes it so the math doesn't always add up. The concepts are sound but pool is more art than math. It helps to not be ignorant and know concepts while practicing but you don't need to do math to play pool.
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Yeah I've learned some pointers I used daily but most of the stuff I don;t need in my head when at the table trying to make a shot. I'd just over think and fail.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
No, no, no. The Coriolis Force (rotation of the earth) has been mentioned as a possible factor in calibration.

Do 3-cushion players have consistency or inconsistency of bridge length and cue butt elevation? How about trick shot artists?
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Ha Ha Ha oh yes the old Coriolis effect, maybe throw in some earth wobble as well. Exactly my point, bridge length/cue elevation can vary from shot to shot, thus the problem with DD SAWS method. BlackMamba asked why his calibration was failing and my guess was probable due to varying bridge length and/or cue elevation. I think that he might be getting a little ahead of himself. At his skill level and especially with a 11.8 mm shaft I bet he is having trouble hitting center cue ball and does not realize how critical it is to hit the vertical axis within a millimeter or two. I dedicate large portion of my practice time to stroke mechanics so that can hit the cue ball accurately.
 
JCraig said:
Ha Ha Ha oh yes the old Coriolis effect, maybe throw in some earth wobble as well.
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If THIS doesn't up your game and understanding of how to play pool as pool should be played, I don't know what will. Hard to imagine what Mosconi and Efren could have done if they knew about it and applied it to their knowledge and style. :eek:
(and there are those who freak out and degrade two simple words of the English vocabulary...center and edge)o_O

 
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Putting the cart before the horse seems to be more effective for critics than students.

As for students, the web encourages a lot of skipping around. It's a snap to know more than you understand and are able to do. "Little bit of knowledge..." syndrome certainly always in effect.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Shaft size doesn’t affect precision. The only time it makes any difference is hitting on the tip’s edge (with maximum spin).

pj
chgo
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In my experience, this did not seem to be the case. The smaller the tip diameter for me, the less "room for error" I seemed to have.
🤷
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Shaft size doesn’t affect precision. The only time it makes any difference is hitting on the tip’s edge (with maximum spin).

pj
chgo
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You're not looking at the whole picture. If they have an inconsistent stroke like a APA 4. A smaller shaft diamater is a huge margin of error. Meaning you need to be that more precise.
 
Zerksies said:
You're not looking at the whole picture. If they have an inconsistent stroke like a APA 4. A smaller shaft diamater is a huge margin of error. Meaning you need to be that more precise.
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Repeating the claim doesn’t make it true. Why does a smaller diameter miss more (hint: it doesn’t)?

P.S. The bigger the margin of error, the less precise you need to be.

pj
chgo
 
I think, in the hands of an APA4 -- who is thinking right english means hitting the CB somewhere on the right side -- a smaller shaft makes the game more difficult.

They do not have the knowledge and experience to have any clue as to what hitting the ball in a hundred different places will produce.

Lou Figueroa
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Repeating the claim doesn’t make it true. Why does a smaller diameter miss more (hint: it doesn’t)?
pj
chgo
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Would you please do a video for accuracy and post it showing how your 10mm tip works on all types of shots and offsets?
(I'll bet big bucks with anyone brave enough this will never happen, but a lot of double talk and snarky one liners will. The clock starts now)
 
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I'm afraid I have a different viewpoint than most in this thread on the subject of what I'd call more a more scientific way to learn this game. Most of the guys I know that spent the majority of their lives in pool halls will never run 70 balls. Yeah, you can try to teach yourself by doing countless hours of drills, and yeah, I agree most of the top players present and past have never dissected the game in a scientific manner.

Those that excel to a world class level are blessed to freakish hand eye coordination and enough determination to log thousands of hours of playing time. For the rest of us that don't fall into that category, I believe starting with a deeper lever of understanding of the fundamentals would give someone the foundation to excel past the average guy that hangs around the pool hall. Of course, all the knowledge in the world won't replace hundreds or even thousands of hours of playing time. For the average guy to have a chance to excel though, a deeper knowledge can only help.
 
fjk said:
I'm afraid I have a different viewpoint than most in this thread on the subject of what I'd call more a more scientific way to learn this game. Most of the guys I know that spent the majority of their lives in pool halls will never run 70 balls. Yeah, you can try to teach yourself by doing countless hours of drills, and yeah, I agree most of the top players present and past have never dissected the game in a scientific manner.

Those that excel to a world class level are blessed to freakish hand eye coordination and enough determination to log thousands of hours of playing time. For the rest of us that don't fall into that category, I believe starting with a deeper lever of understanding of the fundamentals would give someone the foundation to excel past the average guy that hangs around the pool hall. Of course, all the knowledge in the world won't replace hundreds or even thousands of hours of playing time. For the average guy to have a chance to excel though, a deeper knowledge can only help.
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You said: "I believe starting with a deeper level of understanding of the fundamentals would give someone the foundation to excel past the average guy that hangs around the pool hall."

I couldn't agree more. Question is, how and where? A forum? Books? YouTube videos or other videos to be played at home?
Live instruction with a qualified pool instructor? Pool table at a pool room, home table, or friend's table?
 
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