Dr. Dave SAWS calibration

[heater451]

Repeating the claim doesn’t make it true. Why does a smaller diameter miss more (hint: it doesn’t)?

P.S. The bigger the margin of error, the less precise you need to be.

pj
chgo

Patrick, I think the difference may be in where we place the "precision". To your point, the tip size wouldn't matter if the cue tip strikes the cue ball ON target. What I would argue is that the use of precision is in striking the cue ball at the intended point.

Take the tip size down to 2mm, for example. If the contact patch is in the same location as a strike with a 13mm tip, the resulting ball paths should be the same for both. But, having a stroke that delivers the tiny tip to the same point is going to be harder. [This makes me think that it could also be argued as one not being harder than the other, but remember, we're considering an inconsistent stroke ("APA4")].

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Same here. Before I created SAWS and incorporated it into my game, I would often miss sidespin shots (all all distances and speeds), especially those requiring lots of sidespin. SAWS dramatically improved by success percentage with no need for intuition/feel/judgement built from countless hours of successful practice and experience.

I'm happy for you that your success percentage has dramatically improved with no need for intuition/feel/judgement from SAWS. I believe you and your word.

I and many others have experienced the exact same thing with no need for intuition/feel/judgement in the way we aim
all shots that come up on the table. But I'll be damned if we aren't called every negative name in the book as being liars,
brain washed, living in LA-LA Land, Cult members, whacko's, etc., etc., etc. Can you imagine that? (etc backwards)

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Take the tip size down to 2mm, for example. If the contact patch is in the same location as a strike with a 13mm tip, the resulting ball paths should be the same for both. But, having a stroke that delivers the tiny tip to the same point is going to be harder. [This makes me think that it could also be argued as one not being harder than the other, but remember, we're considering an inconsistent stroke ("APA4")].

A larger tip will be just as inconsistent as a pinpoint one - you just can’t see the inconsistencies as easily with the larger tip hiding more from your sight.

It’s the stroke, not the tip.

pj
chgo

 

[Dunnn51]

Hi ,

I purchased Dr. Daves System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS) video.
I have a Predator REVO 11.8 mm shaft
i followed the instructions and filled out the table below

However, there are some times were this doesn't see to be working...
i'm unsure if i should simply do the calibration steps again?
has anyone else purchased this video? and if so, can you share your results? i know this will vary based off your cue

im a APA 4 and would like to start using SideSpin more in my game.

Thanks.

View attachment 774876

With DEEP respect for Dr. Dave and his breakdown analysis, I'll say this 'cuz itz e-z 2 remember!
Think of it like being with a woman......
The SLOWER you go; the MORE you will get,.....
Go FAST and there is little effect.
E Z 2 remember, right?!?

 

[heater451]

A larger tip will be just as inconsistent as a pinpoint one - you just can’t see the inconsistencies as easily with the larger tip hiding more from your sight.

It’s the stroke, not the tip.

pj
chgo

Again, the difference here is that the stroke has to (already) be consistent/correct for the tip to not matter.

I agree with the idea that the tip is "hiding more from your sight", but I'm saying that *using* the small tip will aid in improving the correctness of the stroke (considering aim-to-strike consistency).

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Again, the difference here is that the stroke has to (already) be consistent/correct for the tip to not matter.

Tip size doesn’t change the tip/ball contact point - only stroke does that.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

Tip size doesn’t change the tip/ball contact point - only stroke does that.

Tip diameter will affect (very slightly) how much unintended spin you get for a given stroke error. To the extent that people use more tip curvature on thinner shafts, the two will be correlated.

But I think any error multiplier due to either tip curvature or shaft diameter is going to be negligible, as in down in the 1% range. Beginners are not going to be more accurate with a 15mm shaft and a flat tip.

 

[heater451]

Tip size doesn’t change the tip/ball contact point - only stroke does that.

pj
chgo

This has gotten way off the point. I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you. However, I believe that you are missing what I've said.

I completely take the blame for not being able to explain my point better, and would try again, but I simply don't have the time right now.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Tip diameter will affect (very slightly) how much unintended spin you get for a given stroke error. To the extent that people use more tip curvature on thinner shafts, the two will be correlated.

I agree that tip curvature affects where on the tip contact is made, but that’s true, to the same degree, for tips of all sizes.

pj
chgo

 

[paymerick]

You went one month with ALMOST no spin. One month. Try it for 6 months with ZERO spin and see if you're still interested in playing pool.

I once did a Tor Lowry like stroke drill for a couple of weeks and I love the game as much as anyone I know and that's all I could muster.

It's the spin of the cue ball that truly mesmerizes and keeps serious players coming back.

I could have gone longer if I had to. Hell, the years before taking the game seriously I never used spin and still enjoyed the game. But once I got serious, I found that missing easy shots on the moneyball because my mechanics had gone to shit was more not fun than spin is fun, and upon some advice I just went back to working on my fundamentals, and it worked for me.

As I said, it's not a one-size-fits-all approach.

 

[dr_dave]

I agree that tip curvature affects where on the tip contact is made, but that’s true, to the same degree, for tips of all sizes.

For those interested, all tip shape and size effects are covered in great detail here:

Cue Tip Size and Shape Effects​

and the most important factors are covered in this video:

 

[maha]

yes dave good explanation as usual.

and for many who use a closed bridge a thicker shaft gives less movement in it and less off center hits by some amount.
and a larger slightly flatter tip will save you sometimes on a slightly off center hit from missing.

an off center hit as we all know is likely to add english and send the object ball more off course;
that is why the perfectly straight stroke is the most important part of pool. by far.

for the cash i can hit in more long straight in shots with a 14 mm shaft .
for more finesse in position and easier to see where i am hitting for english a smaller shaft is certainly better.
i still stick with the old fashion 13 mm and works for me.

 

[pvc lou]

Same here. Before I created SAWS and incorporated it into my game, I would often miss sidespin shots (all all distances and speeds), especially those requiring lots of sidespin. SAWS dramatically improved by success percentage with no need for intuition/feel/judgement built from countless hours of successful practice and experience.

What do you say me and you play a race to 10 onepocket for $20,000. You play with a phenolic tip, and I play with a regular leather tip.

It's an opportunity for you to demonstrate your true worth: pool skills, myth busting capacity (regarding tip hardness etc), and your overall credibility.

Let's get it on Doctor.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

What do you say me and you play a race to 10 onepocket for $20,000. You play with a phenolic tip, and I play with a regular leather tip.

It's an opportunity for you to demonstrate your true worth: pool skills, myth busting capacity (regarding tip hardness etc), and your overall credibility.

Let's get it on Doctor.

I'm liking this post! ACTION!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...a larger slightly flatter tip will save you sometimes on a slightly off center hit from missing.

Yes, and a smaller slightly flatter tip will do the same. It's the curvature (which in this case means the flatness), not the size.

pj <- yes, in pool too
chgo

 

[Texas Carom Club]

It’s as quiet as a church up in this mfer

 

[pvc lou]

It’s as quiet as a church up in this mfer

Be patient. It's siesta hour, I think.

 

[lfigueroa]

What do you say me and you play a race to 10 onepocket for $20,000. You play with a phenolic tip, and I play with a regular leather tip.

It's an opportunity for you to demonstrate your true worth: pool skills, myth busting capacity (regarding tip hardness etc), and your overall credibility.

Let's get it on Doctor.

This might need its own thread(s).

Lou Figueroa

 

[pvc lou]

This might need its own thread(s).

Lou Figueroa

Not only that, Lou...I may need to consult with you about getting this thing off the ground. You're an expert instigator. LOL

 

[dr_dave]

If anybody wants to learn more about SAWS, see the videos, articles, links, and answers to frequently asked questions about SAWS here:

SAWS resource page
​

SAWS certainly isn’t for everybody, especially “feel” players. But SAWS can be very helpful to those who don’t like guesswork and frequent misses when using sidespin.