draw shot poll - please respond

[jongreve]

Exactly how Id do it. Use some throw to make the ball so you can hit it fuller to garuntee getting past the side.

I'm with these guys.

Also, like someone else mentioned, not too hard. Just enough draw to be sure you clear the pocket, the side spin will also help it down table. I think of it as a clean 3-5" follow through shot, telling myself this helps with my execution.

 

[cleary]

Does the right or left spin even affect getting to that point? I always thought that side spin does not change the cue balls path until the cue ball touches the rail. So to get the cue ball back, it shouldnt matter what, if any spin you use.... right? It really just matters where you contact the object ball.

 

[worriedbeef]

Does the right or left spin even affect getting to that point? I always thought that side spin does not change the cue balls path until the cue ball touches the rail. So to get the cue ball back, it shouldnt matter what, if any spin you use.... right? It really just matters where you contact the object ball.

spin does indeed affect where the ball goes. line up a straight in shot and hit it softly with maximum left or right english. watch as the object ball goes off to the other side...

just be careful with this new found knowledge. overusing 'throw' can be very bad! don't get into the bad habit of slow rolling everything with maximum left or right english to throw the ball in! we've all been there!

 

[av84fun]

Due to the small scale of the diagram the exact set up of the balls,,,which is critical is not easy to accomplish and very small differences in ball placement can make a big difference.

I edited the diagram to show exactly where the balls lie. As diagramed on a 9 ft. table the shot requires a full body stretch for a player of average height.

In addition, as diagrammed, the shot looks quite different on the actual table. I suggest that it is not nearly the threat to scratch and would be difficult to get past the side pocket at all.

A half ball difference in placement makes the difference.

CueTable Help

You want not only to draw past the side pocket, but to draw as far past it (toward A) as you can. You're hitting with a normal level cue (not jacked up). Do you hit with straight low, low left, or low right?

CueTable Help

 

[dabarbr]

I use low right so that I can hit the object ball a little fuller.

Bingo!!!...... I'm with you and the Icon of Sin

 

[RRfireblade]

Probably just low. I don't think you need to hit it very hard either. Straight low , smooth and thru should do quite nicely.

 

[WesleyW]

Does the right or left spin even affect getting to that point? I always thought that side spin does not change the cue balls path until the cue ball touches the rail. So to get the cue ball back, it shouldnt matter what, if any spin you use.... right? It really just matters where you contact the object ball.

Not exactly. There are 2 things that will indeed effect the cue balls path. The first thing would been throw. Throw effects the object balls path. So you need to correct this by aiming fuller or thinner. Using follow or draw against a fuller or thinner cut will effect the path. The second is masse effect. Because we all jacked up the cue a little, the cue ball will get a masse. If you apply this shot correctly with low left (and there is no need to jack up your cue higher), you can completely miss the A spot and send the cue ball directly to the short rail. The cue balls path will be a bow, instead of a straight line. The only problem is, this is quite difficult to apply on a pool table, you need a good stroke. Try this on a carom table, and you will see what I'm talking about. The grip on a pool table is just a little less (due to faster cloth and light balls). But it's not impossible.

 

[smoooothstroke]

throw it

Low right,level cue.The right english will throw the object ball to the left allowing for a fuller hit.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

extreme low with a touch of right. I would play this the same weight as hitting the CB to the pocket. I would take a longer slower stroke and make sure to push through the CB. This stroke allows instant spin for this type of shot. I haven't the shot in the diagram, but I think I could get to point A.

Killers in this shot, punch or jab stroke , using left, or hitting hard.

 

[cuetable]

CueTable Help

Hi Mike:

Here is a great chance to use one of the least used function on CueTable: the tangent line.

From the way it looks, I'd say it's nearly impossible unless:

1, the player will need to have a really good finesse in his/her stroke to do this.

2, the balls are really dirty

Maybe Scott Lee or Bob Jewett can explain it better here

I will print out the layout and try it later this week in the pool room. Just to be sporty, I am guessing the bottom-right in this poll.

 

[cuetable]

Get Real Measurements From CueTable Layout

Due to the small scale of the diagram the exact set up of the balls,,,which is critical is not easy to accomplish and very small differences in ball placement can make a big difference.

I edited the diagram to show exactly where the balls lie. As diagramed on a 9 ft. table the shot requires a full body stretch for a player of average height.

In addition, as diagrammed, the shot looks quite different on the actual table. I suggest that it is not nearly the threat to scratch and would be difficult to get past the side pocket at all.

A half ball difference in placement makes the difference.

Jim,

There is a "Hidden Feature" in CueTable where it outputs the measurements for you. There is a keyboard short cut for it: Shift-R

Go to a CueTable layout, press Shift-R, switch to a text editor, and do Menu > Edit > Paste

Here is the output:

3 Ball: 38.61 in from left, 6.95 in from top
Cue Ball: 47.05 in from left, 12.23 in from top
Cue Ball A: 36.18 in from right, -2.64 in from top

 

[PetToilet]

At first instinct, I was thinking low-right. Hitting the ball more full should help, but if you're juicing the CB big-time with lots of draw and a hard stroke, not nearly as much SIT (spin-induced throw) would transfer than if you hit with stun-right with a slow/medium stroke. That means that in order to pocket the ball if low-right, you really won't be hitting the OB that much fuller than if you just hit with straight-low. EDIT: To be clear, I voted straight-low.

Great question Mike. I look forward to your answer.

the more you juice, the more the cue will follow the tangent line which is NOT what you want.

you want to hit it as soft as possible, and according to dr. dave's graphs to get most SIT.. what was it, 50% right english?

 

[fan-tum]

Imo softness of stroke is critical here to prevent the c.b deflecting before the draw can take effect. Therefore to facilitate softness I'd use low right.

 

[renard]

Exactly how Id do it. Use some throw to make the ball so you can hit it fuller to garuntee getting past the side.

Ditto.........

 

[mullyman]

The way it is drawn, I could hit this shot all day long with bottom right and NOT scratch.

A little steeper angle and then it might bring it closer to a scratch.

Russ......

Same here. There is no scratch there unless you hit it too hard. And the spin you use will be decided by what you want to do after you hit that rail. Personally, I'd hit it with low right, which Buddy Hall calls "helping english" on this, just because I'm comfortable cutting balls with outside english. I wouldn't worry about that scratch at all though........not if it's like it is in this diagram. Hit it with a smooth easy stroke and you should be able to draw right up to that side cushion with zero problems.
MULLY

 

[kaduku]

If you look at the following video at 2:45 from the '07 Predator World 10-Ball Championships it looks almost as if Shane has the same shot on the 6. However the 6 is a little closer to the pocket. It looks like he's using low-outside spin but scratches on the side pocket. He the 6 been on the spot as the cuetable diagram he woulda' hit point A as you put it.

http://propoolvideo.com/predator-wo...rld-10-ball-d.-orcullo-v.-s.-van-boening.html

 

[Moon Cricket]

Hi,

I just tried the shot you mention. I get closer to point A with straight LOW, but, with a snappy stroke. Low L puts me in the side pocket.

 

[jsp]

you want to hit it as soft as possible, and according to dr. dave's graphs to get most SIT.. what was it, 50% right english?

True, to get the most SIT you want to hit the shot as slowly as possible. But you also want to hit the CB with stun instead of draw. Any top/bottom english would reduce the amount of SIT that takes place. So in order to hit the OB as full as possible (and to make the shot), you'd have to hit the CB slowly with stun-right english...but that won't get the CB past point A much, or won't even reach point A at all.

I think the shot calls for as much draw (the highest spin/speed ratio) as possible...without miscuing of course. Any bit of right english would rob you of maximum draw.

Also, another significant factor that we're overlooking is the direction of the CB spin (top-to-bottom spin, not side spin) immediately after contact with the OB. To get the CB off the rail, you want to have the CB spin as perpendicular as possible away from the rail. Any right spin would reduce this perpendicular spin component.

I still think straight-low is the way to go...as low as possible. I think that's exactly how I would instinctively hit that shot if I encountered it. But hey, I still could be wrong.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...as diagrammed, the shot looks quite different on the actual table. I suggest that it is not nearly the threat to scratch and would be difficult to get past the side pocket at all.

This is true. If set up carefully it's impossible for me to get the CB past the side pocket with any stroke or english (and a level cue). I can barely get the CB to scratch in the side pocket with straight centerball draw, but not with any sidespin.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... If you apply this shot correctly with low left (and there is no need to jack up your cue higher), you can completely miss the A spot and send the cue ball directly to the short rail.

Dreamer.

pj
chgo