Draw shots with low deflection shafts

[9Ballr]

I have never used low deflection shafts but am open to the idea.
Before I invest money in it I wanted to ask if your draw shots, and follow too, changed when you switched?

Reason why I ask is because I understand when shooting with english the shaft very quickly goes out of the way of the cue ball, thus causing minimum effect to its path.
So wouldn't the shaft the just as easily go out of the way on draws and follows and cause a miss-cue?

Ultimately it's gotta work or no one would be using these things.

 

[softshot]

I have never used low deflection shafts but am open to the idea.
Before I invest money in it I wanted to ask if your draw shots, and follow too, changed when you switched?

Reason why I ask is because I understand when shooting with english the shaft very quickly goes out of the way of the cue ball, thus causing minimum effect to its path.
So wouldn't the shaft the just as easily go out of the way on draws and follows and cause a miss-cue?

Ultimately it's gotta work or no one would be using these things.

no no no...

look you're in Texas Go see RandyG.. as fast as you can.. he'll help you separate reality from advertising.. and show you how to fix what actually matters...

 

[Straightpool_99]

...........

 

[AlexandruM]

When I changed from standard 13mm maple shaft to a 314/2 Predator shaft, I felt that follow shots especial, and the draw shots are easier to execute, now I can execute them with both shafts without problem.
If that is only reason you want a LD shaft, than it don't worths.

PS Spend money on a good instructor is the best way to go.

 

[Needing weight]

If you want maximum English I.e. 'draw or follow' then use a thin diameter shaft, say 10.5mm or 11mm and in this regard a non LD shaft may also be able to apply the most spin/English.

If u want the shaft to react/deflect the same way every time on every shot so that the CB will squirt the same way every time then your gonna have to get a LD shaft.

I love the Z2

I can apply more than enough English to any shot with my Z2. I can draw the cue ball at least two table lengths(18').

I highly recommend the use of LD shafts.

 

[bobforest]

Personally, i found that I got more draw with less 'effort' when i switched to OB (from a 314-2, which i always found quite similar to a standard maple shaft). I don't want an argument about why what where when... it's my personal experience.

I did also find that I get a lot of unintentional side spin with this shaft which is concerning me. It could be that LD shafts highlight weaknesses in your stroke - mine definitely needs more practice time than i can afford to give right now...

A friend of mine bought an OB shaft at the same time as me, and he has switched back to a 314-2 because he was miscueing too much.

Conclusions? you'll only find out when you try it yourself. The differences of opinion on here regarding LD shafts is merely a reflection of our different tastes, preferences, skills, experience, style... etc

Cheers

Bob

 

[icucybe]

Personally, i found that I got more draw with less 'effort' when i switched to OB (from a 314-2, which i always found quite similar to a standard maple shaft). I don't want an argument about why what where when... it's my personal experience.

I did also find that I get a lot of unintentional side spin with this shaft which is concerning me. It could be that LD shafts highlight weaknesses in your stroke - mine definitely needs more practice time than i can afford to give right now...

A friend of mine bought an OB shaft at the same time as me, and he has switched back to a 314-2 because he was miscueing too much.

What OB Shaft did you guys try OB PRO? OB classic should be similar to 314. Have you tried Z2?

I feel I am more precise with the draw shot using LD shaft compared to regular maple. But I think is mainly bc the tip is smaller.

 

[Pushout]

no no no...

look you're in Texas Go see RandyG.. as fast as you can.. he'll help you separate reality from advertising.. and show you how to fix what actually matters...

This^. By all means. Sure, it may be easier to apply english with a smaller tip/shaft but really......

 

[naji]

I have never used low deflection shafts but am open to the idea.
Before I invest money in it I wanted to ask if your draw shots, and follow too, changed when you switched?

Reason why I ask is because I understand when shooting with english the shaft very quickly goes out of the way of the cue ball, thus causing minimum effect to its path.
So wouldn't the shaft the just as easily go out of the way on draws and follows and cause a miss-cue?

Ultimately it's gotta work or no one would be using these things.

For a successful Draw or follow the tip has to strike the CB as low as you want the CB to draw or follow; and power for how much you need to draw. Tip placement is straight forward; however, many players on forward stroke tend to raise cue up a little and loose a bit of the draw action; power comes from following through otherwise your brain issues the command to stop the cue at middle of the shot and loose all the power or jerk your hand if you have loose grip to begin with, always follow through as much as you can, ( i call it tip hugs CB a fraction of a second longer)

Some people have tight grip so follow through is needed but usually not as long as with loose grip, like Mike Massey power draw, he says follow through a lot, but he actually does not on execution.

LD vs HD cues, is extremely critical principle and one must gain comprehensive understanding of the subject to know how to play pool. Only when you know how to shoot accurately with both types (every possible english shot) you earn your graduate degree; then it becomes a preference. I wish Dr. Dave introduce this in his pool university curricula !

 

[ENGLISH!]

I have never used low deflection shafts but am open to the idea.
Before I invest money in it I wanted to ask if your draw shots, and follow too, changed when you switched?

Reason why I ask is because I understand when shooting with english the shaft very quickly goes out of the way of the cue ball, thus causing minimum effect to its path.
So wouldn't the shaft the just as easily go out of the way on draws and follows and cause a miss-cue?

Ultimately it's gotta work or no one would be using these things.

9ballr,

I've played with regular shafts for 45 yrs. & using english for all of them. I'd highly recommend an LD shaft. That said, there are differences.

I 1st. pick up a Predator 314 CAT shaft that had been 'juiced', sanded down. The draw action was great but so was the side spin, so much so, that I could not use it on long full table shots as the spin would way more than counter the squirt. Plus I did not like the whippy aspect of it, but it was great in close quarters.

I then got an OB Classic & a McDermott i2. I really like them both. They feel just like a regular shaft but with much less cue ball squirt.

Here's the thing concerning draw & shaft deflection/ CB squirt. A spinning ball spins longer with less friction on it so when a a ball is spinning while in contact with the cloth the spin is being reduced by the friction. So, on certain longer draw shots if the shaft does not squirt the ball into the air off the cloth but keeps it on the cloth for more time then the spin will be reduced.

I would certainly recommend an LD shaft to anyone mid play level down that wants to improve their game. Above that level it is up to them for various reasons.

Now that being said, a LD shaft is not a magic pill or a silver bullet & I would agree that one's stroke & knowledge are much more important.

Whether one spends the money on an instructor or uses DVD's, books, or YouTube to improve their stroke is up to them. But in either case I'd rather be doing it with & play with a LD shaft & use a house cue to learn the physics principles.

Good Luck with whatever decision you make.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[bobforest]

What OB Shaft did you guys try OB PRO? OB classic should be similar to 314. Have you tried Z2?

I feel I am more precise with the draw shot using LD shaft compared to regular maple. But I think is mainly bc the tip is smaller.

OB Classic Pro. haven't tried any other OB shafts - don't see many here in China - i ordered mine from the states.

I haven't tried a Z2 yet either - although some guys i know from local tournaments have them - might try to borrow one - but i'm not sure i'm at the level/experience to notice much of a difference. i have issues with my fundamentals that need to be urgently addressed first.

Another point is that I also switched to a Kamui black M tip (from everest) when i switched shaft. I have wondered if this had any effect on the extra draw/follow/spin i have experienced....

Bob

 

[bobforest]

Now that being said, a LD shaft is not a magic pill or a silver bullet & I would agree that one's stroke & knowledge are much more important.

Spot on. It may or may not help - but it sure ain't gonna work miracles.

Bob

 

[ideologist]

I have never used low deflection shafts but am open to the idea.
Before I invest money in it I wanted to ask if your draw shots, and follow too, changed when you switched?

Reason why I ask is because I understand when shooting with english the shaft very quickly goes out of the way of the cue ball, thus causing minimum effect to its path.
So wouldn't the shaft the just as easily go out of the way on draws and follows and cause a miss-cue?

Ultimately it's gotta work or no one would be using these things.

I find that I miscue with extreme draw more often with an LD shaft.

 

[Houstoer]

no no no...

look you're in Texas Go see RandyG.. as fast as you can.. he'll help you separate reality from advertising.. and show you how to fix what actually matters...

This is a great piece of advise. If not Randy G book some lessons with CJ wiley. I have a z2 shaft. I can draw with it; normal shaft, bar cue doesn't matter. Its much more about the stroke than the shaft.

 

[icucybe]

I find that I miscue with extreme draw more often with an LD shaft.

Honestly I consider myself better than avarage player and I can draw with any cue no problem. I even played for fun or gambling beers sometimes with a cue that has no tip or ferrule in a bar close to work and I can even draw a bit with it too. You should not be miscueing as long as you use chalk before each shot no matter what shaft.

OB Classic Pro. haven't tried any other OB shafts - don't see many here in China - i ordered mine from the states.

I haven't tried a Z2 yet either - although some guys i know from local tournaments have them - might try to borrow one - but i'm not sure i'm at the level/experience to notice much of a difference. i have issues with my fundamentals that need to be urgently addressed first.

Another point is that I also switched to a Kamui black M tip (from everest) when i switched shaft. I have wondered if this had any effect on the extra draw/follow/spin i have experienced....

Bob

You prob feel the same way with the Z2 as you did with the OB Pro. The tip in this cue's is a lot smaller so a more precise stroke is best to hit the cue ball where you intend to since the sweet spot is smaller. But in time you will make the adjustments and love it or hate it. I wonder how OB classic would work for you copmpared to OB Pro.

When I first bought my McDermott with a 12.75mm tip I had to get used to it. Mostly bc of smaller size tip compared to regular 13mm shafts and bar cues that I learned to play for years. As a result I have a different stroke thanks to it bc I had to work on it to get better and consistent with this cue. Now my close bridge is tighter and I use a longer back stroke for power to be more accurate. Dealing with the difference between LD and HD shafts wasent much of an issue. The issue mostly was how lose or tight it feels in my grip since I play mostly with a close grip and at first it felt too lose with my new cue. Now I use a different closed grip and feels tight and secure.

 

[ideologist]

Honestly I consider myself better than avarage player and I can draw with any cue no problem. I even played for fun or gambling beers sometimes with a cue that has no tip or ferrule in a bar close to work and I can even draw a bit with it too. You should not be miscueing as long as you use chalk before each shot no matter what shaft.

My stroke is pretty solid. Willie Hoppe called me inferior and it forced me to overhaul everything about it. I just find that the extreme contact points on the CB are miscued more with LD shafts. It probably has to do with the shaft bending.

 

[dr_dave]

I have never used low deflection shafts but am open to the idea.
Before I invest money in it I wanted to ask if your draw shots, and follow too, changed when you switched?

You should not experience any significant difference with draw and follow shots. For more info, see getting more spin with an LD shaft.

FYI, low cue ball deflection (AKA LD, AKA "low squirt") shafts have both advantages and disadvantages.

Reason why I ask is because I understand when shooting with english the shaft very quickly goes out of the way of the cue ball, thus causing minimum effect to its path.
So wouldn't the shaft the just as easily go out of the way on draws and follows and cause a miss-cue?

The "getting out of the way" actually helps prevent the chance for a bad hit at large cue tip offsets (where a double-hit miscue is possible with a shaft that is heavy and/or stiff close to the tip).

Regards,
Dave

 

[CreeDo]

Miscues are based on where the tip hits the ball, not on how the tip bends away from the ball.
After a millesecond, the ball is no longer touching the tip. It doesn't care what happens after that (unless you hit it again).
Once the ball is not touching the tip, it can bend away, or smack into the table, or get set on fire,
and it won't affect that cue ball.

A lot of people are buying an LD shaft for the wrong reasons.
They think it will fix some problem in their stroke, their ability to draw or spin or control the cue ball,
Or they buy cuz everyone else has one.

There is only one very specific thing LD shafts do for you.
I think that one thing is very useful so I bought one.
Here's an explanation (a little longwinded, sorry) of that One Thing:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4250445&postcount=13

 

[nobcitypool]

My stroke is pretty solid. Willie Hoppe called me inferior and it forced me to overhaul everything about it. I just find that the extreme contact points on the CB are miscued more with LD shafts. It probably has to do with the shaft bending.

Not the case. You may experience more miscues because you're effectively going out further on the CB. Or, said differently, the effective point where the smaller LD shaft is contact the CB is actually further out than it was with the standard sized shaft. It's the same reason some people believe you get more draw with a smaller LD shaft than with a standard sized shaft. They're actually hitting lower on the CB and don't realize it.

 

[9Ballr]

Thanks fellas.
I greatly appreciate all your replies.

Just want to make one thing clear I am not having any problems with my draw shots.
I don't know what about my post made some of you think I was having such problems and
start recommending I take lessons, which is fine and I appreciate your recommendations
but I am simply not having any problems with my draw shots.

I posted because I wanted to know about how the low deflection shafts work on draws
and follows, is all. Thanks to those who answered this concern perfectly.

Thanks again, I learned a lot from this post.