Drawing Back Straight

Without video or pictures it`s really hard to say, But the common problems is on or a combination of these:

- Wrong alignment
- Gripping the cue too hard
- Not following through straight
- Hesitating to follow through, when striking the OB
- Too high cue elevation
- Bridge too lose
- Twisting the wrist or arm

But the most common seems to be that people tense up in anticipation of the shot, The longer the draw, the more cramped and tense the player becomes.

Look at players with good fluidity in their stroke. Mika Immonen and Earl Strickland are great examples.
 
There has been lots of good advice in this thread already; but for those interested, a complete summary and demonstrations of important technique advice and useful drills for a good draw stroke are available on the draw shot technique resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
Kim Bye said:
Without video or pictures it`s really hard to say, But the common problems is on or a combination of these:

- Wrong alignment
- Gripping the cue too hard
- Not following through straight
- Hesitating to follow through, when striking the OB
- Too high cue elevation
- Bridge too lose
- Twisting the wrist or arm

But the most common seems to be that people tense up in anticipation of the shot, The longer the draw, the more cramped and tense the player becomes.

Look at players with good fluidity in their stroke. Mika Immonen and Earl Strickland are great examples.
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Bridge too loose...you shout see Earl's bridge up close. I've taken several lessons from him and you would be shocked how loose his bridge is. He basically doesn't want the shaft to touch *anything* lol. Its a pretty big deal to him. He wants zero resistance to his stroke. After trying some of the things he suggested, I can really see where he is coming from!

KMRUNOUT
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Bridge too loose...you shout see Earl's bridge up close. I've taken several lessons from him and you would be shocked how loose his bridge is. He basically doesn't want the shaft to touch *anything* lol. Its a pretty big deal to him. He wants zero resistance to his stroke. After trying some of the things he suggested, I can really see where he is coming from!

KMRUNOUT
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He should just use an open bridge...
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Well, it makes sense that you would prefer to view it as semantics. In reality, you made a point that was wrong in 2 ways. I was correcting you. Most don't like to be corrected. Some react defensively.

While factual information may be "pointless" to you, it may not be for others. So when you say "you can't draw on the rail", I wish to correct this misinformation.

It didn't derail anything. It simply caught *your* attention because you were the one being corrected. If you have such a problem with your claims being challenged, I would advise either improve the accuracy of your claims, or don't make claims. The forum isn't your personal sounding board. It is potentially a source of information for many. I prefer that that information be accurate. You are welcome to not care about that.

Also, it originally appeared that you had made a separate post correcting your take on what the OP said. (As opposed to editing). As long as we are being accurate. As I said, I made my post before reading your second correction post. Try to lighten up. You were wrong. Get over it.

KMRUNOUT
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**KMRUNOUT STATUS UPDATED TO TENACIOUS PEDANT.**

"a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details."

The extremely narrow set of circumstances where it it useful to attempt to draw off a rail renders it moot, something only a pedant would obsess over. For all practical purposes, you cannot draw off a rail.


However, since you said "You *can* draw with the cue ball on the rail, but it is far more difficult" with no further qualification you can obviously achieve any type of draw shot from tight on the rail, right? I mean, you're telling people to be accurate and making "corrections", so all you posts can be taken to mean exactly what was said? Or is this misinformation that should be corrected? Tsk Tsk.

Please set up the shot described in post 33 "setting a ball between the centre pockets with the cueball tight to bottom rail and see how often you can draw the cueball to within two inches of the spot" and let me know how many times out of ten you nail it. Go get 'em, champ!

For the record, this *has* derailed the thread, as it has nothing to do with what that OP posted about. More misinformation. Tsk Tsk.

I never said factual information was pointless. More misinformation. Tsk Tsk.

People in glass houses, eh?
 
If you are not drawing back straight, then you are hitting the ball crooked/off line. You can draw back perfectly straight with a vice like grip (ask CJ or Earl) or with a huge degree of elevation (many on here can jump a ball and still draw back on line), bridge looseness is not much of a factor if your stroke is straight and on line, heck you can even draw back straight one handed, jacked up. You don't even need very much follow through to draw the ball back straight.

The only thing that's going to really help is to get the alignment/aim and stroke in order. If you can't see the center of the cueball correctly (vision center problem), you can't stroke straight (stroke problem) or your bridgehand is off line, then no other advice can help you. Elevation or grip pressure (unless you grab the cue just before impact, that will do it) will not in and of itself cause you to draw back crooked, nor will a loose bridge. Before trying the other things video yourself from the front to see if you are aligned and stroking straight! You can test what I first suggested too, but the camera (rarely) lies.
 
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KMRUNOUT said:
It could mean a lot of things. Having analyzed Efren's stroke, and having taken lessons with him in person, I have noticed some things about how he delivers the cue. You can gain information, or you can defend your position. It does not seem like you can do both.

Glad you are amused. A positive side effect for sure. Curious...what assumption did I make? "relax your grip" is very similar to "release your cue." The re-gripping part I did not address. It is essentially irrelevant to the support I was attempting to lend to the "releasing your cue" idea.

There is no requirement that you understand or value what I have to say.

KMRUNOUT
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Well hold on Mrs Correction! Some consistency, please. Let's try and be accurate here, eh? Wouldn't want any misinformation to get posted! Definitions per the context in which they were used.

Relax
to make less tense, rigid, or firm; make lax

Release
liberation from anything that restrains or fastens.

It's quite clear that relaxing your grip is VERY different to releasing your cue! You can have a relaxed grip and still maintain contact with and control of the cue. If you release the cue you have no contact with or control over cue. At all!

I haven't expressed an opinion over the use of a relaxed grip, only that letting go of the cue is technically poor. You were supporting this notion. It's hokum! Would you like to correct yourself?!
 
Pidge said:
He should just use an open bridge...
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Well, Earl's resume of World Championships and US Opens, and countless other tourney wins, probably indicates that his own ideas of what he should do are probably right for him...certainly more informed than ideas you or I might offer him. Earl really knows his stuff about pool. Maybe he could take some advice on the mental game. But again, see my first sentence...

KMRUNOUT
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Well, Earl's resume of World Championships and US Opens, and countless other tourney wins, probably indicates that his own ideas of what he should do are probably right for him...certainly more informed than ideas you or I might offer him. Earl really knows his stuff about pool. Maybe he could take some advice on the mental game. But again, see my first sentence...

KMRUNOUT
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He doesn't need any advice on the mental game, he needs a personality transplant.
 
Blue Jam said:
**KMRUNOUT STATUS UPDATED TO TENACIOUS PEDANT.**
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If this makes you happy.


Blue Jam said:
The extremely narrow set of circumstances where it it useful to attempt to draw off a rail renders it moot, something only a pedant would obsess over. For all practical purposes, you cannot draw off a rail.
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I don't see anyone "obsessing" over anything. I mean, it is very clear that you don't like any input or correction to the things you say. I don't believe the narrowness of the set of circumstances enters into the discussion at all. For example, the circumstances for a mild masse are few and far between. Yet when that situation comes up, it sure is nice to know the shot. I believe specifically *for practical purposes*, you CAN draw off a rail. You don't have to believe it. Your lack of belief has little bearing on the reality. Just for you, I recorded a video tonight. It took about 3 seconds to come up with a situation in which it is practical to draw when the cueball is frozen to a rail. If I can figure it out, I'll post the video here.

https://youtu.be/UoHY723P9CU


Blue Jam said:
However, since you said "You *can* draw with the cue ball on the rail, but it is far more difficult" with no further qualification you can obviously achieve any type of draw shot from tight on the rail, right? I mean, you're telling people to be accurate and making "corrections", so all you posts can be taken to mean exactly what was said? Or is this misinformation that should be corrected? Tsk Tsk.
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Um...I think you missed the point. You are correct that I said you *can* draw with the cueball on the rail. You can. There are many situations in which it is useful. Is it easy? Not really. Sometimes...sometimes not. It really depends on the situation, and your level of proficiency with the shot. I don't believe anything I said here or in a previous post in this thread is in need of any correction. If you think so, you are welcome to quote whatever I said that is in error, and offer whatever corrections you wish. I will not cry or call you a "pedant", so don't worry. I like knowledge.

Blue Jam said:
Please set up the shot described in post 33 "setting a ball between the centre pockets with the cueball tight to bottom rail and see how often you can draw the cueball to within two inches of the spot" and let me know how many times out of ten you nail it. Go get 'em, champ!
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What do you believe this would prove? I mean, I can ride a bike with no hands. It is possible. I can coast down a hill and take my hands off the handle bars. Can I do jumps or go mountainbiking with no hands? No. Obviously. The fact that you can come up with an example that is extremely difficult does not invalidate the multitude of situations which are not excessively difficult.

Blue Jam said:
For the record, this *has* derailed the thread, as it has nothing to do with what that OP posted about. More misinformation. Tsk Tsk.
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Nah. It hasn't. No one has taken part in our back and forth except you and I. The rest of the thread is right where it was. You are again mistaken.

Blue Jam said:
I never said factual information was pointless. More misinformation. Tsk Tsk.
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Nor did I say you did. Again, you are mistaken.

Blue Jam said:
People in glass houses, eh?
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I don't believe that analogy applies here.

However, since the OP posted about drawing straight, I figured I'd post a video on that too. The quality is terrible. But you can get the idea. In this one, the object ball is a hair off the side rail and about a diamond form the corner pocket. The cue ball is deep in the jaws of the opposite corner pocket. I need to jack up. This is pretty tough to draw back straight. I think I did a good job. I spent about 50 seconds on this video. Luckily I did the shot on the first try. I'm sure many can do this...my point isn't to brag. However, I am pretty sure I know how to pocket a ball and draw straight back. I'd be happy to discuss any techniques.

https://youtu.be/ITJr7cgHMOg

Hope it helps!

KMRUNOUT
 
I don't see anyone "obsessing" over anything.
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:eek: Your seven quote two video response says otherwise!

OK, I'll try and make this as plain as possible. Do try to keep up. What you said "You *can* draw with the cue ball on the rail, but it is far more difficult". That's simply not true without further qualification. FACT. Otherwise you are not restricting the scenarios in which being able to draw the cueball or the amount of draw that can be applied. What you have said, whether you think you're correct or not, is that the cueball on the rail only makes drawing the cueball more difficult but it's otherwise not limited by being on the rail. This is misinformation. Sorry this clearly upsets you. As misinformation is something you are keen to avoid, I am happy to correct you.

"when the cueball is frozen to a rail it's possible to put a massively reduced amount of draw on the cueball with far less control and range than when the cueball is not on a rail".

I still believe that in the context of normal play this shot is so limited as to be irrelevant, you are free to disagree as I'm sure you will, but if you're going to call people out for not being accurate enough you should make sure you apply the same standards to yourself. :rolleyes:


Now, about this throwing the cue......
 
Blue Jam said:
[/COLOR]

:eek: Your seven quote two video response says otherwise!

OK, I'll try and make this as plain as possible. Do try to keep up. What you said "You *can* draw with the cue ball on the rail, but it is far more difficult". That's simply not true without further qualification. FACT. Otherwise you are not restricting the scenarios in which being able to draw the cueball or the amount of draw that can be applied. What you have said, whether you think you're correct or not, is that the cueball on the rail only makes drawing the cueball more difficult but it's otherwise not limited by being on the rail. This is misinformation. Sorry this clearly upsets you. As misinformation is something you are keen to avoid, I am happy to correct you.

"when the cueball is frozen to a rail it's possible to put a massively reduced amount of draw on the cueball with far less control and range than when the cueball is not on a rail".

I still believe that in the context of normal play this shot is so limited as to be irrelevant, you are free to disagree as I'm sure you will, but if you're going to call people out for not being accurate enough you should make sure you apply the same standards to yourself. :rolleyes:


Now, about this throwing the cue......
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Let's try it this way:

This:

Blue Jam said:
What you said "You *can* draw with the cue ball on the rail, but it is far more difficult". That's simply not true without further qualification. FACT.
Click to expand...

Now This:

https://youtu.be/UoHY723P9CU

So, yeah...it is true without further qualification. The ball was on the rail. I drew the ball. It was tougher than if it wasn't on the rail. This perfectly satisfies the condition in my statement that you contend.

If you want what I said to mean what you are trying to say, then yes, you would have to say something different.

Your sentence, "when the cueball is frozen to a rail it's possible to put a massively reduced amount of draw on the cueball with far less control and range than when the cueball is not on a rail".

Yeah um, I wasn't trying to say that at all. My only point was whether one *can*, or *can not* draw the ball when frozen to the rail. You said can't. I said can. I'd say my video supports what I said, and contradicts what you said.

What now?

KMRUNOUT
 
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