drill for checking alignment/center hit

[BRKNRUN]

Same here, that "drill" is worthless.

I watched Efren warm up for a match..(live and in person)....He walked up to the table and rolled the ball to the side rail and back to his cue tip...He did that two or three times...He then proceeded to hit the ball with some pace two or three times...then he hit it with pace and draw two or three times...all the while watching if the ball was traveling in a straight line back and forth across the table........."Pretty Worthless"...

 

[I rack balls]

I watched Efren warm up for a match..(live and in person)....He walked up to the table and rolled the ball to the side rail and back to his cue tip...He did that two or three times...He then proceeded to hit the ball with some pace two or three times...then he hit it with pace and draw two or three times...all the while watching if the ball was traveling in a straight line back and forth across the table........."Pretty Worthless"...

He might have been checking for table roll/rail bounciness (hah bounciness).

Eric.

 

[BRKNRUN]

He might have been checking for table roll/rail bounciness (hah bounciness).

Eric.

I don't thing so.......unless he was just checking the same rail over and over....I am 99.9999999% certain he was checking his stroke to see if he was hitting center CB......and center Draw...

 

[JoeyA]

The post right before this one shows how I learned to align the eye for aiming. Unfortunately, there are too many posts and a new page had to be created. Please jump back one page.

I also have trouble with aiming. In general I use a variation of the ghost ball, compensating for throw and deflection. I also use what I call a 9” nail through the object ball to the back of the pocket. This seems to work about 90% of the time. It is the other 10% that really bugs me ! Is there a better way to aim?

On the one hand it seems that I do not need to line up the exact center of the object ball to the pocket, just the vertical center. On the other hand, I don’t trust or believe that anything other than a site through the exact ccenter of the object ball with a 9” nail works. Hmmm

I have learned that staying low on the cue stick and watching the cue ball travel and letting the stick touch the bed on follow through helps.

Shortening the swing, locking the back leg and aiming by moving my hips helps.

None-the-less, I can’t get past the 90% accuracy level. There must be a better way. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Joe, I believe that other 10% comes from ROTE, unfortunately. I do like your photo and table layout. I would not give up on the single eye aiming. For accuracy, try lining up a shot by closing your non-dominant eye or your weakest eye, aiming as if you were aiming a rifle. Make the shot a simple shot, maybe even a straight in shot. For me, whe I close my left eye, I see the shot accurately and can see where the cue ball will make contact with the object ball. If I do not move and open my other eye, the shot looks wrong but if I pull the trigger without trying to adjust what I am seeing, the ball goes in the hole. I only do this in practice at this time but it seems to work. When in competition I try to rely on instinct. You might give that a try if you haven't already done so. The key is making sure that you don't readjust your body/head etc. after lining up with the one eye open.

Good luck. I will follow this thread because I too believe that there are other ways to aim more accurately. I am sure alignment is the main key, followed my consistent eye pattern movement(at least for me) with no absolutely no moving parts of the body while stroking except for the forearm, wrist and hand. To say that a relaxed grip is needed is an understatement. Not following the needed execution in any of these areas can easily result in the cue ball going where you didn't intend for it to go.

A good instructor/COACH can watch your eye movement to confirm that you are looking at the right thing at the right time as well as checking for body movement.

JoeyA

 

[JoeW]

Thanks JoeyA, I will try that. I think I am about ready to blow some money on a good instructor to get my game to the next level. But that is another story.

Let me state a hypothesis and see where it goes.

All players are two eyed shooters.

In the sciences we make a statement and then let the facts speak for themselves. A bold statement like this is needed so we have something to test.

Playing pool is substantially different than shooting a pistol or a bow and arrow. There are several additional variables. When shooting (pistol or arrow) it is about aiming point to point for range or sport shooting.

When playing pool it is probably inappropriate to call it “shooting.” The player is literally rolling a 2 ¼” ball to make contact with another 2 ¼” ball. In this scenario it is necessary to consider the center of both balls and to consider the edges of both balls. Aiming involves shooting through the cue ball and estimating edge contact on both balls so the object balls rolls down a specific line to do this one must estimate the center and the edge lines on the object ball. There are at least four lines to be considered.

In addition, a “shot” often requires the player to hit off center on the cue ball to obtain spin for cue ball positioning. Therefore, the player is aiming off center of the cue ball on two other lines while estimating center line travel and edge to edge contact.

All of this “aiming” is conducted from the third dimension relative to the two dimensions the balls are played on.

The next complicating factor involves the idea that the cue stick is very seldom level with the two dimensional playing field while the eyes are in this third dimension they are not located on the same line.

A pool player is estimating in three dimensions along at least nine different lines while considering the effects of spin on the object ball and on the cue ball to obtain a desired positional effect on at least two different points in the two dimensional playing field.

In this sense it is necessary to use both eyes to accomplish the task. Once the estimation has been accomplished it is still necessary to roll the cue ball considering at least three lines: center of the cue, edge of the object ball, and the line the cue stick is placed on to accomplish all of the above.

A “shot” can finally be reduced to rolling the cue ball along a line, given that everything else stays on “other” lines. This is not accomplished by placing the cue stick on that line. In general this requires two eyes. One plays better using both eyes to “aim” a cue ball.

It would be a fairly easy matter to determine if two eyed playing is advantageous: Play 30 shots the “usual” way. Whether one is a “one” or a “two” eyed player does not matter. Now cover one eye with a patch and play 30 similar shots and determine what percentage of potting is higher. The test should consider a mix of easy and difficult shots with the usual requirements for position in some particular pool game. To be a fair test at least 30% of the shots should have a 50% chance of being made. A test in which all of the shots are “easy” to make is not a fair test because there is not a sufficient amount of variation in shot making.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Thanks JoeyA, I will try that. I think I am about ready to blow some money on a good instructor to get my game to the next level. But that is another story.

Let me state a hypothesis and see where it goes.

All players are two eyed shooters.

In the sciences we make a statement and then let the facts speak for themselves. A bold statement like this is needed so we have something to test.

Playing pool is substantially different than shooting a pistol or a bow and arrow. There are several additional variables. When shooting (pistol or arrow) it is about aiming point to point for range or sport shooting.

When playing pool it is probably inappropriate to call it “shooting.” The player is literally rolling a 2 ¼” ball to make contact with another 2 ¼” ball. In this scenario it is necessary to consider the center of both balls and to consider the edges of both balls. Aiming involves shooting through the cue ball and estimating edge contact on both balls so the object balls rolls down a specific line to do this one must estimate the center and the edge lines on the object ball. There are at least four lines to be considered.

In addition, a “shot” often requires the player to hit off center on the cue ball to obtain spin for cue ball positioning. Therefore, the player is aiming off center of the cue ball on two other lines while estimating center line travel and edge to edge contact.

All of this “aiming” is conducted from the third dimension relative to the two dimensions the balls are played on.

The next complicating factor involves the idea that the cue stick is very seldom level with the two dimensional playing field while the eyes are in this third dimension they are not located on the same line.

A pool player is estimating in three dimensions along at least nine different lines while considering the effects of spin on the object ball and on the cue ball to obtain a desired positional effect on at least two different points in the two dimensional playing field.

In this sense it is necessary to use both eyes to accomplish the task. Once the estimation has been accomplished it is still necessary to roll the cue ball considering at least three lines: center of the cue, edge of the object ball, and the line the cue stick is placed on to accomplish all of the above.

A “shot” can finally be reduced to rolling the cue ball along a line, given that everything else stays on “other” lines. This is not accomplished by placing the cue stick on that line. In general this requires two eyes. One plays better using both eyes to “aim” a cue ball.

It would be a fairly easy matter to determine if two eyed playing is advantageous: Play 30 shots the “usual” way. Whether one is a “one” or a “two” eyed player does not matter. Now cover one eye with a patch and play 30 similar shots and determine what percentage of potting is higher. The test should consider a mix of easy and difficult shots with the usual requirements for position in some particular pool game. To be a fair test at least 30% of the shots should have a 50% chance of being made. A test in which all of the shots are “easy” to make is not a fair test because there is not a sufficient amount of variation in shot making.

That would be a very very hard test to prove beyond reasonable doubt given that I know a player that back when he played (always) closed one eye right before he shot...and he was good enough to beat Buddy Hall....(and did)....he can barely make a ball with both eyes open....(double vision)


Of course I don't have "scientific" data to back this up, but I fully believe the main reason we have two eyes is for peripheral vision. In my opinion binocular vision is only something we have accomodated for in order to have peripheral vision....

I definatley don't think we have two eyes for advantageous aiming or focus...if that were the case, why wouldnt we have dual aiming aids for things like missiles and cameras?

Also...after all the variables you list...(I actually never thought there were that many)...After you made your calculations...(while standing) every shot reduces down to a specific point on the CB that needs to contact a specific point on the OB.....Of course we have many many systems that help caluculate those two points for us......but once the calculations are done...its aiming 1 point at anther point....(however you choose to do it)

 

[JoeW]

Now that I said all that, I find that I like one eyed shooting best for a very simple reason: If one eye is over the cue stick all I have to do is keep the eye and the stick on one “plane.” Someone told me long ago that one way to play is to imagine a glass wall and that the hand, stick and your eye are all on that plane. Thinking or "feeling” the shot in this way keeps everything in line. It definitely improves my playing when I have the eye over the stick and move my hips to make slight changes when aiming. My play is much more consistent and it simply feels right.

However, I seem to aim more accurately when I use two eyes and watch the cue ball tracks to the 9” nail in the object ball. By tracks I mean estimating the edges and center of the cue ball.

I think I should go back to something easy -- like oil painting nudes.

 

[JoeW]

Two eyes are undoubtedly needed for good peripheral vision such as in some fish and some insects that have eyes on the sides of their heads. We also use the placement of rods and cones to assist in this task but have overlapping pictures. For depth perception and the estimation of converging lines one needs two eyes. I don’t know either but it seems to me that if peripheral vision were the only function then our eyes would be at the sides – look at that beautiful wall eyed blonde!

With two eyes it is easier to tell just how close that tiger is and determine if we should flee or die (thee is no fighting tigers unless we evolve some other things).

When playing pool we are estimating converging lines a lot on length of table shots. I suspect that is why they are more difficult. The player who does all his calculations and then reduces the shot to a point to point roll with one eye excludes those 9 converging lines and may be the better player.

BTW Earl Strickland is primarily a one eyed shooter.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[ShootingArts]

stance

Joe,

I think you are on the right track, pool doesn't require movement of the feet so from that standpoint a flat footed stance is fine. However, I think the most control is found with about the tension in the body that we have waiting on someone else's serve and with all of our joints unlocked. I do find that a lot of the basics carry over from one activity to the next.

Interestingly, I shoot a pistol also although I am a few years out of practice for competition at the moment. To draw and shoot a pistol at multiple targets fast requires an alert stance without being tense and with nothing locked. Elbows slightly flexed, knees slightly bent, and a comparatively soft grip on the pistol. Beginners tend to intuitively lean backwards to counter the weight of the pistol when they should be leaning forward slightly to counter recoil. Trying to muscle the pistol results in overcompensation and lost time, therefore the softer grip to let it float. Foot position is even similar to that used shooting pool and is often the stance I am in if the cue ball is near mid-table. The main difference is, as you have noted, shooting pool it is fine to have a little more weight on your heels. Other than that, when I break down the two activities, the alert stance and soft grip seem much the same.

I think that you will find that the locked leg is an intermediate step in the development of your personal stance. It may be better than what you had or more likely it is forcing other changes that improve your stance. Trying to discuss this with you, I wanted to put some numbers on the amount of weight on the front and back of my feet so I grabbed a cue and headed to the kitchen table. My back foot is very close to a natural loading, the load feels the same front and rear. The front foot does have a little more load on the ball of the foot than when I am standing normally and I presume the load increases as the natural result of a stroke and follow through.

This thread has moved on a bit since I started typing this and wandered off from my computer. To add a comment about binocular vision, it is needed to find the contact point on the object ball unless we physically walk around to locate the contact point every shot. Aiming can then be accomplished with one eye or two but we are designed to use both eyes. Doing this I don't battle the conflict of the two perceptions of where the "right" aim point is.

Still a work in progress but I have deliberately moved my head over a few inches to allow more equal use of both eyes. This also improves how I "see" the object ball particularly on long shots. With my strong eye directly over the stick, I see the front half of the ball with that eye, and also a portion of the ball that is invisible to that eye with the weak eye. Our brain sorts all of this out but pool and rifle shooting are the only times my mind has to do this. It seems more reasonable to move until the eyes are more evenly centered over the stick and let the eyes and brain function the way that they do probably 99% of the time. I think this is similar to what Joe Tucker recommends in his DVD that he sells with the third eye trainer but I have lost the DVD and don't remember the details on it anymore.

Hu

Thanks ShootingArts. I basically agree with you and use the low site picture on length of table shots and to make sure I watch the cue ball roll. I did learn with the prior post that shooting with two eyes is better than with one eye as far as I am concerned for the reasons you mentioned. Pool is much more a three dimensional game and I tend to watch the cue ball track (both sides and the center) for the most accuracy.

I have only recently started to use the locked leg. I don't like it but it does seem to add stability on long shots. So perhaps a semi-locked leg is more the trick.

I have played lots of other sports like tennis, ping pong, gymnastics, and acrobatic diving. I have learned that unlike these sports, pool requires a flat footed stance. It is more like pistol shooting which I had a difficult time with until I learned to stand flat footed. So the locked leg is but another way to stay off my toes.

 

[Franky]

My vote is for the Bert Kinister shot #1 for this. Cuetip placement is precisely center ball. Speed is medium hard to hard. Do not put draw on the ball. This is not a stop shot. Your goal is to replace the object ball with a firm centerball stroke, allowing the cueball to roll forward exactly one ball width after contact.

If you can do this 75% of the time or more, you're doing great. It checks for accuracy in cuetip placement, aim, alignment, and sense of speed...maybe more. Give it a try, it is not easy.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AYkW1PXcj4UYkW4UbKs1kXcj4kYkF4kYsb@

 

[seymore15074]

He might have been checking for table roll/rail bounciness (hah bounciness).

Eric.

Or getting ready for a lag... Besides, even if Efren thinks that drill is important; I do not. Go hang on his [pool] balls, if you like; I'll draw my own conclusions.

 

[CreeDo]

some other pointers -

- sadly, some tables have misaligned center diamonds, so don't trust them... use a ruler to measure your halfway points. Even if you have a nice brand table.

- If you want to confirm you're not cheating the pocket much, you can use pieces of chalk as pocket reducers or goalposts or whatever. I think an ideal test won't involve the rails "just to be sure"...just the ball in the pocket. That's what you generally want to train your brain on anyway. Maybe that's overdoing it but I like the idea of shooting down a pencil-marked perfect diagonal line between opposite corner pockets, and getting the CB to follow that line, rather than shooting down a center line into a rail.

- I agree that you don't want to lock anything or force your stance in any way. The stance's job is to allow everything above the waist to aim and execute the shot. Adjust the foot position and knee bending until they feel totally natural. Just remember you must get the top half doing its job and then the legs accomodate what your top half wants. Don't get it backwards and make your upper half adjust to what your legs want (i.e. not getting as low as you'd prefer because it stresses the front leg, etc.)

- Not sure why it works but it really helps with both how you address the ball and your stroke to do NO practice swings (another idea copped from BK). Normally, I have no problem drawing 6 feet or so doing the drill baker illustrated, but I found I have to groove the stroke somehow with warmup swings. I had trouble just taking one swing backwards, pausing, then delivering the draw in one blow. I learned that I was subsoncsiously dipping a bit on the final swing.

I also learned (well I sorta knew it always) that like everyone else, if I need to adjust a hair, I lazily will angle the entire stroke a hair rather than stand up and re-align my body and bridge to stroke straight. This is a nasty habit and you must commit to jumping up and re-sighting a lot to break it, until you learn not to go down until everything else is correct.

- Look backwards at your elbow and note how much it sticks up in the air while you're down, and how your forward swing makes it collapse. Also look downward to see if there's any left/right action during the swing. Strive for little upper arm movement. An analogy that bk uses is to think of the elbow as a collapsible hinge and to just let gravity (and the stick's weight) cause it to drop once you unlock the hinge. Somehow this little mental trick makes me deliver it straighter and I still use it on important shots.

 

[JoeW]

Yeah the elbow thing is kinda weird and it can cause lots of problems. Ever notice that on a straight follow through your elbow drops or collapses towards the cue stick. However, on a draw shot it is difficult to get the speed without letting your elbow collapse to the side of the stick and this of course leads to the draw coming back at an angle. It is difficult to get the swing arm correct. Seems you need some wrist action to get the CB speed for draw. The problem is to get the speed with out side action on the wrist.

I noticed in one video that Nick Varner (among others) bends his wrist straight back towards his elbow and found that this helps to keep the swing and follow through on line. Feels weird but it works and improves the stroke.

Seems there are so many things that can be done to improve mechanics that when you concentrate on one the others get lost. I guess that is why pros have thousands of hours to build an automatic stroke that is not “thought” about.

When I work at it too much I feel like a 15 year old girl in her first pair of high heel shoes. But if I don't work at it then there are too many misses

The one I have learned recently that helps a lot is based on observing pros. It seems that many of them begin by setting their cue tip at the base of the cue ball. I think that this allows them to "see" through the center of the cue ball and make sure that everthing is lined up. This has helped me with making sure I am hittng the cue ball exactly where I want to hit it relative to the clock face onthe CB.

Burt Kinister's #1 shot, discussed above is my standard warm up. When you can roll the CB one ball diameter after the hit, you know your stroke is working.

 

[PROG8R]

So, you want to check your stroke to see if you can consistently hit the vertical axis of the cue ball?
The stop shot is an invaluable tool, you can check the cue action either on dead on stops, or on tangent lines (they will not be true if you are spinning the ball).

Try this little gem if you want to be humbled.

Take out the 9 balls (1-9),

Place the 1 on the spot,

Take cue ball in hand and line it up straight through the object ball and into the corner pocket (either one closest to the object ball),

Shoot the object ball into the corner pocket and draw back to the cue ball starting position, place the 2 on the spot and repeat the shot (this time without ball in hand leaving the cue where it stopped from the first shot).

Repeat with the 3 and so on.

During this drill the cue can not touch a rail and you can not change pockets, if you are out of shape to the point to where the next shot will hit a rail, or you already did, you are done start over.

Just a simple little drill that will develop on heck solid straight stroke. Well at least it sounds easy enough until you are ready to break something when you can’t get past 3 or 4 ball because you keep getting out of line.

Go ahead try it, unless you are one exceptional player I don’t think you will get past 5 on your first try, or maybe even your 10th. But you might.

 

[seymore15074]

Try this little gem if you want to be humbled.

Take out the 9 balls (1-9),

Place the 1 on the spot,

Take cue ball in hand and line it up straight through the object ball and into the corner pocket (either one closest to the object ball),

Shoot the object ball into the corner pocket and draw back to the cue ball starting position, place the 2 on the spot and repeat the shot (this time without ball in hand leaving the cue where it stopped from the first shot).

Repeat with the 3 and so on.

During this drill the cue can not touch a rail and you can not change pockets, if you are out of shape to the point to where the next shot will hit a rail, or you already did, you are done start over.

Just a simple little drill that will develop on heck solid straight stroke. Well at least it sounds easy enough until you are ready to break something when you can’t get past 3 or 4 ball because you keep getting out of line.

Go ahead try it, unless you are one exceptional player I don’t think you will get past 5 on your first try, or maybe even your 10th. But you might.

Now that is a great drill. I like how the slightest miss will be magnified on the next, and etc. Great post.

 

[JoeW]

ego's feeling pretty good today but I think it is gonna get a come uppance with this drill. Thanks.

 

[whitewolf]

Do you do the drill where you hit the cueball down the middle and try to get it to hit your cue? Is it better to use a striped ball so you can see the spin, or the CB so you can try to hit center without any guide? Maybe both?

Do you think this drill is particularly helpful or not?

First of all, let me say to those posters who say that this is a worthless drill are not correct, especially for giving advice to a beginner, for example. Sure, if you are the hot shot pool player, you don't need to do this drill. Yeah, right! How may of us fall into that category? This is not the be-all of drills, but it is useful.

Use the ball with the bulls eye target and the stripe. If you have dominant eye problems like me, this drill will straighten you out. I have a tendency to line up slightly to the right of center every time. Tony Robles even suggested this drill to me as a cure of some sorts.

Put chalk on the other end of the table and when you shoot, make sure your eyes are fixed on that object, or however you decide to mark the spot. This will also help you to stroke and focus properly with the proper eye fixation, which is very important for stroking straight. When you bowl, are you looking at the short marks up the alley, or way down at the pins? Same principal, although I hear that some pros use these marks, just like some pros look at the cue ball last, which is not the ideal method IMHO. By doing this you will learn to feel your stroke coming back straight and then you can get in the groove. The object here is to groove your 'long distance focusing', something some players do naturally and others like myself have to practice.

Vary your speeds. Usually people can shoot medium to hard, but not soft while maintaining the same quality stroke. Shoot extemely hard to practice for the break. If you are not going straight up and down the table, you are doing something wrong. Shoot hard with draw to try and develope a straight stroke staying low and level, or even chopping down. Shoot power follow shots. This drill gives you immediate results.

And remember that it is possible to hit the center of the target and hit the spot at the other end of the table, but this drill will tell the whole story. You could be coming across the ball and your cueball when spin out of control LOL.

Do the drills others suggested also. Drills are good as long as you don't over do them.

Good luck.

 

[PROG8R]

ego's feeling pretty good today but I think it is gonna get a come uppance with this drill. Thanks.

Did you try it yet?

 

[JoeW]

Yeah I tried it. Made 4 and then got antsy and drew too close to the rail. I was on line but couldn't play the fifth shot.

Nice drill and it makes you concentrate. I like trying to get back on line by cheating the pocket and using some english on the draw.