Driving Me Bonkers

Hu:
Are there more male Filipinos playing pool or more women playing pool worldwide?
Click to expand...

Do you think Filipinos are genetically superior to the rest of the world's males when it comes to playing pool? Or is there maybe some other explanation for the unusually high percentage of good players from there? Maybe because a higher percentage of them see pool as a respectable sport that can pay them more than they can make other ways? And yet what percentage of Filipina women want to play pool?

Hmm. More numbers.

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:
Debbie R said:
I finally figured out why women tend not to be as good as men in pool.

Damn men won't leave us alone long enough to do drills or practice shots. Plus 'Free Advice' really just pisses you off and thereby sharks you.

So to all the men on here, leave us alone!

No, we do not want to play with you when we are doing drills.
No, we do not want you to tell us why we missed the ball when you can't seem to figure out why you miss 4 balls in a rack.
No, we do not want you to keep insisting on playing us a game or giving us pointers when we tell you to go away.
No, we do not want you to sit down and stare at us while we are playing a game or doing drills.
No, we do not want you to walk up to the table while we are playing the ghost and attempt to engage us in conversation.

So shoo!
Click to expand...

Careful what you wish for. When you get old and fat you will be upset that men never come up and ask you to play.
 
I've already stated my opinion of the men

Patrick Johnson said:
Do you think Filipinos are genetically superior to the rest of the world's males when it comes to playing pool? Or is there maybe some other explanation for the unusually high percentage of good players from there? Maybe because a higher percentage of them see pool as a respectable sport that can pay them more than they can make other ways? And yet what percentage of Filipina women want to play pool?

Hmm. More numbers.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...


The Filipino men see it as an acceptable path to a better life. We often see the same thing with many small countries when one person excels in a sport. Many youngsters are encouraged to try to follow them and some usually succeed. That doesn't change the fact that there are certainly more women playing pool worldwide than there are Filipino men playing pool, bringing the available pool of talent theory into question.

Hu
 
Debbie R said:
I finally figured out why women tend not to be as good as men in pool.

Damn men won't leave us alone long enough to do drills or practice shots. Plus 'Free Advice' really just pisses you off and thereby sharks you.

So to all the men on here, leave us alone!

No, we do not want to play with you when we are doing drills.
No, we do not want you to tell us why we missed the ball when you can't seem to figure out why you miss 4 balls in a rack.
No, we do not want you to keep insisting on playing us a game or giving us pointers when we tell you to go away.
No, we do not want you to sit down and stare at us while we are playing a game or doing drills.
No, we do not want you to walk up to the table while we are playing the ghost and attempt to engage us in conversation.

So shoo!
Click to expand...

you sound like an angry lesbian.

LOL. J/K :grin:
 
Celtic said:
We are going to disagree with this. I am a fairly practical realist when it comes to stuff like this. Men and women are not created equal, we work differently and as much as any human might wish we were "above" evolution and biological differences that affect each gender it is simply not the case. Males and females are different and the number of medical and scientific studies done to study the differences in the way the two genders work fill entire sections of university libraries if anyone is interested in researching it.

For a REALLY basic start one simply has to read these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_of_gender

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_differentiation

The key aspects being not in the physical differentiation, but in the brain and psychological differentiation.

http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html

That stuff is important, especially when you look at



We are different, we think differently, we have different hormones that create both physical and mental differences between males and females. This can and does have an affect on how we do things.
Click to expand...


Ok, I will take Jasmin Ouchan against you for as much as you want. You should beat her on genetics alone! :grin: I think you giving up 3 to 1 on the money is stealing! Let me know when you want to set it up:eek:



Some of your points on evolution I would agree with, but to make a blanket statement and applying it as a fact that applies to everyone is not going to be accurate.


Sure , generally speaking, men may be more genetically prone to success at physical activities. But that does not mean in every case ( or even close). A woman with a little bit of quality instruction and training should beat a man with no training pretty easily, more than making up for any kind of gentic predispostion. So, while your position may have some merit to it, it falls away pretty quickly in the real world, and is overcome easily.

It has already been proven that women DO possess more than enough physical, genetic, etc qualities to play pool on a world class level. And your statements come off as thinly veiled male chauvanism.

Careful! They may even let women vote soon, if this kind of thing keeps up!:rolleyes:



The main reason for the difference in ability across the board is already covered by patrick. Historically, more men play pool than women, so logically the best men will be better than the best women ( just because it is drawing from a deeper field). There are also some social aspects that have kept women a bit behind the men.

These have a lot more to do it than any genetic or evolutionary factors. And are becoming less and less a factor everyday.


I will say one thing- The women are waaay better at keeping a tour going, and getting exposure!


Jw
 
poolpro said:
Ok, I will take Jasmin Ouchan against you for as much as you want. You should beat her on genetics alone! :grin: I think you giving up 3 to 1 on the money is stealing! Let me know when you want to set it up:eek:

Some of your points on evolution I would agree with, but to make a blanket statement and applying it as a fact that applies to everyone is not going to be accurate.
Click to expand...

Ya, only I did not make it a blanket statement. I will quote myself.

There are genetic chances of a female being quite gifted at the things that make a person great at pool, but it is more unlikely then the chance for a male, and the chance of a female being as naturally gifted at the game as that rare male who tops the charts of natural talent and attributes is extremely remote. That is why there is no women who plays at the level of the top 20 men in the world, the odds just do not favor the chance of that taking place.
Click to expand...

Jasmin is clearly one of those females that hit the genetic jackpot with regards to pool, she is easily one of the most naturally gifted female pool players in the world. That makes her more naturally gifted then most of the males of this species, but the males who also hit the genetic jackpot for pool like Dennis Orcullo, Chia Ching Wu, Mika Immonen? Those guys were born with an even higher level of those things and the reason for that taking place are due to their gender giving them a higher percentage chance for each gene to work out for them then if they missed getting that Y chromosome of theirs.

Men just have a better chance of hitting the genetic jackpot AND they get the better environment and support to hone that natural talent.

I will say one thing- The women are waaay better at keeping a tour going, and getting exposure!
Click to expand...

Cannot argue that. Don't even know what a male professional pool player is anymore. I see a female pro as a WPBA card holder or that level skill in the other countries. How the heck do you define a male pro? The "make a living playing pool" criteria is tough as this sport makes earning a living bloody hard atm. You go 30 spots down the money list right now near the end of the year and some McDonalds workers who took some extra shifts are living it up compared to a professional pool player.
 
Last edited:
Celtic,

What makes you think Jasmin is so genetically gifted? Why do you assume that her success is the result of the genetic lottery instead of the fact that she spends enormous time at the table, working her ass off to get better?

Hu,

To do a valid comparison for statistical purposes you need to compare groups that are equivilent for all other characteristics. Comparing Philippino men, where a high percentage are driven to succeed and expend extensive time and effort pursuing the goal of becoming a champion, to the women of the world, where only a very few have the interest and expend the effort isn't a valid comparison.

Men and women are indeed different, but I see no eveidence whatsoever that any of those differences give one or the other group a significant advantage at the table.
 
Would you people get real! Go back and read the very first post. It's about how this lifetime member of the tounge-and-groove club, walks up and kicks us guys in the nuts. Jeez!
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Would you people get real! Go back and read the very first post. It's about how this lifetime member of the tounge-and-groove club, walks up and kicks us guys in the nuts. Jeez!
Click to expand...

I did go back and read Debbie's post and while it reads like she is speaking for all women, I doubt if that is the case.

Also, Debbie is directing her instructions at all of the men on AZ Billiards and that has it's own story.

With all of that being said and done, I often feel just like Debbie when I am at the pool room when people interupt my practice sessions to chat and tell me about new things going on in their life as well as the pool world. I couldn't count the number of times people have interupted my practice to offer advice, chat, or make attempts to be friendly with me. It happens every time I practice, not sometimes.

The difference is that I realize that people just want to be friendly, maybe they just want to be a part of the pool room and talking to me makes them happy, maybe they notice my game is a little off and want to help me, or maybe they simply want to interact. I always stop what I am doing, am always polite and try to answer their question or listen to their statements. As soon as that is over, I politely get back to working on my game.

It sometimes takes even the most well-intentioned people a couple of times at interupting my game to understand that I take my practice as seriously as my tournament play. Some never learn. But eventually most of them get the message and in the future will give me a knowing nod IF they can catch my eye the next time they see me practicing. :grin: The latter group, I make sure to socialize with, when I am finished practicing if they aren't at the table.
JoeyA
 
John Biddle said:
Celtic,

What makes you think Jasmin is so genetically gifted? Why do you assume that her success is the result of the genetic lottery instead of the fact that she spends enormous time at the table, working her ass off to get better?

Hu,

To do a valid comparison for statistical purposes you need to compare groups that are equivilent for all other characteristics. Comparing Philippino men, where a high percentage are driven to succeed and expend extensive time and effort pursuing the goal of becoming a champion, to the women of the world, where only a very few have the interest and expend the effort isn't a valid comparison.

Men and women are indeed different, but I see no eveidence whatsoever that any of those differences give one or the other group a significant advantage at the table.
Click to expand...


Actually, all that I was shooting down is the pool of people theory, no other characteristics needed. It is often put forward that if just as many women as men played pool then the women would be just as good. If you don't like using the Philippines, the same thing is true of England where there is not the huge need to escape circumstances.

What you are saying is exactly the same thing that I am saying from the reverse direction, there are indeed other factors besides the size of the group of players that results in men having an advantage over women with a cue stick. The obvious things don't seem to apply because exceptionally tall and unusually physically strong pool players are often defeated in world competition by much smaller players. Endurance may be an issue however the physical condition of many of the male players leaves that in question too. Size and strength don't seem to be the sole issues, neither is it only the size of the groups of players.

Perhaps the difference in playing level as groups is created by one or two large factors, perhaps by many small factors. I don't claim to have the answers. Raw group size doesn't seem to be the answer however.

Hu
 
/\
Debbie R said:
I finally figured out why women tend not to be as good as men in pool.

Damn men won't leave us alone long enough to do drills or practice shots. Plus 'Free Advice' really just pisses you off and thereby sharks you.

So to all the men on here, leave us alone!

So shoo!
Click to expand...

Even with the best intentions..
It's a lose-lose situation.
"Free advice" is never free.
"leave us alone". nice touch...
 
QUOTE: Orignally posted by JoeyA " With all of that being said and done, I often feel just like Debbie when I am at the pool room when people interupt my practice sessions to chat and tell me about new things going on in their life as well as the pool world. I couldn't count the number of times people have interupted my practice to offer advice, chat, or make attempts to be friendly with me. It happens every time I practice, not sometimes."


Exactly !! very good point. I was in a 1P tourney at Red Shoes, and was interrupted on numerous occassions while playing the tourney, not "just" practicing. I"m in the middle of a match but it never bothered me once. A few times I excused myself as it was my turn at the table, but I'm in a public place and if a few people stop by and say "hey" or ask the score of the match, it should not throw my game off. This is a game after all this is suppose to be fun. This is not our jobs or using to pay the rent (the great majority of us anyway) and then act like we are playing for Olympic gold in a small pool room on Chicago's south side. Heck, I get interupted when I'm practicing in my own home, my son, my dog, my wife, phone calls, neighbors, etc, etc.

At state this year I watched my teammate Tommy Gun Hernandez have to run back and forth between the team event and the masters singles. Then at midnight have to play Jeff Sergeant with numerous interruptions, people saying hi to both, trying to order a drink, somebody spilling a tray of food, cell phones going off. Those two guys didn't bat an eye because they play hard and are shark proof. A practice session is the same thing, get use to the distractions because at any tourney you are going to run into them. Even the waitress walking in your direct path while you try and cinch up for the game ball. Don't let the little things distract / annoy you becaue the big things will crush you.
 
Last edited:
John Biddle said:
Celtic,

What makes you think Jasmin is so genetically gifted? Why do you assume that her success is the result of the genetic lottery instead of the fact that she spends enormous time at the table, working her ass off to get better?
Click to expand...

We had this discussion already on the "What does it take to make a champion" thread. My answer can be found there. The summation is that both natural talent AND hard work are crucial to succeed at the highest level in this game, you are not going to get to the very top without either. There are many people who put just as much effort into pool as Jasmin and will never amount to being 1/10th the player she is. I know countless people who work far harder at their game then I do, putting heaps more time and practice into it, and they cannot play at my level even years later after putting that effort in. I also know people who put even less effort into the game then me, can practice hard for a month, and play near pro level and better then I could putting in that same amount of effort and time.

I mean, if you think Jasmin has no natural talent at the game and want to argue that point go nuts, but it is so self evident that she does in fact have alot of natural talent I am not going to bother to respond. If you cannot believe what is right there in front of your eyes then you are certainly not going to listen to words I might write on a forum.
 
I may not be playing for the olympic gold. But I am trying to get as good as I can get with the limited amount of time I have to practice. As a working stiff, I need to make every practice session as serious and beneficial as possible. I started late and work full time. I need to take everything I can from every practice minute I have at the table.

Now the initial post was written in a jesting fashion. However, the issue is a serious one to me. The talking portion of the brain, is not the part that plays the best pool. When I practice, I need to turn it off. Whether working on shots or my stroke, I want to retain the feel and take that into the next set up. When I talk that feeling is gone.

I am a very talkative person, and when playing for fun with friends, I don't care if someone interupts me. Heck, you probably couldn't get me to shut up if you tried. But in practice, I prefer no talking. Everytime I have to talk, it resets my feel to where I first started. I don't remember the way each little muscle felt when I stroked the ball.

Several people on the site correctly interpreted my tone.

To the rest, just relax. And next time you read a post with "... so shoo" at the end, realize that a serious poster would be more prone to say "... so go to *#&$ and kiss my *^%$".
 
Debbie R said:
The talking portion of the brain, is not the part that plays the best pool. When I practice, I need to turn it off. Whether working on shots or my stroke, I want to retain the feel and take that into the next set up. When I talk that feeling is gone.
Click to expand...

Yep.

Me too.

Nine ball?
 
JoeyA said:
I did go back and read Debbie's post and while it reads like she is speaking for all women, I doubt if that is the case.

Also, Debbie is directing her instructions at all of the men on AZ Billiards and that has it's own story.

With all of that being said and done, I often feel just like Debbie when I am at the pool room when people interupt my practice sessions to chat and tell me about new things going on in their life as well as the pool world. I couldn't count the number of times people have interupted my practice to offer advice, chat, or make attempts to be friendly with me. It happens every time I practice, not sometimes.

The difference is that I realize that people just want to be friendly, maybe they just want to be a part of the pool room and talking to me makes them happy, maybe they notice my game is a little off and want to help me, or maybe they simply want to interact. I always stop what I am doing, am always polite and try to answer their question or listen to their statements. As soon as that is over, I politely get back to working on my game.

It sometimes takes even the most well-intentioned people a couple of times at interupting my game to understand that I take my practice as seriously as my tournament play. Some never learn. But eventually most of them get the message and in the future will give me a knowing nod IF they can catch my eye the next time they see me practicing. :grin: The latter group, I make sure to socialize with, when I am finished practicing if they aren't at the table.
JoeyA
Click to expand...

Of all the posts.....from the genitic comparisons to the borderline (and in some cases ...over the border ) disparaging remarks......this one is by far the best response.....If your a woman that has frequented pool rooms and bar rooms and are over the age of 21......then you have already developed the skills necessary to quickly determine genuine interest in your game........from genuine interest in your cup size......the above approach seems to accomodiate all the variables.

<<<<<<< tips his hat to joey....and gives him a polite nod
 
Debbie R said:
I finally figured out why women tend not to be as good as men in pool.

Damn men won't leave us alone long enough to do drills or practice shots. Plus 'Free Advice' really just pisses you off and thereby sharks you.

So to all the men on here, leave us alone!

No, we do not want to play with you when we are doing drills.
No, we do not want you to tell us why we missed the ball when you can't seem to figure out why you miss 4 balls in a rack.
No, we do not want you to keep insisting on playing us a game or giving us pointers when we tell you to go away.
No, we do not want you to sit down and stare at us while we are playing a game or doing drills.
No, we do not want you to walk up to the table while we are playing the ghost and attempt to engage us in conversation.

So shoo!
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about this off and on all week.
No one interrupts me when I shoot. Really.
I must just suck on my own!
: )
 
Debbie R said:
I may not be playing for the olympic gold. But I am trying to get as good as I can get with the limited amount of time I have to practice. As a working stiff, I need to make every practice session as serious and beneficial as possible. I started late and work full time. I need to take everything I can from every practice minute I have at the table.

Now the initial post was written in a jesting fashion. However, the issue is a serious one to me. The talking portion of the brain, is not the part that plays the best pool. When I practice, I need to turn it off. Whether working on shots or my stroke, I want to retain the feel and take that into the next set up. When I talk that feeling is gone.

I am a very talkative person, and when playing for fun with friends, I don't care if someone interupts me. Heck, you probably couldn't get me to shut up if you tried. But in practice, I prefer no talking. Everytime I have to talk, it resets my feel to where I first started. I don't remember the way each little muscle felt when I stroked the ball.

Several people on the site correctly interpreted my tone.

To the rest, just relax. And next time you read a post with "... so shoo" at the end, realize that a serious poster would be more prone to say "... so go to *#&$ and kiss my *^%$".
Click to expand...

OK, OK, OK!

Go to www.cafepress.com (they have lots of styles to choose from) and order a custom printed shirt that has the same copy on both sides of the shirt:

"I'm practicing, don't interrupt me, especially if you are an AZ Billiards guy. Oh yeah.... SHOO!" :grin:

JoeyA
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top