Eagle Eye Takes Aim at 14.1 High Runs

[7stud]

After the 38th rack (38 x 14 = 532), Bobby bumped fists with Jason, then Jason yelled "Come on!" about six times as he pulled balls from the pockets so Bobby could rack the 39th rack. I think he was releasing some pressure, and at the same time getting locked in to bear down on 626.

The 40th rack (39 on the counter) was a tough one. 41st rack, too! In the 41st rack(40 on the counter), the first shot after the break Jason sunk a ball and went through the remainder of the rack with the CB, and the CB got stuck on the end rail with a very congested table. He lined up for a 90 degree back cut on the 1 into the lower right corner pocket, which looked impossible. He made the 1, but the CB went sailing towards the top right corner pocket, with Jayson yelling, "Hey! Hey!". The CB hit the short rail next to the pocket, then rebounded to center table and nestled up against another ball. A couple of shots later, he had a cut a long ways down the long rail into the same corner pocket. The OB touched the rail two diamonds up, and the ball tried to escape the pocket, caught the edge of the pocket, rattled around, then teetered on the edge of the shelf before dropping. Heart attack!

 

[PoolPlayer4]

They had pics on their FB page. 4.91" corners and 5.3" sides. Those were the standard pocket dimensions FOR YEARS. Same sizes that championship 14.1 has been played on forever. Current WPA standards may be different but why does that matter. He ran 714 on pockets the same that all the greats played on. NO asterisk required.

I understand your position and always respect your input Garczar. It will be great to see some of these other champions attempt to top this!

 

[rexus31]

They had pics on their FB page. 4.91" corners and 5.3" sides. Those were the standard pocket dimensions FOR YEARS. Same sizes that championship 14.1 has been played on forever. Current WPA standards may be different but why does that matter. He ran 714 on pockets the same that all the greats played on. NO asterisk required.

The argument isn't the size of the pockets but that angles in which they are cut. The lone pic provided makes the pocket facings appear parallel. It could be the camera angle or it could be the cut of the pockets. The organizers never responded with specs or an overhead photo showing the pocket angles so the debate continues. To me, 714 is an AMAZING accomplishment regardless of the table. Like I said, 51 racks. I probably couldn't run 51 balls on that table.

 

[garczar]

I understand your position and always respect your input Garczar. It will be great to see some of these other champions attempt to top this!

I'd still like to know why an asterisk is required. What pocket regulations would require that? Your's? Just like a straight answer is all.

 

[garczar]

The argument isn't the size of the pockets but that angles in which they are cut. The lone pic provided makes the pocket facings appear parallel. It could be the camera angle or it could be the cut of the pockets. The organizers never responded with specs or an overhead photo showing the pocket angles so the debate continues. To me, 714 is an AMAZING accomplishment regardless of the table. Like I said, 51 racks. I probably couldn't run 51 balls on that table.

Let's just say thats true. Do we know the exact dimensions of the 'standard size pockets' used in big time 14.1 over the years? No. So how could an asterisk be required on this run? I saw Mosconi run a 100 at an exhibition in a Tulsa supply store yrs ago. It was a GC3 with BUCKETS for pockets. I guess i should mentally add an asterisk to that day. I guess from now on every table used in a record attempt will need a Dr.Dave toughness rating. Maybe someone could measure this one and give a TDF #.

 

[measureman]

714 is a helluva run and it's recorded.
But does not compare to what Chuck Norris did.
Chuck had run 1272 balls and had to stop because the table mechanic wanted to put the rails back on the table.
So being bored he counted to infinity....twice.

Wheres Danny H. to cut this 714 to shreds?

 

[garczar]

714 is a helluva run and it's recorded.
But does not compare to what Chuck Norris did.
Chuck had run 1272 balls and had to stop because the table mechanic wanted to put the rails back on the table.
So being bored he counted to infinity....twice.

Wheres Danny H. to cut this 714 to shreds?

He already game him props in another thread.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'd still like to know why an asterisk is required. What pocket regulations would require that?

WPA pocket specs say corner pocket facing angles should be at least 142° - and that matters to shot making, especially when running hundreds of balls, scores of them down the rails.

Great run even with an asterisk - which it could reasonably have until pocket measurements are shown.

pj
chgo

 

[realkingcobra]

I'd still like to know why an asterisk is required. What pocket regulations would require that? Your's? Just like a straight answer is all.

BCA specs require corner pocket miter angles to be 142/143 plus or minus 1 degrees. That equates to the throat of the pocket being about 3/4' smaller than the pocket mouth opening!

 

[garczar]

WPA pocket specs say the pocket facing angles should be at least 142° - and that matters to shot making, especially when running hundreds of balls, scores of them down the rails.

Great run even with an asterisk - which it might have until pocket measurements are shown.

pj
chgo

I get that but what were the standards back when all the HOF'rs like Mosconi, Crane, Miz were playing? I bet they weren't too far off from this table.

 

[kanzzo]

WPA pocket specs say corner pocket facing angles should be at least 142° - and that matters to shot making, especially when running hundreds of balls, scores of them down the rails.

Great run even with an asterisk - which it could reasonably have until pocket measurements are shown.

pj
chgo

9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS​

Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other – where the nose of the cushion changes direction – to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I get that but what were the standards back when all the HOF'rs like Mosconi, Crane, Miz were playing? I bet they weren't too far off from this table.

Maybe - but we don't yet know what this table's specs are... and if the facings are parallel, then it's gaffed. By the way, I'd say the same thing about Schmidt's pockets if the question arose.

9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS​

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1).

Thanks. I edited out all but the relevant part for this discussion.

pj
chgo

 

[kanzzo]

I get that but what were the standards back when all the HOF'rs like Mosconi, Crane, Miz were playing? I bet they weren't too far off from this table.

even the 2000 U.S. Open Straight Pool Championship was played on 5 inch pockets and would not qualify for the above pocket measurements. Pool got played on easier equipment back in the days

 

[rexus31]

Let's just say thats true. Do we know the exact dimensions of the 'standard size pockets' used in big time 14.1 over the years? No. So how could an asterisk be required on this run? I saw Mosconi run a 100 at an exhibition in a Tulsa supply store yrs ago. It was a GC3 with BUCKETS for pockets. I guess i should mentally add an asterisk to that day. I guess from now on every table used in a record attempt will need a Dr.Dave toughness rating. Maybe someone could measure this one and give a TDF #.

Therein lies the problem with pool specific to equipment. Stock GCIII corner pockets were cut to 142° to 143° and this varied A LOT and I've even seen tables with the same pockets cut at different angles on each side. These were brand new GCIII's I played on at a new room that opened in the 90's. To me, it really doesn't matter. 714 is fucking insane.

 

[rexus31]

I get that but what were the standards back when all the HOF'rs like Mosconi, Crane, Miz were playing? I bet they weren't too far off from this table.

There probably weren't any.

 

[kanzzo]

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]

why not this part ^^

neither the run from John Schmidt nor Mosconi nor Engert would qualify...
These runs were all on 5 inch pockets...

 

[realkingcobra]

You want the "viewers" to believe what you write but not what others write.
So now you're a hypocritcal piece of shit!

I'd bet you a $100 you wouldn't say that to my face standing in front of me

 

[garczar]

9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS​

Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other – where the nose of the cushion changes direction – to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]

The current WPA specs are not all that old. For years the BCA specs were 4&7/8" to 5&1/8" corners and 5&3/8" to 5&5/8" sides.

 

[realkingcobra]

There probably weren't any.

Sorry, but Brunswick has built tables to those specs since the 1800's.i know this for a fact since I've worked on 1,000's of tables over the last 40 years. The pocket openings have been modified over the last 20 years or so, but the miter angles have not changed. ALL table manufacturers build their pocket miter angles to between 141-143 today, and NO table manufacturer has EVER made pocket miter angles less than 140 degrees, and that's only by custom order at that, and Diamond is the ONLY manufacturer I know of that has ever done that.

 

[rexus31]

Sorry, but Brunswick has built tables to those specs since the 1800's.

I get that. I was referring to standards as in the WPA or BCA standard for equipment. Not sure that existed in the 30's and 40's.