Earl playing Russian Pyramid billiards
- Thread starter Magyar19
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Played in a 20 guy Pyramid tourney yesterday here in Brooklyn. Came in in the 5th place. Missed the 4th by one shot, which i missed (was 2 games up and was 7 vs. 5 in the last game with a good position for the 8 in a race to 3). F up the shot and then he just rolled me because of a mental meltdown on my part. I wish I could play drunk like the guys in the Hustler. 
That would take care of the mental problem. Just hard to find that small pocket under the influence... Got to to find a way not to screw up that match ball. Got over a problem with screwing up a game ball -- took me years. Some people just have those nerves of steel...
The first 4 guys moonlight, but live off the game for the most part. The guy who beat me does not even moonlight. Not bad for a middle-age guy with bad eyesight who works full-time and plays 3-4 hours a months. :wink:
That would take care of the mental problem. Just hard to find that small pocket under the influence... Got to to find a way not to screw up that match ball. Got over a problem with screwing up a game ball -- took me years. Some people just have those nerves of steel... The first 4 guys moonlight, but live off the game for the most part. The guy who beat me does not even moonlight. Not bad for a middle-age guy with bad eyesight who works full-time and plays 3-4 hours a months. :wink:
very hard to compare. Two different games, each in its own right. How do you compare pool to snooker or carom? It is even hard to compare 8 to 9 ball in those terms.
Need to devise a scale:
Ease to pocket: pool is easier (even 1 hole). You have more shots in pool.
Requirement of a high run: pool is harder (especially straight pool)
Precision of position required: depends on the particular game played.
Consistency: pool (straight) is harder on pro level. If you need to run 100+ balls, concentration required is superhuman.
Safety play: pool is harder because it is turning into golf with a big bag of sticks for different shots.
Purity of stroke: got to go with Pyramid -- if you are not fluid or grab the stick, your game is over. can get away with a lot in pool with those big pockets and a midget table.
Can be continued, but something like that...
being familiar with all games discussed here (though I can't play carom at all I confess) I compare them easily: how the player from a given game performs in other games. A good snooker player will play pool good. Vice versa is hardly possible. Let alone carom. While every good carom player can run out in 9-ball with ease. That said, my rating for billiard games is (easier first): Pyramid, Pool, Snooker, Carom.
P.S. Having to strike a target size of a ball after three cushion contacts and a ball hit is the hardest task itself. Doing it 20 times in a row is insane.
By your standard, Pyramid should be harder than pool. Earl is a superior pool player. Called by many the greatest 9 ball player. But, sorry to say, he looks like a clown on that Pyramid table. By your standard and according to your logic, pool should be easier, because Stalev is doing great in both Pool and Pyramid. Cannot say that he looks like a clown on a pool table. Something tells me he is not the worst snooker player, even if on an amateur level
I think the game could be rated by a number of factors. For example, by the number of players that are able to play it on a decent level, provided that roughly the same amount of equipment is available to general public to learn the game. I think, 9 ball is by far the easiest game to learn how to pocket and to play basic position required for it. Table is small. Pockets are huge (yes, even the infamous 4 inch pockets I learned on). Space is wide open with only 9 balls or less on the table.
What comes into play next, is what level you are rating. Is it hard to play on my level? Is it harder to play on the level of Efren? I cannot speak about professional level, for I am no where near that and will never be.
Finally, it is hard to rate pool, or carom, or pyramid in whole, but you should specifically rate every game played on that table. For instance, there is a straight rail on carom table, where it is pretty easy to score. And then again level of play comes into effect. How high a run you need to win that particular match.
I think the game could be rated by a number of factors. For example, by the number of players that are able to play it on a decent level, provided that roughly the same amount of equipment is available to general public to learn the game. I think, 9 ball is by far the easiest game to learn how to pocket and to play basic position required for it. Table is small. Pockets are huge (yes, even the infamous 4 inch pockets I learned on). Space is wide open with only 9 balls or less on the table.
What comes into play next, is what level you are rating. Is it hard to play on my level? Is it harder to play on the level of Efren? I cannot speak about professional level, for I am no where near that and will never be.
Finally, it is hard to rate pool, or carom, or pyramid in whole, but you should specifically rate every game played on that table. For instance, there is a straight rail on carom table, where it is pretty easy to score. And then again level of play comes into effect. How high a run you need to win that particular match.
By your standard, Pyramid should be harder than pool. Earl is a superior pool player. Called by many the greatest 9 ball player. But, sorry to say, he looks like a clown on that Pyramid table. By your standard and according to your logic, pool should be easier, because Stalev is doing great in both Pool and Pyramid. Cannot say that he looks like a clown on a pool table. Something tells me he is not the worst snooker player, even if on an amateur level
I think the game could be rated by a number of factors. For example, by the number of players that are able to play it on a decent level, provided that roughly the same amount of equipment is available to general public to learn the game. I think, 9 ball is by far the easiest game to learn how to pocket and to play basic position required for it. Table is small. Pockets are huge (yes, even the infamous 4 inch pockets I learned on). Space is wide open with only 9 balls or less on the table.
What comes into play next, is what level you are rating. Is it hard to play on my level? Is it harder to play on the level of Efren? I cannot speak about professional level, for I am no where near that and will never be.
Finally, it is hard to rate pool, or carom, or pyramid in whole, but you should specifically rate every game played on that table. For instance, there is a straight rail on carom table, where it is pretty easy to score. And then again level of play comes into effect. How high a run you need to win that particular match.
You think Strickland looks like a clown playing Pyramid? Why?
And what did Stalev do in pool? I don't remember any major wins. He gambled a little and won some and lost some. IIRC Bustamante tortured him in one pocket.
If 9 Ball is SO EASY comparatively then why hasn't the 9 Ball World Championship EVER been won by a top carom player, or a top snooker player, or a top Pyramid player.
Lets just examine the monetary incentives. The past several years when it was put on by MatchRoom the first prize was $100,000 and I think 60k to the runner up. Not only that the winner would get invites to all the major events, ususally some extra sponsorship and all the sex he could handle. Ok kidding about the last part but the fact remains that the financial incentive was there for relatively little financial risk. Any player could go to the Worlds and play in the qualifiers to get a spot. Ronnie Alcano won a qualifier and then went on to beat Souquet in the finals one year.
So WHY haven't any of these champions in other disciplines even tried to snap off the "easier" game's world title if it's so easy for them to play?
I don't think it's MUCH easier, I think it's different. And yes I know that a top snooker player has an easier transition to pool than vice versa. Snooker players are like pool players but have honed their skills on tougher equipment. Still they don't just automatically dominate when playing nine ball or ten ball.
Give Earl a few months to practice on a Pyramid table with a Pyramid cue and I bet that he would become one of the best players in the world at it. Or any top professional pool player for that matter.
By the same token you can take the very best Pyramid player on Earth and give him a 9 ft Diamond table and six months and that player would become one of the best players but it's doubtful that they would dominate or win more an average then pure pool players.
Just my opinion based on what I can see with no experience on the Pyramid table to back it up.
I certainly wouldn't say that earl looked like a clown. I bet no one in NYC wants to gamble with that clown on the Pyramid tables there.You think Strickland looks like a clown playing Pyramid? Why?
And what did Stalev do in pool? I don't remember any major wins. He gambled a little and won some and lost some. IIRC Bustamante tortured him in one pocket.
If 9 Ball is SO EASY comparatively then why hasn't the 9 Ball World Championship EVER been won by a top carom player, or a top snooker player, or a top Pyramid player.
Lets just examine the monetary incentives. The past several years when it was put on by MatchRoom the first prize was $100,000 and I think 60k to the runner up. Not only that the winner would get invites to all the major events, ususally some extra sponsorship and all the sex he could handle. Ok kidding about the last part but the fact remains that the financial incentive was there for relatively little financial risk. Any player could go to the Worlds and play in the qualifiers to get a spot. Ronnie Alcano won a qualifier and then went on to beat Souquet in the finals one year.
So WHY haven't any of these champions in other disciplines even tried to snap off the "easier" game's world title if it's so easy for them to play?
I don't think it's MUCH easier, I think it's different. And yes I know that a top snooker player has an easier transition to pool than vice versa. Snooker players are like pool players but have honed their skills on tougher equipment. Still they don't just automatically dominate when playing nine ball or ten ball.
Give Earl a few months to practice on a Pyramid table with a Pyramid cue and I bet that he would become one of the best players in the world at it. Or any top professional pool player for that matter.
By the same token you can take the very best Pyramid player on Earth and give him a 9 ft Diamond table and six months and that player would become one of the best players but it's doubtful that they would dominate or win more an average then pure pool players.
Just my opinion based on what I can see with no experience on the Pyramid table to back it up.
Because 9 ball maybe the easiest or second easiest competitive pool discipline, but it's not THAT easy to play at a top level. We've seen Steve Davis, Jimmy White and Mark Williams have a serious go at the world championship and only Steve was reasonably successful out of the three. That's because Steve actually put some effort into practicing 9 ball. But his problem was that he was unwilling to practice the break as he was afraid it would hurt his snooker stroke. Furthermore he only practiced in the weeks approaching the tournament.
9 ball isn't our most difficult game by a long shot, that distinction goes to either one pocket or 14.1.
I agree though, if you have any top player from any discipline practice pool for a year they aren't going to dominate any more than anyone else.
that's exactly my point. BKB, you see I am from Russia where the majority of balls are hit on a Pyramid table. So I play it from time to time, originally being a pool player. Once I learnt standard approach to the shots present and the basic rule for in-offs, the game became easy to play. Yes it not always easy to make a ball which is far from the pocket, but pocketing is almost everything about the game.
A pool player can master Pyramid much faster than vice versa. We had similar conversation on a local forum where I tried to persuade some Pyramid enthusiasts that those pool players who took part in the Worlds could, if they had intention to, devote a year to practicing Pyramid and would have competed at pretty decent level. Anyway, that's just my point of view. Stalev plays Pyramid so good because he is an excellent pool player. He brought so much imagination to the world of Pyramid, if it was not him Pyramid would have been very boring until these days.
Yeah novice players think that if in a game is hard to make a ball automatically the game is harder.
As I wrote before in this game the only difficult part is making a ball other than that is a pretty easy game.
I don't agree with your chart of hardness of the games. I think 10 ball and one pocket are as hard as snooker or carom. Every game has his hardness.
It's a shame Stalev doesn't play anymore, I'm wondering if he is doing well in poker.
Because all he can do is to occasionally make a ball. Cannot really play position. Cannot understand how to play safe without leaving a ball in play. Does not play double-shots, forget triple shots... Simply does not understand the game. But, as I said, he still does much better than an average poster/pool player here would do.
Pocketing is everything in every game (except carom). If you do not pocket -- you cannot win. I do not remember the last time I saw a triple safe/foul win on pro level...
All that said, I am taking myself out of this argument -- it is like the continuation of the argument that Newman tried to start in Color of Money about straight pool on a 10 footer vs. 9 ball on a 9 footer. I am sure there would be someone here to argue that 9 ball on a 9 footer is harder...
Stalev was a stone cold killer in after hours action. A number of pros steered clear of him for the dough.
No doubt. I saw it first hand. He can really play and his demeanor is ice cold.
I doubt about English version but there was a thread not long ago started by blackflagsailor on the same topic. I gave a link to official rules there. It's in Russian but Google manages to provide pretty decent translation even from Chinese nowadays :wink:
check this out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdGziOjtMFU The man is almost 90 y.o. and is a WWII vet, since then he has this hand shaking due to having been wounded. He is one of most colorful players at the local scene, and he knows so many people from the past and so many stories, I regret he doesn't even think of writing a book about that. That would have been a thrilling and entertaining read.