Earl should be barred

Fleece3 said:
OK, where do I start??? First of all, Earl is not "MY HERO". That honor falls to my father and my uncle George. However, I DO respect Earl as being arguably the greatest 9 ball player of all time. Like I said in my post, Earl is volatile. But it goes deeper then that. Earl is manic. It is a emotional problem, not an option. When Earl "GOES OFF", he REALLY can not help himself. HE CAN NOT STOP IT. You can't step to a manic and say "Get a grip" or "Calm down". It doesn't work!!! You can only let him ride it out. Please listen to me here. At my job, I am often visited by a person with tirrets syndrome. I can not begin to tell you the verbal abuse that he has thrown at not only myself, but other co-workers. He has called me the "N" word, women the "B" word, and more. He even hits you for no reason. However, he is the nicest guy you would ever meet. HE CAN'T STOP IT!!!! Same with Earl. Blaming Earl for his episodes is like blaming a man with a broken leg for limping.
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The fact that he calms down when under the microscope of a tournament director does tell me that he is able to curb his temper/response and control it. At least when he is being made aware of it. I do agree that it's a knee-JERK reaction with him. I totally respect his game, and I respect him as a person off the table. I even respect his single-mindededness about being the best. It's just on the table that his worst traits come crawling out. As I said earlier, his mind does work a little off-kilter from everyone else's.
 
I suppose I am fortunate in that I have never seen Earl go off. Or if he did I didn't think it was anything out of the ordinary that I have seen many other pros do.

But I have seen him abused by Rodney Morris, Rob Saez, Mike Davis and fans. In each instance Earl would have been justified to "go off" as everyone claims he does. But he just took it.

Let's face it. The word on Earl is to upset him during a match to help you win the match. Does the word "sharking" mean anything to you?

Now that I think about it, he did lose those three matches. So I suppose the tactic does work.

And if people hate the guy so much why do they bother to watch him?

I just hope he learns how to break an 8-ball rack on a Diamond table because he sure was having trouble against Gerda.

Jake
 
As someone who is familiar with tourrettes syndrome Ive always said that Earl suffers from some neurological problems. People dont understand the nature of the disease because of how complex the brain is. Under stress the symptoms become increased A part of this is the need to use terrible language but it is the obsessive need to be anti social. We only recently have begun diagnosing this in bad behavior in kids but this goes on into adulthood. The chemicals in the brain just gets screwed up.
Many suffer from it and dont know it. We become socialized and control or are able to hide deviant behavior. The brain is just damn complex. Some people abuse food, their family, animals, drive like idiots, have an obsessive need for sex, like to fight, etc. Look around your pool room and see the different abherent behaior.
I think Earl suffers from some neurological problem and needs to see a specialist. There is no cure for the Obsessive Compulsive but there is some medication that can help.
 
Icon of Sin said:
An old man was walking out in the snow and found a snake half frozen to death. He took the snake in and warmed ikt up and nursed it back to health. One day when the man was sleeping the snake bit him and poisoned him. As the man was dying he ask "Why would you do that after I helped you" The snake replied "Look B!tch, you knew I was a snake"

All this said, I do respect Earl as he is one hell of a pool player, he just needs to work on being a better human being.
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I have always loved the story. And it does relay to Earl. However, not in the sense that you stated. Try this one.....Earl replied "Look B!tch, you knew I was a manic" Just like a snake will be a snake, a manic will be a manic. PEOPLE! He can't help it!!! No anger managment classes, no self help books, etc. Everyone up here continually thinks Earl has a choice in his actions..he does not. No more than gasoline not blowing up when you put a flame to it. Still numerous people sit in the stands and put a flame to Earl...Guess what???? KABOOM!!!!!!!!
 
yobagua said:
As someone who is familiar with tourrettes syndrome Ive always said that Earl suffers from some neurological problems. People dont understand the nature of the disease because of how complex the brain is. Under stress the symptoms become increased A part of this is the need to use terrible language but it is the obsessive need to be anti social. We only recently have begun diagnosing this in bad behavior in kids but this goes on into adulthood. The chemicals in the brain just gets screwed up.
Many suffer from it and dont know it. We become socialized and control or are able to hide deviant behavior. The brain is just damn complex. Some people abuse food, their family, animals, drive like idiots, have an obsessive need for sex, like to fight, etc. Look around your pool room and see the different abherent behaior.
I think Earl suffers from some neurological problem and needs to see a specialist. There is no cure for the Obsessive Compulsive but there is some medication that can help.
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TAP TAP TAP
 
seeing thru a new lense...

Come on guys leave Earl alone. Six months ago I might have been on the Earl's a jerk side of the fence. For the last six months I've been working in one of those group homes where nine guys live and try to learn the social and functional skills to live on their own. Each has a mental problem that may or may not be controlled by the medications they take to help control their behaviors. This job has been an enlightning experience to say the least. Of nine guys five will never graduate to living alone...LOL but the other four can go into the community, with me, and no one would ever know they have mental problems that are beyond their control. When I am out in the 'normal' community with these guys I can't help but compare their behavior with the normals and this thought keeps popping into my head: "there is another normal that just hasn't been identified as being out of control".
Now I don't know if Earl has a mental problem but do know that there is a whole community of normal people out there that should have me taking them around...LOL
 
Fleece3 said:
OK, where do I start??? First of all, Earl is not "MY HERO". That honor falls to my father and my uncle George. However, I DO respect Earl as being arguably the greatest 9 ball player of all time. Like I said in my post, Earl is volatile. But it goes deeper then that. Earl is manic. It is a emotional problem, not an option. When Earl "GOES OFF", he REALLY can not help himself. HE CAN NOT STOP IT. You can't step to a manic and say "Get a grip" or "Calm down". It doesn't work!!! You can only let him ride it out. Please listen to me here. At my job, I am often visited by a person with tirrets syndrome. I can not begin to tell you the verbal abuse that he has thrown at not only myself, but other co-workers. He has called me the "N" word, women the "B" word, and more. He even hits you for no reason. However, he is the nicest guy you would ever meet. HE CAN'T STOP IT!!!! Same with Earl. Blaming Earl for his episodes is like blaming a man with a broken leg for limping.
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First, I'm glad that Earl's not your "hero"...thanks for the clarification and point taken (nothing personal meant by my original statement :o) . Second, Let's just say for argument sake you are right about Earl, all is forgiven and he continues to play great pool with the occasional outbursts that are beyond his control. What about those that are playing against him and on surrounding tables, whom these uncontrollable outbursts affect...is it fair to them? It's still a major distraction that some can handle and some can't. Those that it affects have a great chance of losing their matches where they may have had a good chance of winning without all the hoopla. So I ask you, what do think can be done so Earl's "medical problem" only affects Earl and not others? Even though we now understand what’s going on with Earl, it's still a problem that needs addressing. Don't you agree?
 
Fleece3 said:
...However, I DO respect Earl as being arguably the greatest 9 ball player of all time...
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Here's a funny story about this. Some years ago I was debating with a guy from the poolroom in No. CA. He asked me who I thought was the best 9-ball player and I said Efren (I believe Efren to be the best all-around player ever). He said Earl was by a LONG SHOT and may be the best ever. I agreed that Earl is awesome and a great player but I felt Efren was a little better in the long run, and to illustrate this I mentioned that Efren had just beat Earl in a race to 120 for $100K(?) since it was just completed a couple months prior. He thought for a while and said "yeh, but only one set!". The whole poolroom cracked up. Thought I'd share. By the way, Buddy Hall may have been the best 9-baller of all time.
 
Personally, I think people should stop trying to second guess whether Earl has a mental illness or not. We should focus on the behavior because we can discuss what we've actually seen him do. I have no idea whether he has any mental problems and I seriously doubt that anyone else on here does either, and even if they do, it shouldn't be discussed on this board imho (ever hear of confidentialitly?).

Jay wrote a post that really summed it up nicely when he said that Earl did not act out in any tournaments that he was running in because he would not tolerate it and if Earl did start something, Jay said he would nip it in the bud. As far as I'm concerned, that just about says it all.
 
Rickw said:
Personally, I think people should stop trying to second guess whether Earl has a mental illness or not. We should focus on the behavior because we can discuss what we've actually seen him do. I have no idea whether he has any mental problems and I seriously doubt that anyone else on here does either, and even if they do, it shouldn't be discussed on this board imho (ever hear of confidentialitly?).

Jay wrote a post that really summed it up nicely when he said that Earl did not act out in any tournaments that he was running in because he would not tolerate it and if Earl did start something, Jay said he would nip it in the bud. As far as I'm concerned, that just about says it all.
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Well said. a three TAP salute to you.
 
I see your point Rick and have always respected your posts. But I was trying to differentiate between a reason for behaviour and just calling someone a jerk. I dont think its evil versus good. I think there is a reason for his awful sometimes embarrassing behaviour.
Logic sometimes takes a back seat for a reason and often it is neurological or physical. Not because we are bad. I know because I suffer from it at times.
Earl has always been nice to me and it just jolts me when he behaves the way he does. Maybe he needs help. I know I did when someone pointed it out to me. Awareness of why we do things is the key here. Once you know you can do something about it.
On the other hand if we look back in history a lot of great people had some disturbing habits. I try to separate that from their contributions. Look at Picasso, Leonardo Da Vinci, or Van Gogh. Or Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. Great but wacky. In this sense Earl has changed the face of 9 ball. A real champion. What US Open 5 times? Who else? You got to be a little wacky to accomplish what he has done. You got to put extremely high goals for yourself. The pressure must be immense.
 
Rickw said:
Personally, I think people should stop trying to second guess whether Earl has a mental illness or not. We should focus on the behavior because we can discuss what we've actually seen him do. I have no idea whether he has any mental problems and I seriously doubt that anyone else on here does either, and even if they do, it shouldn't be discussed on this board imho (ever hear of confidentialitly?).QUOTE]

Actually, I do have an idea. I heard it FROM Earl!!
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12squared said:
First, I'm glad that Earl's not your "hero"...thanks for the clarification and point taken (nothing personal meant by my original statement :o) . Second, Let's just say for argument sake you are right about Earl, all is forgiven and he continues to play great pool with the occasional outbursts that are beyond his control. What about those that are playing against him and on surrounding tables, whom these uncontrollable outbursts affect...is it fair to them? It's still a major distraction that some can handle and some can't. Those that it affects have a great chance of losing their matches where they may have had a good chance of winning without all the hoopla. So I ask you, what do think can be done so Earl's "medical problem" only affects Earl and not others? Even though we now understand what’s going on with Earl, it's still a problem that needs addressing. Don't you agree?
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Don't worry I didn't take anything personally. Your point is a good one. And yes I do agree. I don't know exactly what could be done with Earl and conflicts with his opponents. However, when it comes to fans and Earl "KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT". It may be fun to watch Earl go off but, as you correctly said, it is REALLY unfair to everyone else playing in the room. At the last tournament I saw Earl (live), Earl was playing Efren. It was the Big Apple Challenge. Every game that Efren won a fan (I won't mention his name) would loudly say to his friend (sitting two rows up and about ten people away) statements like "See I told you betting on him was a sucker bet" or "See, you could have given 2 games and still won" etc.. this happened every rack. Guess what.....KABOOM..Earl lost it. Now I ask you, whose fault was that? The next day I went into my poolroom and people where saying "Earl went off...again" no one mentioned the fan. Oh, BTW, the fan had bet on Efren!!! (Sharking???)
 
yobagua said:
I see your point Rick and have always respected your posts. But I was trying to differentiate between a reason for behaviour and just calling someone a jerk. I dont think its evil versus good. I think there is a reason for his awful sometimes embarrassing behaviour.
Logic sometimes takes a back seat for a reason and often it is neurological or physical. Not because we are bad. I know because I suffer from it at times.
Earl has always been nice to me and it just jolts me when he behaves the way he does. Maybe he needs help. I know I did when someone pointed it out to me. Awareness of why we do things is the key here. Once you know you can do something about it.
On the other hand if we look back in history a lot of great people had some disturbing habits. I try to separate that from their contributions. Look at Picasso, Leonardo Da Vinci, or Van Gogh. Or Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. Great but wacky. In this sense Earl has changed the face of 9 ball. A real champion. What US Open 5 times? Who else? You got to be a little wacky to accomplish what he has done. You got to put extremely high goals for yourself. The pressure must be immense.
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I used to work in the mental health profession and it just isn't cool, imho, to talk about someone else's mental health. I've always liked your posts to Yobagua. I just think that it is inappropriate to discuss someone's mental health issues on a public forum. His behaviors are on the table because he put them there. Why does he do that? Who knows for sure. For all we know, he might have something entirely different going on. Whatever it is, that's his personal issue that he and he alone needs to deal with. When Jay said that Earl knew that he would put up with his BS and acted accordingly, that tells me that he can control that behavior if he feels that he needs to.
 
Fleece3 said:
Rickw said:
Personally, I think people should stop trying to second guess whether Earl has a mental illness or not. We should focus on the behavior because we can discuss what we've actually seen him do. I have no idea whether he has any mental problems and I seriously doubt that anyone else on here does either, and even if they do, it shouldn't be discussed on this board imho (ever hear of confidentialitly?).QUOTE]

Actually, I do have an idea. I heard it FROM Earl!!
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So, because Earl confided in you this gives you the right to talk about it on a public forum? People that know you should take this into consideration before they tell you anything personal about themselves. Next thing they know, it will be all over the web.
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Pistol Pete said:
Earl Strickland certainly brings up strong debate. But I think many people don't look at the whole picture. We must remember that since pool is not a huge sport like football or baseball, it has some unique opportunities for the fans. First of all, since venues are small, we have the chance to get up close and personal with world champions at tournaments. That allows us to see everything, good and bad. We also can mingle with the players outside of the pit. That's something you could never do in other professional sports. For me, that provides a unique opportunity that we should all enjoy.

Sure, Earl's far from perfect. But has anyone paid attention to how many spectators treat him lately? At this year's DCC Earl was playing a local Louisville favorite. At one point the favorite made a great shot and got a great applause. Earl made a great shot and no applause. With a smile on this face he said to the crowd "I guess only his shots are great." I firmly believe this comment was made in humor not anger. But some jerk in the crowd made a rude comment to Earl and that changed his demeaner. Again, if we weren't so close to the action, we may not even have this interaction. And the jerk rode Earl throughout the match. There's no reason to verbally root against any player. The fact that we can get close to these players should be seen as a priviledge.

I talked to Earl after the match and assured him that all DCC fans weren't like that guy in the crowd. He actually thanked me for that comment. He mentioned that it happens all over America. Has he brought some of it on himself, sure. But it seems to be a vicious cycle that we as fans must stop. I've had the chance to talk personally with Earl at many a DCC and always enjoyed it. When else do fans have a chance to talk shop with a legend of their favorite sport?

By the way, the next night after losing his 9 ball match, my 11 year old daughter wanted to approach Earl for a picture. We followed him out of the pit to the hallway. I told my daughter that he might not be real happy. When she asked if we could get a picture, Earl said "Of course. I talk to your dad at these tournaments all the time." While that not might not be exactly true, it made my daughter feel like she had a cool dad. I thank Earl for that.

Sorry for the long post but I think we must all consider the whole picture.
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you are not telling the whole story here, the reason why everyone was against earl that day was because of the way he was acting toward the local player, when earl was shooting, he was calling his pocket, but not very loud. when the local player got up to shoot, he called out his shots at the same level maybe even a little louder, and earl, as only earl can do, said in a very negative tone, your going to have to speak up louder, I need to know where you are trying to shoot the ball. as if the guy he was playing wasnt good enough to be playing on the table with him. earl won that game. this local player is a super nice guy, and one of those guys that would help any player with advice on the pool table. so the local crowd moaned and started talking when this happened, earl started talking to the crowd, calling the crowd names, which I wont repeat on here, and staring down people in the crowd.
during the 2nd game, the local player made a nice shot (game was bank 9), and someone in the crowd said "that a boy 'local player' roll with it. from there earl was out of control, cussing and fussing and talking to himself and everyone else that would listen. local player won that game and the crowd cheered loudly. then the wave of people came around the table, several hundered I would imagine.
the local player fired up instead of being intimidated and beat earl
I can see why alot of people do not like him, he was a complete @$$ to this guy and he never said one thing to him, the crowd took care of it from there.
I will say this though, I would like to thank him for one of the most memorable DCC matches I have seen, the excitement around that table was amazing. have never seen anything like that for one of the normal tournament matches, and I have been to every DCC. there have been a couple of late gambling matches that might have been as good. grady vs alex comes to mind off the top of my head many years ago.
 
Rickw said:
Fleece3 said:
So, because Earl confided in you this gives you the right to talk about it on a public forum? People that know you should take this into consideration before they tell you anything personal about themselves. Next thing they know, it will be all over the web.
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OK, I am going to respond to this and then let it drop. I NEVER said "Earl confided in me". I said "I heard it from Earl" at the time he was talking to four or five of us. Also if you watch the Earl vs Niels match on Accu-stats, the commentators talk about it quite openly, in fact it was Danny D that borught it up. So I have not violated any confidences. Also, I love the way you try to turn this into an attack on my charater. People that know me, know my charater and can speak on it. People that don't know me (pay attention here, cause this is you.....Ready?) can not and should not speak on my charater. I know it would be much easier to simply say "Earl is jerk" or "Earl is an ass". The point that I am making is, unless you know a person, ANY judgement is unwarrented. If I say "(Whomever) is a great person" it is because I know them, If I say "(whomever) is an a**hole" it is also because I know them. People are stating their opinion as fact. And even further, if you look at the title of this thread, people are willing to suggest that a person lose their livelyhood based upon their OPINION. I have even read, in this forum, people say "Diane Hoppe should leave Earl" WHAT!!!! You don't know Earl and you don't know Diane. And you certainly don't know their relationship (when I say "YOU" I am not saying "you" personally. I am talking in the plural sense of the word). Some people simply want to hate Earl. And that is their right. However, realize that it goes a little deeper than "Earl is a jerk"
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Gunn_Slinger said:
man give it a rest, unless your his doctor your way outa line.
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You're right, I am not a doctor. This subject is close to me because my best friend (since the 5th grade) is manic. I have been with him through the drugs, the drinking, the violence etc... When he is not having an episode he is a great guy. I have had to talk off the ledge many times. Once, I had one 27 hour phone conversation with him (he is in Ca. I am in NY) I had to talk him to a point of exhaustion. I finally got him to a point where he was "going to lay down". He was awaken 9 hours later by a knock on the door.....It was me!! Thats how afraid I was that he was about to kill himself. It is only because of him that I have researched manics so much.
 
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