Earl's comments about 8 ball

[jay helfert]

Eight Ball vs. 9 Ball

I think this is deserving of a thread: Earl actually says in the interview that, and I quote, he "can't wait to start playing 8 ball." Even though the context of that comment had to do with the use of the cut/soft break, it is interesting to note that EVERY pro I've seen comment about the IPT is excited about it (and not only because of the money).

Gabe Owen, in a conversation with a friend of mine at the World Summit, used Earl's words exaclty: "I can't wait." He also said he loves the idea of playing on slower cloth.

The same, of course, goes for Mike Sigel.

The pattern so far has been (as far as I can see) that, the *pros* are excited about the IPT and the switch to 8 ball on slower cloth. The *amateurs* keep saying that 8 ball is a game for bangers. Go figure.

Eight Ball is a much more difficult game to run racks! Very, very hard to win on the break, unlike 9-Ball. Much more strategy involved and creative safety play. Advantage goes to the best players, more so than in 9-Ball.

 

[jay helfert]

Slow cloth?

I have no reason to believe that you know what's going on in Earl's mind better than Earl himself. So I think I'll take the man's word for it. Earl has had a problem with the format of 9 ball events for a while, and Gabe had no reason to lie in a private conversation. My friend isn't a reporter for Billiards Digest, and Kevin Trudeau wasn't listening in on our conversation.

And by the way, I've heard pros say they'd prefer playing on slower cloth much before the inception of the IPT. Deadaim has mentioned this fact in several threads on this forum.

Almost all pool tournaments were on "slow" cloth until the early 1990's when the old men's tour (MPBA) made a deal with Simoniz for sponsorship, providing of course that their cloth be used. Until this time the fast cloth, like Simoniz and Granito, was strictly used for Three Cushion play.
It was a big adjustment for players back then, who were used to having to work the cue ball around the table. The best players had the biggest strokes and it may be that way again.

 

[jay helfert]

Ten Ball

Was it Rodney who said he'd prefer 10 ball since he's not very fond of "break contests"?
QUOTE]

I agree here. I know Danny Harriman is a big proponent of 10-ball also. 10-ball is more conducive than 8-ball to a TV format also. I don't think there's any balls that go right in on the 10-ball rack like the wing ball in 9-ball (although maybe the head ball could be made in the side easily).

Nevertheless the outs are harder since there's one more ball to create problem areas/clusters. 8-ball is a good game (esp. last pocket), but I don't think it will fly on TV which is important with respect to sponsorship money (outside of the IPT that is). JMO.

Definitely much tougher than 9-Ball. Its a solid rack and very hard to make the Ten on the break. Probably makes the rack 20-30% harder to run.
It was tried at a few tourneys in the early 90's, but dropped because the matches took so long (races to ten), and it appeared boring compared to the fast pace of 9-Ball. Players were playing more safeties and there were far fewer runouts. The spectators just didn't seem to enjoy watching as much.

 

[jay helfert]

Eight Ball vs. 9 Ball

The pros should be playing 10 ball, winner breaks with no break box. They should play on tables with 860 Simonis and 4.5" pockets that are cut like the Diamond tables.

Why is everyone trying to reinvent the game of pool by moving the rack and changing the rules everytime someone complains. Only the people in the US really understand the game of 8 ball. They play 9 ball everywhere else you go. You will see more racks run in 8 ball then you have ever seen in 9 ball with the pros.

Steve

No you won't!

 

[jay helfert]

Ipt

I hope everything works out. I think it will be very good for pool. With the money he is putting up, we should start to see some other tournaments with more money added. I agree that something has to be done to help out the state of pool. It will be nice to see the pros play for some life changing money for once.

Steve

I agree. That's what will make it exciting and maybe get the media to pay attention for once. Who cares about a tournament where the winner gets 10K? They pay more than that on the Hooters Golf Tour. When was the last time you heard about who won a Hooter's Tour event?

 

[F8it]

Definitely much tougher than 9-Ball. Its a solid rack and very hard to make the Ten on the break. Probably makes the rack 20-30% harder to run.
It was tried at a few tourneys in the early 90's, but dropped because the matches took so long (races to ten), and it appeared boring compared to the fast pace of 9-Ball. Players were playing more safeties and there were far fewer runouts. The spectators just didn't seem to enjoy watching as much.

Great seeing you on Forums again Jay!!! Hope to see more of you and imparting your wisdom and knowledge... you're a true asset here and one that needs taping into!!! Btw, a friend said he thought he saw you t.v. awhile back re: family issues! Is everything o.k. with yah'? He told me the name of the show but I won't post it out of respect, just in case.

Respectfully!!!,

F8it

 

[lewdo26]

Eight Ball is a much more difficult game to run racks! Very, very hard to win on the break, unlike 9-Ball. Much more strategy involved and creative safety play. Advantage goes to the best players, more so than in 9-Ball.

Thanks, Jay Helfert, I'll count you as another knowledgeable person to dispell the myth that 8 ball is somehow an inferior test of skills to 9 ball. I'm flattered you posted on this thread.

 

[Fred Agnir]

You should make it up to the Derby City Classic in January. They'll be having a straight pool event this year.

Are you going???

 

[Snapshot9]

The reason ...

that the pros are anxious is because they know they
won't get racks run on them like in 9 ball, but they
still think in the back of their mind that they can.

Funny thing is, what makes them think that they will
deal with the complexities of 8 ball better than the
other pros will?

Because they are thinking they will get 'more chances',
which may or may not be true. And even if they do get
more chances, they may not like the ones they get ...

No jumpsticks in the IPT will be interesting though.

 

[Doug]

IPT 8 Ball

Pros are excited because of the money but what is wrong with that? At a recent tournament I talked with a pro who has submitted his resume to be selected to be an invited player as he said all players will have to do. They are excited also because the money is guaranteed by a reputable businessman and hopefully the mens tour will become as professional and classy as the ladies tour. More people play 8 ball and can understand what is going on also. Agree that not as many runouts may occur but I remember aout 10 years ago seeing Scott Kitto win the toss playing Nick Varner then proceed to run 7 straight racks. Shows it can be exciting too!

 

[bruin70]

I think this is deserving of a thread: Earl actually says in the interview that, and I quote, he,,,,,,,,,,,(and not only because of the money).

:

anything other than 9ball is good, imo.....but it IS all about the money, and they being untruthful saying otherwise.

because they would have tried something else longgggg ago. if they were so bored. if the prize money was $20,000 they wouldn't give a frog's fart about the tournamnent.

 

[Danny Harriman]

To: naCLbandit

Yes eight ball could and probably will make it, the reason is because 'John Q. Public eye' can relate more to the game of eight ball, not to mention the fact that it is an easier game to produce on film and as a result this makes it more marketable. Think of it this way, when presenting a product if the buyer is allready familiar with what their trying to be entetained by then selling the product get's much easier. Now ESPN will not spend much on their production cost of pool events so we need to slowly build a product that is marketable, this again becomes easier for the public to respect and or understand when they allready feel like they have some knowledge of what it is they are seeing. But there will still have to be a personality profile from each of the top players so the fans at home may have some particular player that they choose to pull for. If we watch on the Poker channel they do a Bio. of these players and we are able to see their character away from the game, this is imperative to creating a product that is entertaining. When I played Earl on ESPN TV after he got lucky on me he went to say something and the Cameras cut him off, then why give us microphones if they don't want to hear our thoughts. Someone should come along with half 'a' brain and do something, I don't have the answer's but hopefully it will happen.
Sincerely, Danny Harriman

 

[sjm]

I am so excited that I'll have the opportunity to play the magnificent game of one-handed bank pool.

Well, that's what I'm guessing Earl would say if a one-handed bank pool tour with very big purses started up .

 

[juegabillar]

i would like to see straight pool again, i know it is boring, but i love to see big runs

The World Straight Pool Championship

Dragon Promotions is pleased to announce the revival of the World Straight Pool Championship. The event will take place in the New York City vicinity of the US on April 5-9, 2006.

There is already a buzz among some top players anticipating the event including committments from Legends of Straight Pool Champion John "Mr.400" Schmidt, European Straight Pool Champion Thorsten Hohmann, NYC legend Tony Robles, and former World Champion Bobby Hunter. "Straight pool is one of the most purest games ever, and the very first game that I learned. It's definitely one of my best games and I've dreamed of the day where I could compete with the world's best for the World Title ," says Schmidt. BCA Open Champion Hohmann says, "I am very excited about The World Straight Pool Championship! I feel straight pool is not only my favorite game, but my best game...and I finally can show the world my skills in it. Straight pool is finally back where it belongs."

The event has been in planning for several months now, but the primary reason of the event being brought to NYC has been the influence and support of one of straight pool's biggest philanthropist, Randy Goldwater NYC. Goldwater has been a consistent supporting icon of pool in New York City for years befriending such notables as George "Ginky" SanSouci and Tony "Silent Assasin" Robles. "When I heard that Dragon Promotions was planning the revival of the World 14.1 Championship, I knew right away that this event had to be in the New York City area. It's been too long since the last big one, and with the global diversity of players in the field that's being invited and going to attend, this may be the toughest and greatest straight pool event ever in history. I'm happy to be a part of the event and plan on supporting this for years to come."

The World Straight Pool Championship will be an elite field of 64 players including 10 qualifiers held throughout the US, Latin America, and Canada. Invitations are being sent now to players around the world and will also play host to former straight pool title holders and Hall of Famers.

For more information, please email dragonpromotions@gmail.com

By Press Release - September 29, 2005

 

[Fred Agnir]

I am so excited that I'll have the opportunity to play the magnificent game of one-handed bank pool.

Well, that's what I'm guessing Earl would say if a one-handed bank pool tour with very big purses started up .

I guess I don't understand. Earl has a WPA World Championship in 8-ball and pretty much plays every 8-ball professional tournament, doesn't he? Why would he be disengenous about his comments given that he already has shown he plays it and enjoys it?

I'm sure he's excited about the money, don't get me wrong. But, he does actually have an affinity for 8-ball, as the world championship he won got the "he's just a 9-ball player" monkey off his back.

Fred

 

[Fred Agnir]

No jumpsticks in the IPT will be interesting though.

Does anyone think that the no jump stick rule will be a factor? I suppose it could be, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal in the 8-ball tournaments I enter.

Fred

 

[Timberly]

Does anyone think that the no jump stick rule will be a factor? I suppose it could be, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal in the 8-ball tournaments I enter.

Fred

What seems like many moons ago when I spent time in a pool room trying to play the game, I really don't recall anyone having a jump cue. I think I knew of only 2 people that had a break jump cue. Life can & will go on w/out a jump cue folks.

It seems as if I remember someone telling me a long time ago that it's tougher to jump on simonis cloth....is this right? I don't know how or why that came about but just now thinking about jumping balls, I recall having heard that. Is there any truth to that? If there is, then using a full cue to jump on a felt table shouldn't be that hard....for the people that can play. The only people that need to "sweat" this slow cloth, no jump cue play, are the ones that RELY on the simonis cloth to do part of their work when it comes to getting shape & the ones that spent their time learning how to jump with a jump cue instead of learning how to kick or at least use a full cue to jump with. JMO

 

[lewdo26]

I guess I don't understand. Earl has a WPA World Championship in 8-ball and pretty much plays every 8-ball professional tournament, doesn't he? Why would he be disengenous about his comments given that he already has shown he plays it and enjoys it?

I'm sure he's excited about the money, don't get me wrong. But, he does actually have an affinity for 8-ball, as the world championship he won got the "he's just a 9-ball player" monkey off his back.

Fred

My sentiment, exactly. I'm in no way implying that these players aren't excited (even primarily so) about the money. Nothing wrong with making money, and lots of it... But the two things are not mutually exclusive:

a) Earl has had a problem with the format of 9 ball tournaments for a while now --- along with several others;

b) SOME players think that 8 ball will favor stronger players more so than 9 ball (my jury is still out on that one). And if indeed top players like the money, they'd ALSO like formats in which they won't have to share purses with 2nd tier pros, no?

That's all.

 

[Samy Strokes]

New 8 ball tour

I talked to a pro recently who said that a lot of them were happy about the new slow cloth because the fast stuff allows players with weaker strokes to move the ball around easily, while on the slow cloth you really have to stroke the ball. This of course also forces a more accurate aim, due to the added spin and force necessary much more often on the slow cloth.
I think a lot of the top pro's get frustrated when taken out in a tournament they're playing great in, by seemingly inferior competition that happens to get a few rolls and gets way out of line but simply goes around the table ten times with center ball.
Add to that six more balls to clog up the lanes as well as the more complicated strategies of 8-ball, and you get something that could be very beautiful to watch and perhaps a better test of who is playing the best that day.
He was of course also excited about the money, but then again, who wouldn't be.
Samy

 

[sjm]

I guess I don't understand. Earl has a WPA World Championship in 8-ball and pretty much plays every 8-ball professional tournament, doesn't he? Why would he be disengenous about his comments given that he already has shown he plays it and enjoys it?

I'm sure he's excited about the money, don't get me wrong. But, he does actually have an affinity for 8-ball, as the world championship he won got the "he's just a 9-ball player" monkey off his back.

Fred

Not doubt, I'm speculating a bit here, Fred. Where were all the professional proponents of eight ball before the IPT venture? The pros have always been in a position to play the game of the common man, and have never even come close to moving in that direction.

Earl plays superb eight ball, but that doesn't prove he loves it. Perhaps he does and perhaps he doesn't. Whatever he feels about the game, though, Earl is smart, and knows that he can be one of the big winners if the IPT venture is successful.

In short, there is ample motivation for Earl to make these comments about eight ball regardless of how he feels about the game, and there would be a lot of motivation for him to praise any other game that offered ample remuneration to professional pool players.