Earl's Forced Follow Shot

[DrCue'sProtege]

was wondering about the shot that was on Youtube i believe, a few days ago, in reference to Earl giving a lesson. it was the one where he made the cue ball follow three rails with inside (left) english i believe.

my question is which way did he shoot that shot:
1) high left, about 1030
or
2) center with 1 to 2 tips of left english

hope i am clear about what i am asking here. and is there really any difference in the way the cue ball behaves with the two methods?

DCP

 

[DeadPoked]

You actually use bottom outside english and jack the back of the cue up about 26 1/2 degrees. Make sure do the 1/2 degree because you won't come off the 3rd rail the right way otherwise.

Perform this 100 times and you will be well on your way to mastering game and becoming a champion.

God speed DrCue's.

 

[Scaramouche]

How about a link to the youtube video so we can admire Earl

Which method worked when you experimented, trying to figure out how he made the shot?

If you experiment and figure out what has to be done to make the shot, the shot will be yours forever. If someone tells you how to do it you will forget it.

 

[Jimmy M.]

I've seen Earl shoot the shot you're talking about. It must have been a favorite of his for quite a while now because I remember him setting it up and hitting it a bunch of times in practice in Reno one year in the early 90's. Here's how you do it: Load it up with high/inside English ... and have a stroke like Earl's. Good luck.

was wondering about the shot that was on Youtube i believe, a few days ago, in reference to Earl giving a lesson. it was the one where he made the cue ball follow three rails with inside (left) english i believe.

my question is which way did he shoot that shot:
1) high left, about 1030
or
2) center with 1 to 2 tips of left english

hope i am clear about what i am asking here. and is there really any difference in the way the cue ball behaves with the two methods?

DCP

 

[Blackjack]

Like Jimmy said, load it with high inside - I prefer mid to high inside.

It is also important to listen to how Earl adjusts his student's bridge - which is the minor adjustment that was necessary for the student to make the shot successfully.

Here is a link to the video.
My Lesson With Earl

 

[DeadPoked]

Earl seems like a good instructor from the video. Maybe I'll get some lessons from him sometime soon.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I can't understand what he is saying about the bridge.

Is it simply keeping it high and stable for the shot?

Like Jimmy said, load it with high inside - I prefer mid to high inside.

It is also important to listen to how Earl adjusts his student's bridge - which is the minor adjustment that was necessary for the student to make the shot successfully.

Here is a link to the video.
My Lesson With Earl

 

[Fatboy]

i know this guy keeps making up repetitive threads but this shot is a tough one i have a friend who started playing in 85 when i did it was clear he had alot more talent than me he blasts this shot in all the time and comes up good, as for myself i either miss the ball by 3 feet and get the CB righ or make the ball and somehow kill the CB in all thses ears i cant get this shot down-not even close

 

[memikey]

was wondering about the shot that was on Youtube i believe, a few days ago, in reference to Earl giving a lesson. it was the one where he made the cue ball follow three rails with inside (left) english i believe.

my question is which way did he shoot that shot:
1) high left, about 1030
or
2) center with 1 to 2 tips of left english

hope i am clear about what i am asking here. and is there really any difference in the way the cue ball behaves with the two methods?

DCP

Forget for a moment the difficulty of the actual shot involved.....re the highlighted bit.......are you actually asking in all seriousness whether a cue ball behaves differently when high side as opposed to centre side is applied..............?????

(post edited in a belated attempt at politeness)

 

[WesleyW]

I can't understand what he is saying about the bridge.

Is it simply keeping it high and stable for the shot?

Earl never mention to get the bridge high. He was saying to spread your fingers, so you will get a stable bridge.

 

[Flex]

i know this guy keeps making up repetitive threads but this shot is a tough one i have a friend who started playing in 85 when i did it was clear he had alot more talent than me he blasts this shot in all the time and comes up good, as for myself i either miss the ball by 3 feet and get the CB righ or make the ball and somehow kill the CB in all thses ears i cant get this shot down-not even close

Fatboy, I appreciate your posting this, as we all know you can really play, and it's a tough shot even for you.

If I may offer a suggestion on shooting this shot, which is very tough to pull off correctly. Maybe that's why Earl was showing exactly how to do it.

This shot combines several problems all in one and everything has to work right or it won't come off.

What I have found works for me is to shoot this shot with that awful stuff, back hand english. I find I'm able to deliver the cue ball to exactly the right spot on the object ball much more consistently than when shooting with conventional, parallel english. As the cue ball is really moving when it hits the object ball, and the angle into the corner pocket at that speed has to be pretty much dead on for the ball to pot, the back hand english way of aiming and stroking the shot has helped me get this down.

Once again, thanks for the post. Personally, I find it irritating when other posters continually belittle the posts of the original poster, and your post definitely helped put things in perspective. Rep to you, sir.

Flex

 

[WesleyW]

i know this guy keeps making up repetitive threads but this shot is a tough one i have a friend who started playing in 85 when i did it was clear he had alot more talent than me he blasts this shot in all the time and comes up good, as for myself i either miss the ball by 3 feet and get the CB righ or make the ball and somehow kill the CB in all thses ears i cant get this shot down-not even close

I know what you mean, I've encounter the same problem. I haven't practice this shot yet, so I don't know how to solve it. But I've noticed with my own experience, when using low left english, there is deflection to the right. But when using high left english, there is no deflection. Only spin that will turn the CB to the left. So, when using high inside english I always hit the OB too thin. If you really want to learn this shot, I would advice you to try this shot with slow/medium stroke.

 

[Blackjack]

Fatboy, I appreciate your posting this, as we all know you can really play, and it's a tough shot even for you.

If I may offer a suggestion on shooting this shot, which is very tough to pull off correctly. Maybe that's why Earl was showing exactly how to do it.

This shot combines several problems all in one and everything has to work right or it won't come off.

What I have found works for me is to shoot this shot with that awful stuff, back hand english. I find I'm able to deliver the cue ball to exactly the right spot on the object ball much more consistently than when shooting with conventional, parallel english. As the cue ball is really moving when it hits the object ball, and the angle into the corner pocket at that speed has to be pretty much dead on for the ball to pot, the back hand english way of aiming and stroking the shot has helped me get this down.

Once again, thanks for the post. Personally, I find it irritating when other posters continually belittle the posts of the original poster, and your post definitely helped put things in perspective. Rep to you, sir.

Flex

I agree with Flex and Fatboy. This is not an easy shot at all... ask anybody that has taken a class with me, I teach this shot too and for a good reason - it takes a GREAT stroke to perform it successfully. You would be surprised at how many advanced players can't get the proper action on the cue ball to save their lives.

FWIW not everybody that reads this forum plays the game at as high of a level as the next guy. Please, be respectful of the questions of others before beginners back off from asking questions altogether. Remaining teachable is the key to avoiding plateaus in your game. I have yet to see DCP ask a question where the answer did not provide a valuable lesson for players of all levels. There is a lot to learn on this forum even if you are not the person that asked the question.

 

[Fatboy]

I know what you mean, I've encounter the same problem. I haven't practice this shot yet, so I don't know how to solve it. But I've noticed with my own experience, when using low left english, there is deflection to the right. But when using high left english, there is no deflection. Only spin that will turn the CB to the left. So, when using high inside english I always hit the OB too thin. If you really want to learn this shot, I would advice you to try this shot with slow/medium stroke.

i have practiced it to death, worked one on one with my friend who fires it in easier than a spot shot, most recently with Tang Hoa-he has been known to play good, and its $hit luck for me to get it right, i cant see where to hit the OB CB pocket i'm in the dark every where on this shot. It is 100% the hardest shot that comes up regulary in pool and has cost me alot of $$$, wins etc over the years, its mandatory to have it down cold to play great. i have ZERO frames of reference on it, Tang worked tireless with me on it-were gonna do it again soon. someday i'll get it, ALL other shots I can at least see this shot i cant see $hit

 

[Fatboy]

I agree with Flex and Fatboy. This is not an easy shot at all... ask anybody that has taken a class with me, I teach this shot too and for a good reason - it takes a GREAT stroke to perform it successfully. You would be surprised at how many advanced players can't get the proper action on the cue ball to save their lives.

FWIW not everybody that reads this forum plays the game at as high of a level as the next guy. Please, be respectful of the questions of others before beginners back off from asking questions altogether. Remaining teachable is the key to avoiding plateaus in your game. I have yet to see DCP ask a question where the answer did not provide a valuable lesson for players of all levels. There is a lot to learn on this forum even if you are not the person that asked the question.

i got the stroke for it unless i hit it right then my stroke comes up short, so i aint got enough stroke to hit it accurately(i take a little off it). even when I make it and come up short or once in a while I come up right I cant see the shot in my mind so the second time I shot it i'm back to square one I cant see it, hell i have made it 3 times in a row and the 4 th time i cant see it, its like flipping coins-thats how well i can connect my mind to this shot-i CANT. GRRRRRR

my friend i mentioned has a stroke exactly like archer and might play as good if he had the self confidence(nother story) he can fire that ball in like he is breaking the balls that fast or slowly, when i put enough on it to come back the whole way i miss it bad if i take a little off it i might make it 1 out of 5 times, so yes my stroke needs attention, but i have been sick and ciomming off a 14 year lay offf the stroke is there but iseeing the shot never has been

 

[third_i]

I can't understand what he is saying about the bridge.

Is it simply keeping it high and stable for the shot?

As Wesley said, it appeared to me atleast that Earl was explaining how to spread your fingers to get a more stable bridge. A lot of people don't seem to realize that even a slightly unstable bridge can cause some serious issues with shooting... Even when I have one of those shots where I used a closed bridge I extend my pinkie as far as I comfortably can.

It's a good shot, an uncomfortable shot that you very clearly see whether you stroked it right. I need to work on it myself, it rarely comes up in games but when it does; it's a great weapon to have... But if you miss it, you've likely missed it in a bad way.

 

[NaturalEnglish]

Some interesting things in this video....

1. Earl seems to be aiming low...but obviously hitting high left. Is that his normal way of aiming?

2. Earl seems to be instructing to raise the cue by only using the fingers? How can one make a stable bridge on fingers only? I always have the back of my hand on the table. I just arch my hand to raise the cue up. I can keep the back of my hand on the table and raise the cue almost as high as the top of cue ball...seems more stable than not using the back of my hand.

I will admit this is a very hard shot to master...but is Earl's aiming and bridge instruction the best way to teach/achive it?

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Some interesting things in this video....

1. Earl seems to be aiming low...but obviously hitting high left. Is that his normal way of aiming?

2. Earl seems to be instructing to raise the cue by only using the fingers? How can one make a stable bridge on fingers only? I always have the back of my hand on the table. I just arch my hand to raise the cue up. I can keep the back of my hand on the table and raise the cue almost as high as the top of cue ball...seems more stable than not using the back of my hand.

I will admit this is a very hard shot to master...but is Earl's aiming and bridge instruction the best way to teach/achive it?

It looks to me that Earl is aiming at the 9 o'clock point, perhaps a trifle higher. Earl has his student using an elevated hand bridge, however, Earl's bridge is noticeably lower.

The shot works for Earl because of his longer bridge, and his smooth stroke and extended follow through.

 

[JohnnyOzone]

Some interesting things in this video....

1. Earl seems to be aiming low...but obviously hitting high left. Is that his normal way of aiming?

2. Earl seems to be instructing to raise the cue by only using the fingers? How can one make a stable bridge on fingers only? I always have the back of my hand on the table. I just arch my hand to raise the cue up. I can keep the back of my hand on the table and raise the cue almost as high as the top of cue ball...seems more stable than not using the back of my hand.

I will admit this is a very hard shot to master...but is Earl's aiming and bridge instruction the best way to teach/achive it?

Earl's ball definitely bent forward before hitting the side rail, so he did have some follow on it for sure.

I don't think the guy's bridge, after Earl got done working with it, was still what Earl would want him to have ideally, but it was a marked improvement. Earl seemed to be more concerned with "tightening" it up and spreading out his supporting fingers. He didn't address the heel-of-the-hand down on the table, but obviously you always want that heel part of your hand down unless you have to bridge over a ball or something.
Who knows - later in the lesson they might have covered it in detail.

What I noticed most was - look at how bad the guy was hitting the shot before, and how much better he hit it after Earl tweaked his bridge hand.

I have noticed over the years that most trouble shots I have are because of my stance - a lot of the time its that my bridge needs to move farther to the right when I'm trying to use right english, or farther left for left english. I know this was the key for me in hitting this particular shot well, after struggling with it forever.

Fatboy, I would bet the farm that your whole problem with this shot is in your stance/address.

 

[3andstop]

I recall seeing this video and I remain surprised that although Earl addressed the stability of the student's bridge hand, he did not address the student moving his right foot back about a county and a half, and getting down on the shot much better.

IMO (and I know ... who am I to second guess Earl) These type shots require much more "the mental feel" and a "oneness" with the shot than many other type shots do.

I don't think a player can accomplish this depth and purity of stroke and feel without really settling in better and being "on plane" with the shot. I was surprised that was never addressed.