earn $100,000 minimum in 2007?

[onepocketchump]

The top ten, or so, players will do just fine. some will exceed the $100,000.00. But for the vast majority remaining, it's near impossible. Especially those that signed 40-50% of their winnings to MT. When you punch in the qualifying and traveling expenses they have to win almost $200,000.00 from the IPT tour to net the said $100,000.00. Based on the numbers, the plan simply doesn't work.

A player's "earnings" are what that player brings in gross. That's what KT was referring to, that each player would earn at least $100,000 gross or he would make up the difference. What players pay to their various managers/backers and what they end up with has nothing to do with KT's promise.

Nobody ever reports on anyone's net income. As I understood KT's promise he will personally make up the difference in a player's gross income up to $100,000. How that will be determined is going to be interesting.

As for the plan not working.....with all due respect, neither you nor I are the impulsive multimillionaires capable of making such a promise nor having the ability to make good on it. Perhaps the fact that he said it is KT's own personal motivation to make sure that the deals are in place to insure that he doesn't have to personally back it.

As for giving money to Mark Trainer - no one twisted the player's arms to sign. And if there is any truth to the amount of the advances then the players are going to be at least $48,000 each to the good before they win a nickel.

So hypothetically, a player in 2007 gets last place in all the events, wins $20,000 and then gets $80,000 in make-up money. That player gives 48,000 to Trainer and splits the rest, they are still ahead. But, if KT applies the $48,000 to money earned due to the participation in the IPT then the player would only get $32,000 in make-up money. You see, here's the catch - KT promised that tour card holders would earn at least $100,000 BECAUSE they are IPT Tour Card Holders. So Mark Trainer is already fulfilling part of that for some of the players BECAUSE they are IPT players.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

Why do you think that? I would have said it there is a high possibility.

Questions are now being asked and for the sake of the integrity of the IPT, KT should make a statement on this whole issue. Surely, after all the discussion about KTs backround, he would want to avoid any controversy?
In a top-heavy payout tourny like the next Reno champs, the top 36 players take [ +/-] 70% of the prizemoney. If KT has a financial interest in certain players it would look very bad.
JMO of course.
Gabber

If KT has a financial interest in the players then it's SMART BUSINESS! Are you naive enough to think that the WWE doesn't have a part of the wrestlers they put on TV every week?

No one forced the players to sign with Mark Trainer. If Mark is in bed with KT then SO WHAT? I doubt that they are in bed together. I think Mark is an opportunistic glorified backer who is offering deals that range from the health care plan of a pimp to somewhat more reasonable depending on what he can get away with. If the player is willing to take the bait then it's only them who will be sad when they have to sign over a sizable portion of the money they just earned for ten grueling days of competition.

BUT it's ONLY because of the IPT and the FACT that the prize money is so lucrative and the possible endorsements are so lucrative that this is a real issue now. So, in that respect the IPT has in fact brought some money onto the table that wasn't there before.

John

 

[ScottW]

Yes. And Gabber knows that too. He is just being an ass.

Har. Do I need to go quote a bunch of *your* posts to illustrate just how ironic that statement is? :/

 

[jimmyg]

Do the numbers make sense?

A player's "earnings" are what that player brings in gross. That's what KT was referring to, that each player would earn at least $100,000 gross or he would make up the difference. What players pay to their various managers/backers and what they end up with has nothing to do with KT's promise. That may be what KT said, and it may be true, although I will believe it when the checks go out. Although, as you say, the player's private arrangements have nothing to do with KT's promise, I cannot imagine a tour where the players expenses exceed their incomes lasting very long

Nobody ever reports on anyone's net income. As I understood KT's promise he will personally make up the difference in a player's gross income up to $100,000. How that will be determined is going to be interesting. Most self employed people pay their taxes and live on their net income

As for the plan not working.....with all due respect, neither you nor I are the impulsive multimillionaires capable of making such a promise nor having the ability to make good on it. Perhaps the fact that he said it is KT's own personal motivation to make sure that the deals are in place to insure that he doesn't have to personally back it.Correct, I could not afford to fund a financially inviable tour. Secondly, KT is far from impulsive.

As for giving money to Mark Trainer - no one twisted the player's arms to sign. And if there is any truth to the amount of the advances then the players are going to be at least $48,000 each to the good before they win a nickel.Correct that no one twisted their arm, but another way of looking at it is that they may simply be in debt by $48,000.

So hypothetically, a player in 2007 gets last place in all the events, wins $20,000 and then gets $80,000 in make-up money. That player gives 48,000 to Trainer and splits the rest, they are still ahead. But, if KT applies the $48,000 to money earned due to the participation in the IPT then the player would only get $32,000 in make-up money. You see, here's the catch - KT promised that tour card holders would earn at least $100,000 BECAUSE they are IPT Tour Card Holders. So Mark Trainer is already fulfilling part of that for some of the players BECAUSE they are IPT players. Just a few things missing, John. In your above scenario, assuming that you are correct and KT does, in fact, decide to honor his "personal guarantee" of $100K to each card holder and pays the player $32K in make-up money. So the player was given $48k by MT, won $20K and KT gave him $32K, for a total of $100K annual earnings. Now he must repay MT $48K plus 50% of his earnings. Even if you calculate his winnings at $52K ($20k prize money plus $32K "make up" money from KT), thats still another $26K he owes MT aside from the $48K , leaving the player with $26,000 for the year, not considering travel expenses. barely enough to survive. And what if KT doesn't write "make up" checks? How many players can afford to continue playing on this tour, especially if they sign exclusivity contracts prohibiting them from playing on other tours? And if KT's promise is being misinterpreted and he doesn't pay any "make up" money, a lot of people are going to be financially hurt very badly.

John

Aside from maybe the top ten, or so, players, I think that it's a raw deal.

 

[Gabber]

If KT has a financial interest in the players then it's SMART BUSINESS! Are you naive enough to think that the WWE doesn't have a part of the wrestlers they put on TV every week? Are you honestly comparing Pro Pool/IPT with fake wrestling- where the winner is already decided BEFORE the match?

No one forced the players to sign with Mark Trainer. If Mark is in bed with KT then SO WHAT? .
Conflict of interest-ever heard of it? You see nothing wrong with KT paying the players, the players paying MT and MT paying KT?

John

I think we are in for a few surprise next year.

Gabber

 

[onepocketchump]

Aside from maybe the top ten, or so, players, I think that it's a raw deal.

When is the last time you ever heard a famous person's income quoted as their "income"?

The point being that I believe KT's promise is most likely aimed at a player's gross income from all IPT related activities - which include endorsements and backing arrangements that are 100% due to a person's participation in the IPT.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

I think we are in for a few surprise next year.

Gabber

Were you surprised to see the players all get PAID for the second tournament in a row?

If KT has management deals with some players directly or indirectly that brings money back into the IPT coffers or into his own who cares other than the players who chose to accept that agreement? I am sure KT isn't fixing matches and I am sure that the IPT will be on the up an up with Deno running it.

But if a guy runs around the tournament who is buying up a block of players you can be sure that the integrity of the tournament is comprimised. Wait and see when the reports come in of Mark Trainor players colluding to insure that MT players advance. And don't think for a second that the winning percentage will stop it. What is a player going to do when MT calls him up and suggests that his stablemate can advance if the player loses or wins by x-number of games?

The IPT will have to deal with these issues. Obviously to be 100% legitimate then the owner of the tour shouldn't be involved as a manager/backer to avoid conflicts of interest. But, if he is then that's smart business from a cash flow standpoint.

John

 

[Purdman]

I would venture to guess that when you were working on that first million you did things your way and were successful. You may have taken advice/help from some people you valued but in the end it all fell on your shoulders. So how come you seem to have trouble letting KT do things his way? It is his show and until a day comes when he does not meet payroll it will continue to be his show.

He has held quite a few tournaments so far and each and every one of them have been successful.

Just think how successful he and the IPT would have been if all the players were behind him.

Jake

Simply because the man has a reputation as a con man who has served time in federal prison and has been prevented from doing infomercials by our government. You will not find anything like that in my resume!!!
Purdman

PS: I was the kind of kid that would bite the candy to see whats inside, not just lick the sugar coating cause it was sweet.

 

[Blackjack]

How 'bout thru sponsorship, tv revenues, branded products and profit-sharing. That's what been said from the beginning. I know you negative guys will always be negative until it slaps you in the face and you think of the worst scenarios possible. What a way to lead your life. Guess that's why you aren't good enough to play in the IPT - too many excuses for life and the game. Talk to me only if you've done something substantial with your life. If you've made millions and if you care about the game, just step right up and do it your way. Sigel and Trainer - probably is business. KT and Trainer - very doubtful

Not good enough to play in the IPT? Want to find out? Seeing that you don't have the balls to attach your real name to your post, I don't expect you to have the balls to show up at my door. Anytime you want to find out if I've done anything substantial with my life or if you want find out whether I'm good enough to play in the IPT - show up at my front door. No excuses here, and I'm easy to find.

 

[Blackjack]

Were you surprised to see the players all get PAID for the second tournament in a row?

If KT has management deals with some players directly or indirectly that brings money back into the IPT coffers or into his own who cares other than the players who chose to accept that agreement? I am sure KT isn't fixing matches and I am sure that the IPT will be on the up an up with Deno running it.

But if a guy runs around the tournament who is buying up a block of players you can be sure that the integrity of the tournament is comprimised. Wait and see when the reports come in of Mark Trainor players colluding to insure that MT players advance. And don't think for a second that the winning percentage will stop it. What is a player going to do when MT calls him up and suggests that his stablemate can advance if the player loses or wins by x-number of games?

The IPT will have to deal with these issues. Obviously to be 100% legitimate then the owner of the tour shouldn't be involved as a manager/backer to avoid conflicts of interest. But, if he is then that's smart business from a cash flow standpoint.

John

John,
This has been a concern from the start. It is far too easy to manipulate the earnings and cut deals with other players and profit share with Mark. I hope Deno and Kevin pass a rule that states that you will lose your tour card for fixing matches or particpating in savers/deals. The only way that can be enforced is by attaching a stiff penalty, yet proving that a player is dumping is going to be extremely difficult.

MT approached Danny Harriman at the 14.1 World Championships in New Jersey. From the specifics of the deal that he was offered, monetarily things would not have been in Danny's favor once he made it on the IPT. It was a shell game with the money that he was offering the form of a monthly salary. I won't go into the specifics, but eventually Danny would have ended up owing money to Mark, or Danny would have ended up at $0.00 or somewhere close to it. I just hope that some of the players were smart enough to have attorney's review the contract like JAM and Keith did. The bait on the deal offered to Danny was the monthly salary of $4K. I'm positive that many players didn't listen to much or read much after they heard that number.

 

[Wags]

Not good enough to play in the IPT? Want to find out? Seeing that you don't have the balls to attach your real name to your post, I don't expect you to have the balls to show up at my door. Anytime you want to find out if I've done anything substantial with my life or if you want find out whether I'm good enough to play in the IPT - show up at my front door. No excuses here, and I'm easy to find.

Ahh, there's nothing like that old roady hustler mentality to liven things up. Jeez, that's one of the things that have kept pool in the dumpster for so many years. Of course, I was one who appreciated what COM, after the fact, did for the game in popularity but thought, "Why are players applauding a movie about hustling and dumping?" Is that what we want the general public to think about our game.

Blackjack, I can respect your game but not like your personal opinions and especially when you revert to the "hard hustle" tactics. Sure, take it to a personal level when somebody calls you out. Although, I wasn't even calling you out directly, you responded. At least you know that you are negative on the IPT for replying like you did. Do you think negativity you show is really for the good of the game?

This isn't about your game or my game and I don't really care if your game is better than mine. I care what is good for pool. Do you really think that who ever is better at playing pool between us will make more people believe our opinions? WOW!

Many organizations have had many years to bring the game to an upper level. Did they get the job done? NO! I don't think that there is any question that the IPT is creating and elevating the interest level for pool and actually giving 150 of the best players in the world a chance to make a living. This is a chance to make a living playing pool, not endorsing products, not selling their soul and giving a percentage of winnings to a backer. What is it this year, $17,000?, the majority of pros would have loved to earn that amount in a year through tournaments, pre-IPT, and that's last place.

Marketing 101 - Negative comments travel around faster and multiply quicker than positive comments.

If I were to start writing negative opinions, NOT THAT I CAN OR WOULD, about your articles, books, methods, etc. and kept bombarding day after day after day, you would lose sales and fan base. That is what I see the negativity toward the IPT doing, losing sales and fan base. The IPT needs and, yes, deserves support in what they are trying to accomplish. It's either this or go back to what was. I don't like what was, do you? Do you have an alternate plan to advance pool that you are keeping a secret about? Are you going to step in with your good life and improve what the IPT has started?

I know you will not change your ways by my opinions. You have created a fan base of negativity. I know you just want to beat me senseless on a pool table. I might even rise up to the occasion if I run into you somewhere and I might even win if I have a short match and a 30 year flashback. As for now, I'll post positive on the IPT and you post your negative. You can take my posts as a slam to you personally and I'll take your posts as being negative toward the best thing that has happened to elevate pool out of the gutter.