Eat your heart out John Barton

john ill give u a call tom and we will talk about maybe building a show stopper.Just bought a another rusty melton he should be postings pics of it soon, i will have it thur i cant wait i love his work. Its not fully tooled or anything but i am plainning on having him build me the fanceist version of the style case real soon we are about to start figuring out desgin.
 
Not a good analogy. Ford doesn't make improvements to Chevrolets and vice versa. Just like the aftermarket companies, like Edelbrock don't make cars. Plus as already stated, he didn't do it for the good of the industry, he did it as a slap in the face to Jack.

JV

The point is that when you make a product that is easily modified then ANYONE can make a modification for it.

I do it for the good of the user. The people who get my interior are way happier and they get to continue using the Justis and feel comfortable about it.

I still don't see where or why this is a problem.

Anything else a person buys they are free to modify in any way they wish to. If someone offers something that only deepens a person's relationship with a brand or product then what's the problem?

The customer wants a Justis but wants a little more padding than Justis provides. Great, we offer the padding and it's win/win for Justis and the customer.

If I could make new interiors for all brands of cases as easily as I can do it for Justis cases then I would. I don't see what's wrong with consumers having choices.

In fact one of the most interesting things I witnessed was two people in my booth discussing their cues and one of them had a Scruggs and he was quite proud of the OB shaft and said it played way better than the Z shaft he had on it before. I saw Timmy at the show and I believe if I had asked him if he cared what shaft a Scruggs owner uses he probably wouldn't care.

In fact many cue makers will custom fit shafts from Predator, OB, Tiger, etc... Seems like they don't care about it or think that Predator is slapping them in the face by claiming that a Predator shaft plays better. The point is that the cue owner has the CHOICE to play with the shaft that came with the cue, change to an aftermarket shaft, have one custom made for the cue, have any other cue maker make one, change the wrap, change the ferrule, the tip, the weight, etc...

No one bats an eye if people modify their cues but cases are somehow off limits?
 
john ill give u a call tom and we will talk about maybe building a show stopper.Just bought a another rusty melton he should be postings pics of it soon, i will have it thur i cant wait i love his work. Its not fully tooled or anything but i am plainning on having him build me the fanceist version of the style case real soon we are about to start figuring out desgin.

Dusty you obviously LOVE cases and you have some real high end ones. I love cases too and love challenges. Rusty knocks it out of the park with every case. So I like it when the bar is raised.

I will post some pics later of a case that one of my customers bought for his little boy. His boy is four but Luc will hold onto it for 16 or so years until Gabriel is ready for it.
 
very good comparison...why would putting a different interior in my case be any different then predator making shafts to fit different cues? I can see none...



The point is that when you make a product that is easily modified then ANYONE can make a modification for it.

I do it for the good of the user. The people who get my interior are way happier and they get to continue using the Justis and feel comfortable about it.

I still don't see where or why this is a problem.

Anything else a person buys they are free to modify in any way they wish to. If someone offers something that only deepens a person's relationship with a brand or product then what's the problem?

The customer wants a Justis but wants a little more padding than Justis provides. Great, we offer the padding and it's win/win for Justis and the customer.

If I could make new interiors for all brands of cases as easily as I can do it for Justis cases then I would. I don't see what's wrong with consumers having choices.

In fact one of the most interesting things I witnessed was two people in my booth discussing their cues and one of them had a Scruggs and he was quite proud of the OB shaft and said it played way better than the Z shaft he had on it before. I saw Timmy at the show and I believe if I had asked him if he cared what shaft a Scruggs owner uses he probably wouldn't care.

In fact many cue makers will custom fit shafts from Predator, OB, Tiger, etc... Seems like they don't care about it or think that Predator is slapping them in the face by claiming that a Predator shaft plays better. The point is that the cue owner has the CHOICE to play with the shaft that came with the cue, change to an aftermarket shaft, have one custom made for the cue, have any other cue maker make one, change the wrap, change the ferrule, the tip, the weight, etc...

No one bats an eye if people modify their cues but cases are somehow off limits?
 
New case

Hey Mr John could u build me a viking
Designed case with Celtic cross's that's
Fav design check out thread I just did with
My every day playin cue may surprise u lol
Or shock the threads mikes first ivory handle.
 
You all need to ask John why he doesn't do that test with the entire exterior on the shell. The reason is what you see doesn't happen with the exteriors in place. Take your justis when its top is closed, and squeeze it. The combined material thickness' and the gap in between the top and case exterior act as a cushion. When your pro-lite falls from a standing position, I guarantee Johns video claims are false. Will they vibrate, and possibly shake. Sure, but it is nothing like Johns video. Johns video is nothing short of a North Korean propaganda film, possibly made by the same company.

How many people think your case falling over is a common occurance? Really, you must be playing in a special needs pool room. Or that "disaster" piece in the front. TOTAL unmitigated horse manure.

JV
 
John u see my cases i posted in your
Fancy case thread?

I did. You have some fantastic work. The python one is incredible. Everytime I see it I think of the snake skin laid out by the pool and think about what a monster like that could do to a person.

Hey Mr John could u build me a viking
Designed case with Celtic cross's that's
Fav design check out thread I just did with
My every day playin cue may surprise u lol
Or shock the threads mikes first ivory handle.

Sure. There is literally nothing we can't do except deliver on time but we are working hard on that one. Got a few celtic cases to deliver before yours but those should be cleared off the books this coming month.
 
You all need to ask John why he doesn't do that test with the entire exterior on the shell. The reason is what you see doesn't happen with the exteriors in place. Take your justis when its top is closed, and squeeze it. The combined material thickness' and the gap in between the top and case exterior act as a cushion. When your pro-lite falls from a standing position, I guarantee Johns video claims are false. Will they vibrate, and possibly shake. Sure, but it is nothing like Johns video. Johns video is nothing short of a North Korean propaganda film, possibly made by the same company.

Well if you think this is true then I can send my Justis to the maker of the film. I don't know how you can possibly claim to know what happens inside a case in the few seconds that it bounces on the floor. It's impossible to see this with the naked eye which is why we did the super slow motion video.

I think you are speculating about what "acts as a cushion" and what doesn't. Are you an engineer Joe? I am not. But I know that what acts as a cushion is material that is made specifically to cushion. Foam rubber was developed to dampen vibration and minimize movement. So it's really easy from my perspective, the more foam rubber around an object the more it's cushioned from impact.

Our video shows what happens with just thin nylon, as what Jack used in his cases until the Chinese supplier decided to change it to minimal padding in 2010. So from 2006 to whenever Jack changed to the slightly better interior all those ProLites have only thin nylon for about 27 inches of the 31 inches of tubing.

Jack has told his customers that the newer interior is unneccesary. I don't agree. I think that the Chinese Sport interior is MUCH better than the Pro-Lite nylon interior. Still not as good as ours but better than the original one.

Now, for what it's worth I didn't identify any brand of case in the video. I hope that it leads people to think about what's happening in their cases a little more.

After all I saw a LOT of high end cues at the show. Cue makers spend a LOT of time figuring out how to put a lot of disparate materials together and people pay a lot of money for those cues. No one wants to see them damaged in any way. No dings, no finish bubbles, no hairline cracks, no sudden buzzes.

My point is that whenever shocks to the cue can be avoided then it's better. I mean you can say that you can drop a cue and nothing will happen and that's all good until something happens. I saw a lot of high end hardware pulled out of cases this show. I cannot imagine carrying around $5000 worth of cues on the HOPE that nothing will happen to my cues if I should hit a pothole.



How many people think your case falling over is a common occurance? Really, you must be playing in a special needs pool room. Or that "disaster" piece in the front. TOTAL unmitigated horse manure.

JV

You can call Jerry Olivier and ask him if you think that people don't ever have their cues falling out of a case. You know Jerry Olivier the cue maker, American Cue Maker's Association member? 20+ years making cues.

His # is 281-996-8030 Ask him what happened when he wanted to show me a new cue he just delivered to a sponsored player. Or maybe you think he is on my payroll and will lie for me?

The thing is Joe that no matter how much you continue to deny the truth people are able to see it for themselves. I am more than happy to dissect our cases and compare them to Jack's or anyone else's.

I will be happier when we don't have any protection advantage. When all case makers are doing protective interiors then we can compete on the other aspects like beauty and ergonomics and practically and custom options.
 
Meanwhile I will spend the time letting my Justis hit the floor repeatedly for 8 hours to simulate a common occurrence and we can let the crowd see if any part of the cue develops any kind of issue.

I'm not sure any case falling over repeatedly for 8 hours is a common occurrence. If it is, I don't care what kind of case a person is using. He shouldn't be housing any cues inside it. Period.
 
Jack has told his customers that the newer interior is unneccesary. I don't agree.

John, I have had my case since 2009 with 0 issues. It has been knocked over a couple of times with the cues in there and they were inspected afterwards with no damage. So either I am an extreme example or this statement you provided above is false.

Also, I work with some mechanical engineers that have their PE. Do I need to get them involved to really squash this garbage being posted :)?

I am not going to argue that the interior won't provide better protection as I have not seen or tried it. However, I am a satisfied customer for 4+ years now on this case.
 
FWIW, I leave my case top open while I play (especially in tournaments), and just this past Saturday it fell over. The Saturday before that it fell over too. It leans against a bench while I play and occasionally falls over because the base is an oval (and the open lid makes it lean further to that side).

While I think he may go overboard on the protection focus to some degree (i.e. turning an open case upside down with nothing falling out), I can appreciate the attention paid to the protective design. Despite my personal issues with JB, I doubt I'll ever own another case. The man may be a little strange (lol) and have some (relatively minor) communication issues, but the quality of his cases is top notch. He also stands behind his work with the determination of a honey badger.
 
The man may be a little strange (lol)

Based on what he was wearing to the expo on Saturday, the above is an understatement. :thumbup:

Frankly, I have no problem with John and his determination to create a casr that protects your cues. More power to him. But I think it best to let the cases speak for themselves. Let the customers do the talking. Posting videos about your competitors makes you look both insane AND ridiculously petty and immature.
 

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I guarantee you'll stop leaving your lid open as soon as a beer spills over!!!!
 
Fact: JB's Ultrapad interior stops cues from rattling around in the case and from falling out when the case is open.

Fact: The interiors used in various other cases, aside from certain tube interiors with thick felt lining, do not.

There's no spinning it. It's not a U.S. vs. The Evil Empire debate.

Take one case with the JB Ultrapad interior and shake it. Then, open the lid and turn it upside down. No rattle, no cues falling out.

Take one case with the lite lining type interior. Shake it. Open the lid and turn it upside down. Now, pick up your cues off the floor.

It's not a Justis vs. Barton vs. Porper vs. Whitten vs. King vs. Melton issue.

It's interiors. One is superior. Sorry if it's not designed by someone that lives in the USA.

Ask me if I'd rather own a Honda or a Chevy. I'd rather own a Chevy, but anyone with half a brain knows the Honda is superior across the board.

I'm not defending John here, but I am defending his products. He makes a great case and a great interior.

Also, I'm going to go on record here and now with the following statement.

"John Barton, though he may be the Anti-Christ to some people, has done MORE in the case making industry than ANY casemaker in history."

That being said, I don't own one of his cases. I just don't let my personal feelings blind me.
 
Case Incident this Weekend

I had an incident this weekend that made me think about this conversation and John's interior. I have a Murnak that I like but have been nervous when I turn it on its side to slide out some of the cues (obviously the cues sit a bit recessed in the tubes). The other day I thought I had all of them out except the butt of a cue and when I gently tipped the case, the butt slid into my hand, but an extra shaft I forgotten about slid onto the floor. I'm always very careful with my cues, but in this instance I just forgot about the additional shaft in the case. It was a light bulb moment when I thought that I needed an interior which prevents cues from sliding out. I love my Murnak and am not sure I will let it go, but I don't believe there is an easy way to modify it. I may just go purchase some sleeves of fabric for the cues to sit in inside of the tubes. But this weekend I clearly saw the value in an interior which prevents the cues from sliding out easily--tough lesson.
 
Fact: JB's Ultrapad interior stops cues from rattling around in the case and from falling out when the case is open.

Fact: The interiors used in various other cases, aside from certain tube interiors with thick felt lining, do not.

There's no spinning it. It's not a U.S. vs. The Evil Empire debate.

Take one case with the JB Ultrapad interior and shake it. Then, open the lid and turn it upside down. No rattle, no cues falling out.

Take one case with the lite lining type interior. Shake it. Open the lid and turn it upside down. Now, pick up your cues off the floor.

It's not a Justis vs. Barton vs. Porper vs. Whitten vs. King vs. Melton issue.

It's interiors. One is superior. Sorry if it's not designed by someone that lives in the USA.

Ask me if I'd rather own a Honda or a Chevy. I'd rather own a Chevy, but anyone with half a brain knows the Honda is superior across the board.

I'm not defending John here, but I am defending his products. He makes a great case and a great interior.

Also, I'm going to go on record here and now with the following statement.

"John Barton, though he may be the Anti-Christ to some people, has done MORE in the case making industry than ANY casemaker in history."

That being said, I don't own one of his cases. I just don't let my personal feelings blind me.


I think you might Because you see everything depends. I like John and I like Jack. But I personally have watched john attempt this cue won't fall out test with Jamie Wernsmans case and dumped about 20k worth of cues on the floor before jamie could stop him. Luck no cues were hurt in the test . Jamie likes a thin cue and there fore may still slide out . The best protection for a persons cues at the end of the day is vigilance .
 
It's not a Justis vs. Barton vs. Porper vs. Whitten vs. King vs. Melton issue.

This is where you're wrong. It IS a Barton vs. Justis issue. But... its an issue that John created. He's the one making these dumb videos. He's the one offering padded interior 'upgrades' to Justis cases. John is on a mission to sway people who are Justis lovers into 'realizing' that John makes the best cases around. PERIOD. He'll claim that's not his goal. That "its all about protection". But its not. Its about a pissing contest in which he wants to make Justis look bad.
 
This is where you're wrong. It IS a Barton vs. Justis issue. But... its an issue that John created. He's the one making these dumb videos. He's the one offering padded interior 'upgrades' to Justis cases. John is on a mission to sway people who are Justis lovers into 'realizing' that John makes the best cases around. PERIOD. He'll claim that's not his goal. That "its all about protection". But its not. Its about a pissing contest in which he wants to make Justis look bad.

Maybe I did trivialize the grudge issue in my attempt to defend the products and not the people.

This is where I shut up :)
 
I think you might Because you see everything depends. I like John and I like Jack. But I personally have watched john attempt this cue won't fall out test with Jamie Wernsmans case and dumped about 20k worth of cues on the floor before jamie could stop him. Luck no cues were hurt in the test . Jamie likes a thin cue and there fore may still slide out . The best protection for a persons cues at the end of the day is vigilance .

I agree with you that nothing is fool proof.

I stand corrected.
 
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