Ebay Leather Cases

onepocketchump said:
No, you got it right. Wow, those were the days!!! I recently changed my name to Barton. I took my wife's name. The "cowboy" models were a concession to mass production. I still favor the originals I made and long to get back to making one of a kind cases again. I also just bought a Nissen trampoline to start training again. Thanks for the memories.

John
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Those were the days! Hey if you ever start making custom cases again, put me at the top of the list. I think your first cases were pretty cool. The quality was awesome, you could run over the damn things with a truck and not hurt your cues.

There used to be alot of players coming to Germany at that time, Jimmy Reid, Nick Varner etc. Speaking of Jimmy Reid, wasn't it you that got mad at your Jimmy Reid signature cue and decided to make it more portable by reducing it to smaller pieces over the side of pool table, I think some German was trying to shark you during a money game? I just wonder what happen to all those folks, I know Mac retired, I think Ron Gissel is still in the military, I never really kept in touch with anyone else.

Have a good one!

Jim
 
jhendri2 said:
Those were the days! Hey if you ever start making custom cases again, put me at the top of the list. I think your first cases were pretty cool. The quality was awesome, you could run over the damn things with a truck and not hurt your cues.

There used to be alot of players coming to Germany at that time, Jimmy Reid, Nick Varner etc. Speaking of Jimmy Reid, wasn't it you that got mad at your Jimmy Reid signature cue and decided to make it more portable by reducing it to smaller pieces over the side of pool table, I think some German was trying to shark you during a money game? I just wonder what happen to all those folks, I know Mac retired, I think Ron Gissel is still in the military, I never really kept in touch with anyone else.

Have a good one!

Jim
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It wasn't me with any Jimmy Reid cue. I made him a case though. Those were some good times in Germany. Do you remember Chance? Remember Toby Sweet came through?

John
 
onepocketchump said:
It wasn't me with any Jimmy Reid cue. I made him a case though. Those were some good times in Germany. Do you remember Chance? Remember Toby Sweet came through?

John
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I don't remember when Toby Sweet came through. Chance sounds REAL familiar though. I'm in Germnay right now. The Air Force decided to send me here for 90 days. I didn't argue! The pool scene is still pretty good, but not what it used to be.

Hey, you remeber the Billiard Expo they used to have in Frankfurt. They used to have EVERYONE there. Ewa Mataya, Jim Rempe, Bustamante (before he was popular of course). All the big manufacturers used to be there. That was an awesome show. I played (or rather racked for) Jim Rempe as he ran 7 or 8 racks on me.

I'm sitting here trying to think of some of the other players...you remember Fat Tony, he used to shoot with a Bludworth sneaky pete and then I sold him a Schon. Who was the old Army guy that had the strangest stance you've ever scene, but would run out on ya' in a heartbeat? He started Ron Gissel in pool, damn my memory is going.

Jim
 
8-ballcash: Its a global economy dude. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the unemployment rate in the US about 5%? That's effectively zero.

You going to reply to my note on that computer, made mostly of parts from Asia?
 
Gremlin said:
Hi Jer,

There are other cases made in the USA that don't put American's out of work. As for my computers they are Dell manfactured in Texas and have world class service built and maintained by Americans.
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Actually, it depends. All Dell laptops are assembled in Malasia.

The new Optiplexes that we have here at work have motherboards assembled in China, the case in China, the power supply from Thailand, the CPU fan is assembled in Mexico. There isn't actually a single "Made in the USA" sticker on the whole thing even though the parts are assembled in the US, which has nothing to do with pride or quality. It is cheaper to import the parts and assemble here than to import finished goods. That's why toyota has assembly plants in Missouri for example. Or BMW in South Carolina.
 
Instroke cases were NEVER made in America. Instroke cases was my creation and first saw life in the attic of my German apartment building in Koblenz, Germany. The fact that Instroke cases have been made in Germany, Turkey, the Czech Republic, and now Taiwan has to do with chance meetings with the right people, where the production capacity lay and working partnerships more than where it is cheapest. When I looked at Kozak, in Klatovy CZ, I saw a company with over 100 years in leatherworking and the capacity to produce cases according to my designs and strict guidelines. I saw a company with people skilled enough to make and suggest improvements and professional enough to take pride in their work.

When the company in Taiwan suggested a partership I met a dedicated family who had already been producing cue cases for 30 years. I met people who had a sincere desire and the wherewithal to upgrade their production capabilities and methods to become the leading manufacturer of high quality cue cases in the world. This has nothing to do with price. The price of Instroke cases has always been based on what it costs to make them and get them to market.

I honestly never thought a bit about where the cases were made. The only thing that ever mattered to me is how they are made. Since Amercia consumes about 80% of all Instroke cases produced I would venture to say that the bulk of the revenue generated does indeed stay in America and fund jobs. I know I employed six people in Colorado and some of my customers were doing enough revenue from Instroke cases alone to pay for a couple employees.

John
 
8-ballcash said:
Hello,

Just wondering if it really makes any difference any longer here in the US? Instroke Cases are no longer made in this country. They were outsourced to Germany and Taiwan for the cheap labor.

I still try to buy US made products but with the outsourced industries as many as they are it is becoming hard to buy made in the USA. Instroke cases are what you get when you buy outsourced junk.

It may make no difference to you but it does to me.

8-ballcash
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I take exception to your labeling Instroke cases outsourced junk. Although mass-produced Instroke's were never made in Germany I doubt that you would find anyone knowledgeable who would classify German labor as cheap.

The Chinese established global trade eight centuries ago. America was once considered a cheap labor pool for Europe. Lou Dobbs is an idiot since he does not understand that we all live on a round ball together. Lou Dobbs does not complain a bit that there are 7-11's and Bennigans in Taipei. Lou Dobbs doesn't mention that other countries consume American products and concepts at a tremendous pace.

No one in America is GUARANTEED a job. Factories are built and staffed because a person or organization is filling a market need, when the need goes away or the production becomes too costly then it is the right of the company to move the production where it wants to. Often, this is down the road to another city, county or state. You act as though corporate America is the villian. This is the furthest thing from the truth that there is. The villian is America's apparently insatiable appetite for consumption which drives prices into the cellar making it impossible for companies to produce profitably in the face of higher wage demands to fuel the consumptive hunger. See the circle? I want more, therefore I demand more money. Because I spend all my money on stuff I fuel demand which increases competition which lowers prices and sends production to where the labor cost is least.

It's called the invisible hand, first identified by economist Adam Smith. The circle of prodution and consumption has been around since the beginning of man and concious interaction and will continue forever. Whatever you consider the state of things in America we are still the richest nation on Earth per capita with poor people with no health insurance looking like kings to those in third world nations. Our economy thrives despite whatever politicians and companies do. Next time you want to blame the Evil Corporations look in the mirror and around your house and your neighborhood and you will see the invisible hand at work.

Lastly, if you consider Instroke cases to be junk I will bet $1000 US DOLLARS that they will beat ANY similar case made in the United States in protection, durabilty, performance, ease-of-use, and price-to-cost value. Loser pays all testing costs for testing by an independent product testing facility. I didn't spend 14 years of my life working with and refining theses cases for them to be ignorantly labeled as junk.

Take care,

John Barton
 
jhendri2 said:
I don't remember when Toby Sweet came through. Chance sounds REAL familiar though. I'm in Germnay right now. The Air Force decided to send me here for 90 days. I didn't argue! The pool scene is still pretty good, but not what it used to be.

Hey, you remeber the Billiard Expo they used to have in Frankfurt. They used to have EVERYONE there. Ewa Mataya, Jim Rempe, Bustamante (before he was popular of course). All the big manufacturers used to be there. That was an awesome show. I played (or rather racked for) Jim Rempe as he ran 7 or 8 racks on me.

I'm sitting here trying to think of some of the other players...you remember Fat Tony, he used to shoot with a Bludworth sneaky pete and then I sold him a Schon. Who was the old Army guy that had the strangest stance you've ever scene, but would run out on ya' in a heartbeat? He started Ron Gissel in pool, damn my memory is going.

Jim
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The Frankfort show was actually a coin-op video game show with billiards thrown in, the IMEA show or something like that. It still goes on I think although the billiard participation is down. I used to like the purely billiards trade show in Essen. That was the show I debuted Instroke cases at.

I remember Tony vaguely and the funny stance guy's name escapes me. I never played with the Americans much while I was in Germany after I got out of the Air Force.

I wonder if Ron Gisel is still playing? That guy really turned out to be a good player.

Where are you stationed at?

John
 
Hey John another question for you. Would you say that your vinyl is stronger and more durable than the knockoffs leather?
 
onepocketchump said:
The Frankfort show was actually a coin-op video game show with billiards thrown in, the IMEA show or something like that. It still goes on I think although the billiard participation is down. I used to like the purely billiards trade show in Essen. That was the show I debuted Instroke cases at.

I remember Tony vaguely and the funny stance guy's name escapes me. I never played with the Americans much while I was in Germany after I got out of the Air Force.

I wonder if Ron Gisel is still playing? That guy really turned out to be a good player.

Where are you stationed at?

John
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It must've been the show in Essen I was thinking about. The one I'm thinking of didn't have any video games to speak of.

I hope Ron is still playing. I just looked up Ron, he's stationed at Spangdahlem, I'm going to have to look him up. I'm at Landstuhl right now TDY. I am stationed at Altus, OK. Not really much of pool scene there!

Later,

Jim
 
NOSAJ03 said:
Has anyone ever owned or used one of the numerous bootleg Instroke leather cases on ebay??? I was thinking of buying a 2x2 to have when I just feel like messing around instead of bringing my regular case. Do you think they are worth it? Im not looking for a replacement case but just an extra
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How did this question turn into the same old discussion about the Instroke case. I guess I did not answer the question properly. I thought it was about buying a case from a shady dealer. If it is about buying a cheaper case I would still buy from a reputable dealer. I own a Instoke and a Porper. I would choose the Instroke over the Porper and any other case to protect my expensive cues. But I do have a cheap case for the beaters. Why have a $300 case to protect a $50 cue. Go with one of the cheaper models but buy from a reputable dealer.
 
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onepocketchump said:
Lastly, if you consider Instroke cases to be junk I will bet $1000 US DOLLARS that they will beat ANY similar case made in the United States in protection, durabilty, performance, ease-of-use, and price-to-cost value. Loser pays all testing costs for testing by an independent product testing facility. I didn't spend 14 years of my life working with and refining theses cases for them to be ignorantly labeled as junk.
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I've read this challenge on several boards numerous times.

Has anyone ever took you up on it?

Personally, I've dropped my Instroke Premier case several times on accident (I'm a klutz), and each time I panic and check my butts and shafts and try to wobble the tubes inside and nothing has ever suffered the least bit of damage. Twice the case fell on its latch, and you're right, the new latch is indestructable.

-Roger
 
tonyk said:
What about Bentley cases? Are those any good, as far as durability, workmanship, etc?
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They are no good,I bought One from ebay the first of the year and as soon as I got it I noticed how cheap it looked.There were loose stiches every where.The inside felt was tore up to.
 
John Barton,

Barbara from the CCB has a friend who ran over her Instroke with a GMC Jimmy.

No harm was done to her expensive cues. Can't remember how the case fared but I think she said she is still using it.
 
buddha162 said:
I've read this challenge on several boards numerous times.

Has anyone ever took you up on it?

Personally, I've dropped my Instroke Premier case several times on accident (I'm a klutz), and each time I panic and check my butts and shafts and try to wobble the tubes inside and nothing has ever suffered the least bit of damage. Twice the case fell on its latch, and you're right, the new latch is indestructable.

-Roger
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No, and no one ever will unless they have some kind of financial motivation. This isn't really a question of which case is prettier, classier, more unique or any other aesthetic criteria. It is a question of pound-for-pound and dollar-for-dollar which tube case delivers the most case for the money.

I just spent another day of fixing Bentley and Vincintore cases and further confirming what junk they are. I almost don't want to work on them anymore.

You want to know which one is particularly a piece of crap? The It's George knockoffs by Bentley are the biggest POS cases I have ever seen in my life. They are the barest facsimile of a George case. Anyone who buys one of those travesties is in for a lot of dissapointment.

Nite,

John
 
onepocketchump said:
No, and no one ever will unless they have some kind of financial motivation. This isn't really a question of which case is prettier, classier, more unique or any other aesthetic criteria. It is a question of pound-for-pound and dollar-for-dollar which tube case delivers the most case for the money.

I just spent another day of fixing Bentley and Vincintore cases and further confirming what junk they are. I almost don't want to work on them anymore.

You want to know which one is particularly a piece of crap? The It's George knockoffs by Bentley are the biggest POS cases I have ever seen in my life. They are the barest facsimile of a George case. Anyone who buys one of those travesties is in for a lot of dissapointment.

Nite,

John
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Hey John when you make repairs on these cases what exactly are you repairing or replacing? Do you ever make the cases better or doing just repair them to their original state?
 
NOSAJ03 said:
Hey John when you make repairs on these cases what exactly are you repairing or replacing? Do you ever make the cases better or doing just repair them to their original state?
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So far we have fixed latches, rebuilt the bottoms, relined the tubes, added foam rubber, rebuilt handles, replaced weak rivets with strong ones and basically done jsut about everything short of creating a new case with the knockoffs we have been fixing. I cannot in good conscience deliberately repair something back to the sorry state it was in to make it break in the first place. So we ALWAYS do whatever it takes to try and make sure that at least the part we are fixing will not break again.

I so want to just have a bonfire and burn all of the knockoffs that I have seen the last three weeks. I am sorry for going on a rant but these case straight up suck. I mean they are really fucking bad! But hey, it's the way of the world I suppose and I can't do anything about the copies and nothing about all the lies and misrepresentations told to sell these worthless pieces of crap. The sad part is that players are purchasing these cases in good faith that they are getting something good. :-((

Oh well, I have made a decision to divorce myself from Instroke altogether. I am going to be working hard on the next generation of case design and to do this I need to be free of anything I have done before.

I hope that all of you on this board are a little smarter about cue cases now and can be a little more critical when you purchase.

Take care,

John Barton
 
onepocketchump said:
I am just going to say one thing. The Instroke case that I designed was an improvement over all other tube cases at the time of it's creation. Instroke cases have continually improved. The knockoffs are really crappy inside due to the various shortcuts taken in their construction. I know, having taken them all apart. You get what you pay for, a cheap price equals shitty construction. Whether the defective and dangerous methods are apparent or not from the outset, they are there. Buy a knockoff Instroke and you will get the barest facsimile of the protection and quality that Instroke delivers in EVERY case.

I have nothing against someone copying a design. When you look at a Cowboy style case though it is implying that it will protect your cue as good as an Instroke. This is not true. Let's forget about the shitty exterior construction on most of them. The interior is where the real ripoff comes from. This is the part you don't see until your cue is scatched, kept wet from moisture retaining fabric, banged around because the cheap foam disintegrated and so on. So, go on and buy the el Cheapo case.

The bitterness of poor quality is felt long after the joy of a cheap price has faded. I sometimes opt for cheap tools as well and even though I know what I am buying I am still pissed off every time they break when I need them most. My good, expensive tools never fail me.

John Barton
founder and designer of Instroke Cue Cases.
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I ordered one of your black/brown Coyboy 3 X 5's a few weeks ago, and it got here 3 days ago. What a beauty!!!!!!!! The room owner I bought from had several others to look at, but no Instroke's in stock, but a player down there showed me his 12 year old instroke, and that did it for me. I sell RV's for a living, not cheap ones either, and I totally agree money spent on cheap things is wasted money.

Ray Robinson
Oklahoma City
 
I actually received my ebay instroke knock off and it was everything a I expected it to be..... junk! Looks can be deceiving. It looks really nice from the outside but the minute I put my cues in case I knew its true identity. The tubes on the inside that hold the butt and shafts, stopped about a 1/3 of the way down. When you put your cues in, you can feel the tubes end and it feels like you are rubbing against card board! It probably is. You can squeeze the case on the outside and feel the housing of the tubes. But its not as bad as everyone points them out to be. It was definately worth the price. If anyone is interested in a cheap knock off Ill be willing to sell it really cheap!
 
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