effects of alcohol on one's actual level of play

[dr_dave]

everybody is different

Dave:

I think every person is totally different. I'm not even sure you can use the word "perceived" as a blanket statement for everyone. Forget a scientific study--- there's no doubt alcohol (and some people, drugs) improves some people's game.

If it doesn't improve your game (or even come close), it's easy to say it's all in someone's head. Was it Lassiter (or someone of that same legend status) who couldn't make a ball unless he had some whiskey in him?

This discussion keeps getting brought up and the answer is obvious. There's zero doubt there's such thing as "mixture" -- be it alcohol or drugs. I've been on the receiving end of a few "bathroom trips" that tore into me like machine gun fire (I'm sure many reading this have, as well). One second, someone is dogging to death. 5 mins later, they can't miss for 20-30 mins.

Alcohol has similar affects on a few people. Not everyone, just some. It's not perceived, it's fact. I've seen it. Not calling anyone out, but I'd bet Keither plays a ball or two better after a Budweiser or two.

Dave

I agree everybody is different. Also, everybody has different opinions. That's why I posted the poll.

I think the level of play for many people (especially the tense and nervous types) might benefit from a little alcohol. I also think the perception of one's level of play doesn't always match reality ... and alcohol (especially lots of it) can affect one's perception.

I didn't write the article or post this poll to determine any absolute truths. I was just curious what people think.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

perception

I enjoy drinking when playing pool, especially in a real tournament situation. It relaxes me. And of course it's "perceived." If I didn't perceive being relaxed, I wouldn't be relaxed! And whether or not I do well in the tourney for me has no bearing on why I drink during play. It's not important enough for me to not drink. I like to drink. End of story.

Fred, I like your story.

Alcohol relaxes you and also improves your perception of relaxation. You are truly blessed. :wink:

The perception I was talking about is the false perception of one's level of ability that alcohol can create for some people. Such a perception can lead to poor and reckless decisions at the table. You sound like a good drinker, so I wouldn't expect that of you.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

alcohol helps

Alcohol helps me a lot when I'm playing pool, but only when my opponent is drinking it.

I like the way you think. Good one!

Dave

 

[chevybob20]

I had to attend driving school in California around 1987. They showed us a film of an alcohol study being conducted by the Highway Patrol. This study showed that peoples driving actually improving up to around 2-3 drinks and then showed their skills tappering off with more consumption. By the way, I wasn't in school for a DUI and I don't drink when serious shooting (pool) is involved. I believe that the two beers does improve skills short term, but I get tired too quickly. Overall beer does not help me.

 

[dr_dave]

smart professors

I've never properly measured this, so I have no idea. Having said that, playing under the influence never brings out my best game.

This does remind me of a story, from 1980 or so (my third year EE I think). Anyway, one of my prof's had a old console TV in his office, and it was obviously modified. I asked him what it was about and he explained it was to measure reactions. The system caused a small 'dot' to move randomly around the screen. A joystick controlled a 1" ring, and the idea was to keep the dot inside the ring. The system integrated the time-distance relationship to show a score of how long/far the ring was away. This system was commissioned by our local government insurance company to measure the effects of alchohol. Prof. Jerry and his partner were well accomplished drinkers, and went along to the inaugural tests (I think they had free beer !). The results were that peoples performance improved after a bit of alchohol, with peak performance at a blood-alchohol level or about 0.03 - 0.04. At about 0.06 the results were about the same as 0.00, and by the time you were at about 0.08 the performances were noticeably poorer.

Just another data point, for what it's worth.

Dave (a mere Bachelor Dave)

BTW, these two prof's also had a method to measure the class of any drinking establishment. Every time they went to the bathroom they used the same urinal. Each visit they would toss a coin or two into that urinal. The measure of an establishment was how much money accumulated before it disappeared. These guys claimed that every place had its price, even 5-star restaurants

Thanks for the info and stories ... very interesting! I'd be curious to know the record amounts for the urinal experiment, both on the low side and the high side.

Dave

 

[JoeW]

Source http://www.middlebury.edu/campuslife/services/healthed/drugs/alcathletes.htm

Even Moderate Alcohol Use Can Have An Impact On Athletic Performance
Current research indicates that the impact of even moderate alcohol use on athletic performance is much more significant than was originally known. Even moderate use (2-3 drinks) results in:

A loss of motor coordination for up to 12 to 18 hours after drinking
Depleted aerobic capacity and negative impact on endurance for up to 48 hours after the last drink has been consumed
Other effects of alcohol use which last for hours after the blood alcohol concentration has returned to zero include:

Impaired reaction time Impaired balance and eye-hand coordination Impaired fine motor and gross motor coordination Decrease in strength Increased fatigue - fatigue coming on more quickly Difficulty in the body regulating its temperature resulting in an increased risk of heat prostration
Dehydration

----
Sourcehttp://www.utsa.edu/utsapd/Crime_Prevent/How%20Alcohol%20Can%20Affect%20Safe%20Driving%20Skills.pdf

JUDGMENT: The ability to make sound and responsible decisions.
? Alcohol affects your mental functions first, and judgment is the first to go, which means reason and caution are quickly reduced.
? Can be affected as low as .02% BAC

----
Source http://www.tcada.state.tx.us/issues/danger.html

Alcohol is a sedative hypnotic. It is a powerful drug available to virtually anyone who wants to try it. Buzzed: The straight facts about the most used and abused drugs from alcohol to ecstasy describes the effects of alcohol on the body:

About 20 percent of alcohol is absorbed through stomach, and most of the rest is absorbed through the small intestine. Alcohol molecules are carried through the bloodstream and come into contact with the cells of virtually all the organs. When someone drinks on an empty stomach, the blood absorbs the alcohol rapidly. The body also absorbs higher concentrations of alcohol, such as mixed drinks or shots, very quickly
Ethanol Dose

1-4 oz per hr impairs Judgment, fine motor coordination, reaction time Happy, talkative, boastful

----
Source Center for Disease Control (paraphrased)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=%22alcohol+and+fine+motor+coordination%22&start=40&sa=N

175 pound male drinks four 12 oz cans of beer has .08 Blood alcohol content (BAC)


At blood alcohol levels of 0.03 to 0.12, the drinker is in a state of euphoria. This is the beginning stage where self confidence increases, and the drinker feels good about him/herself. The drinker could also exhibit a short attention span, poor judgment, and have trouble with his/her fine motor skills

----
I am a scotch drinker but do not mix with playing pool if I want to play my best.

 

[LoReNz]

when i drink one, it makes me want to drink MORE.... i mean more till i get drunk. so id rather not drink before. i'll definitley drink after though! win or lose. you hear?? lolz

 

[Cue-Z]

Just a Thought!

I've noticed that someone who learns to play pool drunk, plays better drunk and vice vera!!! Just something I've noticed through the years!

 

[SJDinPHX]

from my personal experience there are two extremes with bad play coming in the middle


good play Buzzed- 3-4 beers and you're loose, confident and ready to play

bad play lit- 7-10 beers, you've lost a lot of motor skills and can't concentrate

good play Drunken Master- 12-16 beers, this stage doesn't work for every one however most outside noises and distractions are blocked out you're using the table to keep you from falling, and your concentration is actually above what it is when sober

BSJ, The secret to my suck-cess, has always been to move very rapidly from the "buzzed" stage, to the "drunken master' stage, thereby spending very little time in the "lit" (=bad play) stage. My record low time in the "lit"
stage averages about 34 seconds so thats why I play consistently perfect pool throughout the session. Rep to you for putting a label on the various stages. I used to refer to them as sober, drunk, and shitface.

Dick

P.S. I do not remember ever losing while in "drunken master" mode, however there have been a few unexplained ATM withdrawls. Probably identity theft !

 

[bigskyjake]

BSJ, The secret to my suck-cess, has always been to move very rapidly from the "buzzed" stage, to the "drunken master' stage, thereby spending very little time in the "lit" (=bad play) stage. My record low time in the "lit"
stage averages about 34 seconds so thats why I play consistently perfect pool throughout the session. Rep to you for putting a label on the various stages. I used to refer to them as sober, drunk, and shitface.

Dick

P.S. I do not remember ever losing while in "drunken master" mode, however there have been a few unexplained ATM withdrawls. Probably identity theft !

haha, nice

if I'm at an out of town tourney, come 10 AM buzzed jake usually shows up, I rarely last long enough in tourneys for lit jake or drunken master jake to show up :grin-square:

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I've noticed that someone who learns to play pool drunk, plays better drunk and vice vera!!! Just something I've noticed through the years!

Jackie Chan, is that you?

 

[dr_dave]

alcohol science

Joe,

Thanks for the links and summaries. That's good stuff (or bad, depending upon your perspective).

Regards,
Dave

Source http://www.middlebury.edu/campuslife/services/healthed/drugs/alcathletes.htm

Even Moderate Alcohol Use Can Have An Impact On Athletic Performance
Current research indicates that the impact of even moderate alcohol use on athletic performance is much more significant than was originally known. Even moderate use (2-3 drinks) results in:

A loss of motor coordination for up to 12 to 18 hours after drinking
Depleted aerobic capacity and negative impact on endurance for up to 48 hours after the last drink has been consumed
Other effects of alcohol use which last for hours after the blood alcohol concentration has returned to zero include:

Impaired reaction time Impaired balance and eye-hand coordination Impaired fine motor and gross motor coordination Decrease in strength Increased fatigue - fatigue coming on more quickly Difficulty in the body regulating its temperature resulting in an increased risk of heat prostration
Dehydration

----
Sourcehttp://www.utsa.edu/utsapd/Crime_Prevent/How%20Alcohol%20Can%20Affect%20Safe%20Driving%20Skills.pdf

JUDGMENT: The ability to make sound and responsible decisions.
? Alcohol affects your mental functions first, and judgment is the first to go, which means reason and caution are quickly reduced.
? Can be affected as low as .02% BAC

----
Source http://www.tcada.state.tx.us/issues/danger.html

Alcohol is a sedative hypnotic. It is a powerful drug available to virtually anyone who wants to try it. Buzzed: The straight facts about the most used and abused drugs from alcohol to ecstasy describes the effects of alcohol on the body:

About 20 percent of alcohol is absorbed through stomach, and most of the rest is absorbed through the small intestine. Alcohol molecules are carried through the bloodstream and come into contact with the cells of virtually all the organs. When someone drinks on an empty stomach, the blood absorbs the alcohol rapidly. The body also absorbs higher concentrations of alcohol, such as mixed drinks or shots, very quickly
Ethanol Dose

1-4 oz per hr impairs Judgment, fine motor coordination, reaction time Happy, talkative, boastful

----
Source Center for Disease Control (paraphrased)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=%22alcohol+and+fine+motor+coordination%22&start=40&sa=N

175 pound male drinks four 12 oz cans of beer has .08 Blood alcohol content (BAC)


At blood alcohol levels of 0.03 to 0.12, the drinker is in a state of euphoria. This is the beginning stage where self confidence increases, and the drinker feels good about him/herself. The drinker could also exhibit a short attention span, poor judgment, and have trouble with his/her fine motor skills

----
I am a scotch drinker but do not mix with playing pool if I want to play my best.

 

[Cornerman]

Fred, I like your story.

Alcohol relaxes you and also improves your perception of relaxation. You are truly blessed. :wink:

The perception I was talking about is the false perception of one's level of ability that alcohol can create for some people. Such a perception can lead to poor and reckless decisions at the table. You sound like a good drinker, so I wouldn't expect that of you.

Regards,
Dave

Oh believe me, I go over the edge enough, such that it impairs the $hit out of me and brings my game to the crashing and burning level it deserves. But, it just doesn't bug me if I end up shooting terribly due to drinking. If I shot terribly when I was drinking, I'm pretty sure I would have shot terribly if I wasn't. It's the swings of being an inconsistent amateur player that pisses me off. So, I might as well drink and enjoy the roller coaster.

Fred

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Oh believe me, I go over the edge enough, such that it impairs the $hit out of me and brings my game to the crashing and burning level it deserves. But, it just doesn't bug me if I end up shooting terribly due to drinking. If I shot terribly when I was drinking, I'm pretty sure I would have shot terribly if I wasn't. It's the swings of being an inconsistent amateur player that pisses me off. So, I might as well drink and enjoy the roller coaster.

Fred

Ha...well said.

 

[dr_dave]

liquor is quicker

Oh believe me, I go over the edge enough, such that it impairs the $hit out of me and brings my game to the crashing and burning level it deserves. But, it just doesn't bug me if I end up shooting terribly due to drinking. If I shot terribly when I was drinking, I'm pretty sure I would have shot terribly if I wasn't. It's the swings of being an inconsistent amateur player that pisses me off. So, I might as well drink and enjoy the roller coaster.

You're starting to make me thirsty.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Gregg]

If someone is willing to get me a a twelve pack of suds, I am willing to shoot pool, and report back how it effected my game.

 

[Siz]

I quit drinking about 15 years ago (for good reason). As I recall it gave me the illusion that I was playing better, while actually hurting my playing. As a now sober player, I see it every week in league. Our league is setup weird so you don't play a match one game after another, but one team member plays one game, then the next and so on in rotation. So the time from game one to game five can be a couple of hours, a guy that gave me a tough game in game one often sucks in game five.

I am in the same camp as Steve. In my drinking days, I would often think that I played 8 ball better after a few beers. But actually I was deluding myself (not that there is anything wrong with that - some of my happiest hours were spent getting drunk and deluding myself on the pool table :grin-square: ).

Certainly when I played snooker there was no hiding from the adverse effects of alcohol - even if I felt good, it showed in the runs.

Mind you, I know that it does nor affect everyone in the same way. I remember sitting at the bar in my local snooker club with my paying partner and good drinking buddy, John. We were both pretty hammered, but one of the players in the A team had not shown up for a league match and John was pressed into play.

He strode to the table, singing and spilling his drink everywhere, grabbed a house cue from the rack and ran seventy something, pausing every now and again to belch loudly. He then staggered back to the bar and collapsed. Those were the days!

 

[Jack Montgomery]

I voted yes: one or two beers makes me relax, have a good time, and let me operate on a more instinctual level. I stop overthinking things, which is one of my problems. I'm sure going into the 4+ range would definitely impair my game, but getting a slight buzz doesn't hurt too bad.

 

[WheatCues]

Dave:

I think every person is totally different. I'm not even sure you can use the word "perceived" as a blanket statement for everyone. Forget a scientific study--- there's no doubt alcohol (and some people, drugs) improves some people's game.

If it doesn't improve your game (or even come close), it's easy to say it's all in someone's head. Was it Lassiter (or someone of that same legend status) who couldn't make a ball unless he had some whiskey in him?

This discussion keeps getting brought up and the answer is obvious. There's zero doubt there's such thing as "mixture" -- be it alcohol or drugs. I've been on the receiving end of a few "bathroom trips" that tore into me like machine gun fire (I'm sure many reading this have, as well). One second, someone is dogging to death. 5 mins later, they can't miss for 20-30 mins.

Alcohol has similar affects on a few people. Not everyone, just some. It's not perceived, it's fact. I've seen it. Not calling anyone out, but I'd bet Keither plays a ball or two better after a Budweiser or two.

Dave

In my personal experience with my younger days of gambling with various unknowns on the road.. I have encounted that if my opponent is drinking and I am trying to keep him playing than you better believe if you are drinking water and they are drinking jack and coke he WILL pull up on you becasue you are obviously on a mission... so you learn to drink while gambling ...

In my time I have learned to "pace myself out" so I will drink water in between a few drinks to maintain levelness so that way I can perform with consistancy and keep the opponent interested in playing...

I am a "wired" person to begin with so I process alcohol very quickly but there is definitley a noticable difference when consuming alcohol while playing then when not !

Players like to take the "edge" off a number of different ways... I have experienced opponets using illegal drugs with the misconception that they play BETTER on them... when in all actuallity is that the "mixture" you maintains your current mental level of focus !

So the illusion that the drug make you play better is false it only locks you in to your current mental state....

in short if you are playing bad and do drugs you will continue to play bad and vice-versa.. but luckily for me I have the seasoned experience with gambling with every type of drug using player and know how to beat them everytime when I encounter this and it's within respectable tasteful means regarding pool ettiquette !

Drugs are a a poison no matter how you look at it and they remove a certain amount of reality out of the equation which I why that even when we drink too much we end up compromising our standards and go home with a girl that would be classified as "coyote ugly" the next morning when the alcohol subsides and reality sets in...




- Eddie Wheat

 

[PoolSponge]

Briefly, I answered yes for one simple reason...if my back hurts I have a beer or two and it dulls the pair so I can bend over how I want to in order to shoot well. If I am not sore then I would now say alcohol helps me at all. I do not need to use if for calming nerves.