Efren in action. Gets a spot?

JohnPT

"Prove it!"
Silver Member
I haven't watched the video in its entirety but looks like Efren gets the 9 in this game of 10ball. His opponent, Michael apparently plays Alcano even, if the youtube comments are accurate.

I love how Efren is always in action and seems to be everywhere!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9VwY3zrw2k
 

Atlatlien

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So they're playing slop 10 Ball? I didn't see Feliciano call that kick on the 5 in the beginning and the match-winning shot CERTAINLY wasn't called!!
 

JohnPT

"Prove it!"
Silver Member
Yeah call shot would have been more appropriate IMO especially for players of their caliber. But see Filipinos believe luck is a part of life so maybe they thought why not let it play out if she happens to show up. Besides, Efren is supposed to be the luckiest pooplayer ever!
 

Luther Blissett

on the clapham omnibus
Silver Member
While I enjoy the discipline of playing without slop, I do sometimes miss my old English pool days where luck played a big part in the game. It means that every dog can have his day. :smile:
 

JumpinJoe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While I enjoy the discipline of playing without slop, I do sometimes miss my old English pool days where luck played a big part in the game. It means that every dog can have his day. :smile:

Agreed. And that's something the pros don't like. They hate for an amateur to make a lucky shot somehow and end up beating them a set in a tournament.

They don't care that the amateurs that fill the fields are the ones supporting them.
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Is efren really at the point where people will spot him even a ball? Are there games he won't take if he doesn't get that spot? Or you figure he just takes it cuz he knows he can talk his way into it?

PS: yeah, I've noticed most filipinos and some other asian players play 10b as a slop game. Doesn't feel right.
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
It's okay by me to have a little luck in the game. I consider myself lucky if I make the ball I'm trying to make :grin-square:

What I don't like about no-call games is that it encourages players to take wild shots that completely re-arrange the table for no reason. Got a cluster of balls? No problem; just slam into them and send balls flying everywhere. It's like a hard-break mentality (the harder you hit 'em, the better your chances) on every shot. It gets kind of old.

I've noticed that it also keeps players from developing good safety play. I've seen lots of players pass up easy, lock-down safeties because they could slam at the balls instead.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is efren really at the point where people will spot him even a ball? Are there games he won't take if he doesn't get that spot? Or you figure he just takes it cuz he knows he can talk his way into it?

PS: yeah, I've noticed most filipinos and some other asian players play 10b as a slop game. Doesn't feel right.

Yes. Efren has lost a lot of speed on tough playing tables.
Playing in open air away pool room against the house pro has gotten tough for Efren down there .
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Silver Member
PS: yeah, I've noticed most filipinos and some other asian players play 10b as a slop game. Doesn't feel right.

Oddly enough, I feel opposite. And not because I'm Asian or Filipino. 10-ball has been around for a looooong time. Even at the professional level. It was slop then, so I haven't bought into the call shot version of 10-ball yet.

Freddie <~~~ needs to slop balls in
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agreed. And that's something the pros don't like. They hate for an amateur to make a lucky shot somehow and end up beating them a set in a tournament.

They don't care that the amateurs that fill the fields are the ones supporting them.

I don't think that's the reason. Why would anyone be rewarded for messing up? You try a shot and miss, you missed, go sit. They don't give you 3 holes in golf to try for or 6 baskets in basketball incase you miss yoru first shot so you can bounce around a bit and still score.

I have this same issue with missing and getting a lucky safe on the incoming player. I, as an amateur, LOVE called shots and also the ability to pass back a shot if it was accidental. In a match between real players, nothing the only lucky thing that should be OK is a lucky position shot AFTER you make the ball you were aimig for. Play a safe, call a safe. Other player has to shot even if you make the ball.
 

(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes. Efren has lost a lot of speed on tough playing tables.
Playing in open air away pool room against the house pro has gotten tough for Efren down there .

I agree with this post.

I wonder what the game would be if they were to match up on a diamond, in a pool hall somewhere in the US?
 

Banks

Banned
I don't think that's the reason. Why would anyone be rewarded for messing up? You try a shot and miss, you missed, go sit. They don't give you 3 holes in golf to try for or 6 baskets in basketball incase you miss yoru first shot so you can bounce around a bit and still score.

I have this same issue with missing and getting a lucky safe on the incoming player. I, as an amateur, LOVE called shots and also the ability to pass back a shot if it was accidental. In a match between real players, nothing the only lucky thing that should be OK is a lucky position shot AFTER you make the ball you were aimig for. Play a safe, call a safe. Other player has to shot even if you make the ball.

Bah, it takes some of the excitement away from it and makes it pretty stale. May as well take away (un)lucky rolls, lucky break-outs, etc.

In golf, you can bounce off a tree and still be on the fairway. You can hit the pin and the ball drops in the hole, even though you would most likely be much worse off had the ball kept sailing. Luck is involved in pretty much every sport. Pool can be pretty boring at times, it doesn't need to be any more so.

I do like the call shot aspect of bar pool, but most other rules are just call pocket.

What can I say.. I'm a bit lucky, so of course I'd like it. :embarrassed2:
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oddly enough, I feel opposite. And not because I'm Asian or Filipino. 10-ball has been around for a looooong time. Even at the professional level. It was slop then, so I haven't bought into the call shot version of 10-ball yet.

Freddie <~~~ needs to slop balls in

I am with Fred...I need to let 'em roll sometimes.

I get confused and have to fire away! :shrug:

And I will give Efren a spot for a couple of bucks a set. He can pick the game, as long as it involves billiards of some sort.
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Oddly enough, I feel opposite. And not because I'm Asian or Filipino. 10-ball has been around for a looooong time. Even at the professional level. It was slop then, so I haven't bought into the call shot version of 10-ball yet.

Freddie <~~~ needs to slop balls in

Just curious, was there ever a time in the old days when 10b (slop version or not) was popular in your area? By the old days, I guess I mean pre-2001 which is apparently when the first 10b majors started cropping up. I never saw it before, I dunno, 2008, and always as call-shot.

I wonder if the filipinos preference for slop 10b is due to a generation gap, and they're used to playing oldschool 10b... or if they jumped on the 10b train later, but decided they didn't like the call shot rule.
 

FreeShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's okay by me to have a little luck in the game. I consider myself lucky if I make the ball I'm trying to make :grin-square:

What I don't like about no-call games is that it encourages players to take wild shots that completely re-arrange the table for no reason. Got a cluster of balls? No problem; just slam into them and send balls flying everywhere. It's like a hard-break mentality (the harder you hit 'em, the better your chances) on every shot. It gets kind of old.

I've noticed that it also keeps players from developing good safety play. I've seen lots of players pass up easy, lock-down safeties because they could slam at the balls instead.

This is exactly what I like about the no-call games. It lets lesser players think that luck gives them a chance. Sure they will win some games here and there with that approach, but they will lose far more games by shooting low-probability shots.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Silver Member
Just curious, was there ever a time in the old days when 10b (slop version or not) was popular in your area? By the old days, I guess I mean pre-2001 which is apparently when the first 10b majors started cropping up. I never saw it before, I dunno, 2008, and always as call-shot.

I wonder if the filipinos preference for slop 10b is due to a generation gap, and they're used to playing oldschool 10b... or if they jumped on the 10b train later, but decided they didn't like the call shot rule.

Popular? Not that I know of. The first 10-ball professional tournament I heard of was the 1989 or 90 Dufferin 10-ball (Hopkins beat Howard in the finals). The game was in the BCA rule book and there was no call shot rule. I don't recall anyone going to call shot until the WPA decided to change the rule in... 2008?

I've been playing 10-ball as a practice game ever since the first time I read about it.

Joe Tucker has been calling for the pros to go to 10-ball as long as that.

The first TAR match ups were all 10-ball for the race to 100. No call shot. The first mass reintroduction to 10-ball was definitely no call shot in the mid 2000's. that's why a lot of us still stick with no call shot. It's not " old school" yet.

I read somewhere where Pete Fusco had a match in the 70's or 80's for 40 large playing 10-ball. He seemed to intimate that 10-ball was a popular gambling game in his area for top dogs.

Freddie <~~~ agreed with Joe for over 20 years!!!
 
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CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Do you figure the rule change to call shot helped its popularity any? Or is it mainly about 'fixing' the 9b break?
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Silver Member
Do you figure the rule change to call shot helped its popularity any? Or is it mainly about 'fixing' the 9b break?

If anything, the rule change IMO hurt the growth because of the conflicting rules, not necessarily because of the change itself.

It's rise in popularity I think is due to the internet streaming (TAR & Dragon Promotions among others) as well as the difficulty showcased by the game itself.

I remember some ... differences of opinions expressed at the Derby City Classic when players were matching up playing 10-ball (in 2008 or 2009) where the European who had been playing under WPA call shot rules and pass shot back wanted to play that way and the American who had played played 10-ball for years long before the WPA was in existence thought that was absurd.

Then comes "no 10-ball on the break in the bottom corners" etc. rules.

Freddie <~~~ doesn't know the current "World Standardized 10-ball rules" anymore
 
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