Efrens no rail spot show...

TheOne

TheOne

www.MetroPool.club
Silver Member
I thought I'd have a go at Efrens no rail spotshot while I was down the gym, err pool club today. I did a similar thing to what Jay did starting at the first diamon past the middle pocket. Any shot would be tough jacking up like that but I was suprised at how makeable this shot was. I moved the white down so it was half a diamond above the head string and tight on the rail and manage to make the shot a few times.

Finally, the big one! When you line this shot up it looks insane and it sure seemed like that for a while. I probably played this show about 40 times.

I made it 3 times with the cb only just reaching the rail. Finally I mad the shot with the cb finishing about 3inches from the bottom rail - I quit while I was ahead! :D

The trick with the shot seems to be finding the perfect balance between speed a back spin (needless to say you need to make the right swerve line). Too hard and you have no chance of beating the rail, too soft and the spin runs out and turns to follow (like a drag shot)

I would certainly think more than twice if somebody offered to bet me with 50 chances, but I'm sure if this shot would practised a mortal could get it down to 1-20?

I'm betting Efrens cue ball was much closer to the spot than mine too but I'm sure this can be improved by practise and increasing the swerve?

A truly amazing shot though and if a player ever pulls one off in competition given the extreme circumstances where there was no other shot they would be super heros in my book.
 
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What's the objective in this shot? Are you trying to stop the cue ball as close to the head spot as possible, or are you just trying to pocket the ball without hitting a rail?

The latter can be made fairly easily with a level cue stick, pocket speed, and cheating the pocket a bit. It can't be that simple...
 
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Even after hearing a couple people accomplish this, I still find it hard to fathom:( At least for a player like me LOL!
 
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tsw_521 said:
What's the objective in this shot? Are you trying to stop the cue ball as close to the head spot as possible, or are you just trying to pocket the ball without hitting a rail?

The latter can be made fairly easily with a level cue stick, pocket speed, and cheating the pocket a bit. It can't be that simple...
Click to expand...

From behind the headstring and without glue?
 
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believe it or not,,,,this can be accomplished with a slow roll shot. chances are, you'll notice on those shots when the cb barely hits the rail,,,the ob had more than enough speed to reach the pocket.....therefore you can hit it even softer.

once you do it, and you get a sense of the hit, you can slow roll the ob and make that shot over and over again.
 
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bruin70 said:
believe it or not,,,,this can be accomplished with a slow roll shot. chances are, you'll notice on those shots when the cb barely hits the rail,,,the ob had more than enough speed to reach the pocket.....therefore you can hit it even softer.

once you do it, and you get a sense of the hit, you can slow roll the ob and make that shot over and over again.
Click to expand...

I'd be very suprised if this was possible as its almost a half ball cut to make the ball if the cue ball is on the head string and touching the rail. The distance the ball has to travel to the pocket is longer than the distance the cue ball would travel to the rail after making contact. But 'll give it a try enxt time. However the ultimate aim would be to stop the cue ball near the spot shot but thats not really the bet as I understand it?
 
bruin70 said:
believe it or not,,,,this can be accomplished with a slow roll shot. chances are, you'll notice on those shots when the cb barely hits the rail,,,the ob had more than enough speed to reach the pocket.....therefore you can hit it even softer.

once you do it, and you get a sense of the hit, you can slow roll the ob and make that shot over and over again.
Click to expand...
I have gotten the cue ball about 5 balls from the head rail doing it with a SLOW ROLL amnd shooting from the side rail the last time this topic came up a few months ago... Since then I got the table recovered with Simonis 860 and havnt tried it yet. I will give it a shot tonite.

I can record this if anyone wants to see it.
 
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> I was shown this shot,amongst others by Smokey Bartlett,and he had 2 totally different ways to do it. He had the touch to kill it within 6 inches of the spot,from frozen on the rail like this.

START(
%HO4O7%IF9K7%Ph3Z8%UC9C6%VO1O6%WP1P4%Xh3Z8%YG5E2%ZN6N9%]K6S9
%^O5O9
)END

> Using this diagram,and his exact words,you aim to overcut the 8 slightly,about a ball and a half to the right pocket point. You take as level a stroke as you can with the cue ball frozen,and slow roll it with a as much topspin as you can with the speed you need to get the 8 to the pocket,and maybe 1/4 tip to the right. The inside spin creates a masse that breaks about 3 inches to the right over the course of the 55 inches between the rail right there in the corner and the spot,catching the 8 much fuller that you originally thought,and the cue ball sort of "pinches" the 8 to the pocket,and with so little energy left over,it can't get to the rail. He could do it maybe 55% of the time. As impressive a display of speed control as this is,his other method was downright disgusting. I'll diagram it here.


START(
%HO2O7%IG6U2%Ph2Z9%WB9C3%XN9O3%]D7S9%^g9Z6%_L1L4%`Y5W5%ah1Z8

)END

> In this method,he said he aimed at a spot 1/2 diamond to the left of the center diamond on the end rail. Using a very elevated cue,he massed with right spin,and timed his stroke so the swerve took place very late in the arc,similar to some of Mike Massey's finger pool shots. The cue ball breaks enough and far enough downtable that it pockets the 8 very close to straight in,and in one complete accident,followed the 8 straight in. Some of the things I saw him do I still have not been able to execute,most were his own proposition shots that he flat robbed people with at times,because he had them down so cold and the proposition sounded so preposterous. For example,if I offered to bet 100 bucks that I could pocket a spot shot and draw the cue ball back past the side pocket BEFORE it hit the rail,most people would empty out right? I thought so too. Him making it on the first try was enough to convince me otherwise. He explained it completely too,but have never even considered trying it. If anyone wants,I'll map it out for you. Tommy D.
 
TheOne said:
I'd be very suprised if this was possible as its almost a half ball cut to make the ball if the cue ball is on the head string and touching the rail. The distance the ball has to travel to the pocket is longer than the distance the cue ball would travel to the rail after making contact. But 'll give it a try enxt time. However the ultimate aim would be to stop the cue ball near the spot shot but thats not really the bet as I understand it?
Click to expand...

i think the point was to pocket a spot shot without the cb hitting a rail,,,simple as that. you can place the cb anywhere behind the line.

sjm was the first person i ever saw do it,,,,at amsterdam. when you see that it can be done, then you realize it's simply a matter of making the ob barely getting to the pocket,,,,and you see just how softly you can tap the cb
 
bruin70 said:
i think the point was to pocket a spot shot without the cb hitting a rail,,,simple as that. you can place the cb anywhere behind the line.

sjm was the first person i ever saw do it,,,,at amsterdam. when you see that it can be done, then you realize it's simply a matter of making the ob barely getting to the pocket,,,,and you see just how softly you can tap the cb
Click to expand...

Cool, will give it a try.

Would love to make the masse though and stop thw cb on the stop! :eek:
 
Nostroke said:
From behind the headstring and without glue?
Click to expand...

Yeah, as others have said, it's all about getting the object ball to just barely drop into the far side of the pocket. I tried it on old Simonis 860 and got the cue ball to stop about 2 or 3 ball widths from the head rail.
 
My best is also about 5 balls from the rail (on brand new cloth), I'm not positive but I don't think I even take a back swing I just poke it with outside. Someone (Jay H?) mentioned somebody being able to draw back to center table (jacking up I presume) I don't really practise the shot since I heard that crazyness.
 
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kyle said:
,,,,,,,,,,,,Someone (Jay H?) mentioned somebody being able to draw back to center table (jacking up I presume)
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must be efren,,,,or sayginer :):):)
 
Just got back from vacation. I tried it several different ways. The first with draw drag, cue ball positioned about a balls width off the long rail, on the head string. It took 3 or 4 tries, but I made it with the cue ball finishing two or three ball widths from the foot rail.

I then tried the same draw drag, but with a little inside (cue is naturally slightly elevated with the starting cue ball position) to give the cue ball just a little curve into the object ball. It took only 2 or 3 tries to make it; cue ball finishing just past the rack area.

I then tried slow rolling, starting with the cue ball frozen against the long rail. This took 4 or 5 tries before success; cue ball finishing a quarter inch from the foot rail.

All 3 ways seem quite doable. You certainly need to aim at the inside half of the pocket for as full a hit as possible. If avoiding a rail is the only criteria for this proposition, then I think any pro like Grady (who seems a master of the draw drag) or Danny D. (an obvious master of the slow roll) should be a favorite to make it at LEAST 1 in 5. I would wager on them anyway.

I would think that just straight draw drag, favoring as full a hit as possible is probably the highest percentage way (though the slight inside, curving shot seemed pretty easy). I would be interested to hear SJM's idea (since he seems to be master of the slow roll as well as the semi-masse').

P.S. - I've played this shot in a match with a very famous pro; making a spot shot with ball in hand to gain position near the foot rail for a below the rack break shot (though I could hit the foot rail a little and still have good break position) - I succeeded with just draw drag and a full hit, definitely one of the highlights of my straight pool career (unfortunately few highlights so far:) :) ).
 
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bruin70 said:
believe it or not,,,,this can be accomplished with a slow roll shot. chances are, you'll notice on those shots when the cb barely hits the rail,,,the ob had more than enough speed to reach the pocket.....therefore you can hit it even softer.

once you do it, and you get a sense of the hit, you can slow roll the ob and make that shot over and over again.
Click to expand...
I've made this shot before. I've got all my cameras packed up for Disney World, but I'll see if I can video it tomorrow.
 
I've got a "hustle" method of making this shot... Given that the only criteria are to pocket the ball, and that the cue ball not touch any rails, you could just do a slight jump of the cue ball into the OB, sending the cue ball over the rail and off the table. "Didn't touch a rail!!! Pay up!!!"

A related shot that my roommate back in Illinois often shows off is to set up the cue ball, eight ball, and another ball arranged in a line pointing at a corner pocket, each about 18 inches or so apart, eight ball between the cue ball and other object ball. (If I could install shockwave here at work, I'd post a CueTable diagram). He slightly jumps the cue ball into the eight with a medium-hard stroke, sending the eight over the other ball and into the corner. Fun shot! He's gotten to be fairly high percentage at it. Not to mention that he once used it to win a game of eight-ball against me...that bastard.
 
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