Elbow drop AFTER contact..? Help? Vids uploaded

ENGLISH! said:
Mike,

I was referring to how the upper arm relates to the body. The upper arm 'wants' to be along side of the body. That is it's natural position. So, when one bends down into a shot position & the upper arm from the elbow to the shoulder is then behind & above the line of the body it, the upper arm, naturally 'wants' to return to along side of the body. It is a form of stored energy that some want to keep pent up & unreleased. To me that is unnatural, contrived, counter intuitive & a waste of energy.

Best,
Rick
Click to expand...

I understand. I drop my elbow on many shots. I also keep a stationary elbow on certain shots. Just depends. I was referring to stroke shots and what causes unwanted movements during these attempts.

I have a hard time isolating my upper arm after training it to be part of a bigger body movement. It can be trained, but it will have to probably be a mental exercise over time rather than a physical refinement.

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
I understand. I drop my elbow on many shots. I also keep a stationary elbow on certain shots. Just depends. I was referring to stroke shots and what causes unwanted movements during these attempts.

I have a hard time isolating my upper arm after training it to be part of a bigger body movement. It can be trained, but it will have to probably be a mental exercise over time rather than a physical refinement.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

Do you lock your cue side knee?

B,
Rick
 
This is a trade secret, Mike, so don't tell anyone.

Mikjary said:
Rick,

I'm talking more about being in a static position before you really do anything stroke wise. The pool backstroke is quite different than most other activities.

I've had to retrain myself after a 20 year pool hiatus to quiet down my body movements so I don't have spasms halfway through my stroking. :grin: Swinging a baseball bat was one of the culprits, too. 90+ mph fastballs require a lot of parts to be in sync. :grin:

The static position I'm talking about would be grip related and how I end up before I take my backstroke. CJ's point about transferring your feeling of power away from the bigger muscle groups is the opposite of what I've trained for in baseball and martial arts. Interesting, and it makes sense on some embarrassing level. lol Not counter intuitive...basically what I try to do now.

Isolating the feeling of power into the arm area sounds simple enough, but is probably individually problematic. I would have to reflect on this to come up with an approach that might be right for me.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

The "bigger muscle groups" do help create "power," but not speed and acceleration, this is done with the wrist/hand/forearm in golf, tennis and pool.

I recently taught a 78 year old student to draw his ball like he had never experienced {in his life} by focusing him on the grip and "drawing" the cue back as he got down on the cue ball.

He had hammered a lot of nails AND shot a bow and arrow, so it immediately clicked for him and AT ONCE he had a new skill by bridging an old skill.

This is how I was taught (many new skills in various games/sports), and why "The Game is the Teacher' is so powerful.

We never have to learn anything new if we can simply add, bridge and multiply skills that we already have.....this is a trade secret, Mike, so don't tell anyone. ;) it's called "The Synergistic Effect"
 
The "Real Eyes" Secret to Playing Like a Champion.

Mikjary said:
I understand. I drop my elbow on many shots. I also keep a stationary elbow on certain shots. Just depends. I was referring to stroke shots and what causes unwanted movements during these attempts.

I have a hard time isolating my upper arm after training it to be part of a bigger body movement. It can be trained, but it will have to probably be a mental exercise over time rather than a physical refinement.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

I like to isolate certain factors and then let someone develop their own style of incorporating them. It's most effective (from my experience) to teach the perfect model first....but only one aspect at a time.

Drawing the cue back as you get down is one of these aspects and when you get the "feeling" of doing it, then you can do it so fast and effortlessly that it will be invisible to most eyes (that aren't the "real eyes" ;))

Make an attempt to work on the timing at the same time - the cue is drawn back deliberately and completes exactly when your bridge hand hits the table....the timing is important because it also establishes the timing you'll use in your upcoming stroke. "Begin with the End in Mind"......this will take on a whole new meaning, the "end" is the release of the cue, so the "beginning" is the {energy} coiling of the cue.

The main objective is to find a way to complete your entire stroke BEFORE you ever take it....that's the "Real Eyes" secret to playing like a champion.....then you can truly shoot each shot as if it's already been made. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
CJ Wiley said:
I like to isolate certain factors and then let someone develop their own style of incorporating them. It's most effective (from my experience) to teach the perfect model first....but only one aspect at a time.

Drawing the cue back as you get down is one of these aspects and when you get the "feeling" of doing it, then you can do it so fast and effortlessly that it will be invisible to most eyes (that aren't the "real eyes" ;))

Make an attempt to work on the timing at the same time - the cue is drawn back deliberately and completes exactly when your bridge hand hits the table....the timing is important because it also establishes the timing you'll use in your upcoming stroke. "Begin with the End in Mind"......this will take on a whole new meaning, the "end" is the release of the cue, so the "beginning" is the {energy} coiling of the cue.

The main objective is to find a way to complete your entire stroke BEFORE you ever take it....that's the "Real Eyes" secret to playing like a champion.....then you can truly shoot each shot as if it's already been made. 'The Game is the Teacher'
Click to expand...

I tried the movement you describe and an interesting thing happened as I was getting down on the shot. I assumed my stance with my cue stick drawn back as my bridge hit the table. I moved my stick to the cue ball to see if I had distanced myself correctly.

My back arm was not quite at 90 degrees, so I worked on that for a little while. I wouldn't have caught it unless somebody pointed it out to me. +1 so far!

The next issue that came up was when I got down, and just stroked forward. I was hitting slightly to the right of my target. I probably have been adjusting for this in my practice strokes and didn't notice. This slightly off center alignment was causing poor cue ball contact on my draw shots. I would occasionally get crazy unneeded spin on power shots. :confused: Once I saw the problem, my brain immediately fixed it. Amazing how the mind works.

Thanks for the tip. I think the idea of timing deserves a thorough discussion in another thread.

Best,
Mike
 
Mikjary said:
I tried the movement you describe and an interesting thing happened as I was getting down on the shot. I assumed my stance with my cue stick drawn back as my bridge hit the table. I moved my stick to the cue ball to see if I had distanced myself correctly.

My back arm was not quite at 90 degrees, so I worked on that for a little while. I wouldn't have caught it unless somebody pointed it out to me. +1 so far!

The next issue that came up was when I got down, and just stroked forward. I was hitting slightly to the right of my target. I probably have been adjusting for this in my practice strokes and didn't notice. This slightly off center alignment was causing poor cue ball contact on my draw shots. I would occasionally get crazy unneeded spin on power shots. :confused: Once I saw the problem, my brain immediately fixed it. Amazing how the mind works.

Thanks for the tip. I think the idea of timing deserves a thorough discussion in another thread.

Best,
Mike
Click to expand...

Please see the blue above. That is if we can keep the road blocks out of our mind's way.

Best,
Rick
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top