Elbow thoughts

krychekrowe

krychekrowe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When watching players like Shane, Alex, Efren or Busti they seem to line up with their elbow pointing towards their back. Not in a straight line as many prefer, why is this? Is it a personal preference or is there any positive alignment/stroke effects?
 
When you can play like those guys, you can do whatever you want...and the balls fall in. For the majority of the rest of us, having a consistent alignment of head, wrist, elbow and shoulder, in line with the shot, is the way to go...and the quickest path to a better game.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
many have the elbow more towards the back because they started to play at a very young age and they couldn't reach the table very well with a perpendicular arm.
 
Personally, I don't think any of us know enough about the mechanics of pool to discount ANYTHING that the pros do including elbow alignment, elbow drop, wrist twist, stroke swiping, elevated cue etc.

There are instructors who continue to probe the whys and the wherefores of unique playing styles, stances, grips, wrist lock, wrist loose, elbow drop etc. It may be safe to say that some people might be better off staying with a canned program but I believe that we are all individuals and some of these idiosycracies have GREAT VALUE for those who find they have a need to use them. The canned approach to teaching pool is a good place to start but you shouldn't stop learning there.

One thing that instructors have a tendency to teach that irks the hell out of me is that they teach that you should always have the same number of warm up strokes for every shot. That's just not the case for MANY, MANY, MANY TOP PLAYERS and even myself.

Things vary from one person to the other. I suggest that you experiment and see if any of these idiosyncracies can help your game. If they don't, put it on the side. Who knows, maybe one day that bit of information will help your game.
 
Slh said:
many have the elbow more towards the back because they started to play at a very young age and they couldn't reach the table very well with a perpendicular arm.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. Shane and Efren started off at a very young age. Efren has to pile up a couple of cart so he can stand on it in order to reach the table top when he was very young.
 
JoeyA said:
Personally, I don't think any of us know enough about the mechanics of pool to discount ANYTHING that the pros do including elbow alignment, elbow drop, wrist twist, stroke swiping, elevated cue etc.

There are instructors who continue to probe the whys and the wherefores of unique playing styles, stances, grips, wrist lock, wrist loose, elbow drop etc. It may be safe to say that some people might be better off staying with a canned program but I believe that we are all individuals and some of these idiosycracies have GREAT VALUE for those who find they have a need to use them. The canned approach to teaching pool is a good place to start but you shouldn't stop learning there.

One thing that instructors have a tendency to teach that irks the hell out of me is that they teach that you should always have the same number of warm up strokes for every shot. That's just not the case for MANY, MANY, MANY TOP PLAYERS and even myself.

Things vary from one person to the other. I suggest that you experiment and see if any of these idiosyncracies can help your game. If they don't, put it on the side. Who knows, maybe one day that bit of information will help your game.
Click to expand...


I feel there must be a reason why some professionals tend to gravitate towards "unconventional" mechanics. Whether it is more comfortable, promotes consistency, or lets you put a little more into the cue ball for those times when necessary.

Earl has one of the most powerful strokes, and he sort of curls his wrist as he's delivering the cue. Efren can spins the ball and moves like no one else
SVB's probably the best American player right now, so who can argue with his chicken wing? Didn't they say Mike Sigel had a chicken wing too?

Personally if I pin my elbow so it's pointing toward my back, it feels like I have less upper arm movement and a more consistent arm position in relation to my body (if that makes sense).
 
Personally if I pin my elbow so it's pointing toward my back, it feels like I have less upper arm movement and a more consistent arm position in relation to my body (if that makes sense).[/QUOTE]

This thought is what a friend of mine is trying out. He's more or less a pro golfer when not playing pool. He described a way of practicing swing technique were you place something in your armpit area and your goal is to keep them locked there while performing your swing. I know golf and pool are different sports and require different fundamentals but I like the thought of bringing info from one sport to another.
 
If you re instructing a beginner, it s always important to explain him why several things are important about stance, stroke etc. -
So here Scott is for sure right-
What JoeyA pointed out is also ok-everyone is individual. Even so if somebody has a tendence to have his arm a bit inside or outside the so called *perfect shooting line* that must not be a bad issue. Muscles, bones also haveing influence here.
Also some guys have a wonderful fluid stroke and moving naturally their elbow (elbow drop)- in such cases i usualy don t try to change it for him, if he s delivering his stroke repeatable straight. If i am 100 % sure that he have definitley have to change it, then i will tell him and also, that it will be a lot of work for him to change things like this. The most players are anyway very afraid to play less good than before (sometimes funny :p) by changing things on fundamentals.

Everyone is individual- this is sure-nothing fits for everyone.

lg
Ingo
 
Holding the shoulder in (adduction) provides greater joint stability and locks the long head of the triceps so that the elbow can be flexed and extended with less chance for unwanted ab/adduction shoulder motion .

Now you know.
 
Hmmm, where is Willie's elbow?
willie_hoppe-10099r.jpg
 
Great point in the pic above. There are a million ways to skin a cat and to say that everyone should hold a cue this way or that is for another discussion. Look at golfers and the different ways they swing, setup and play golf.
 
Kryche - search for "stroke instructor challenge" for my input. In short, I agree that having the elbow inside of the shoulder is the way to go and the vast majority of champions have that stroke alignment.

Scott Lee said:
When you can play like those guys, you can do whatever you want...and the balls fall in. For the majority of the rest of us, having a consistent alignment of head, wrist, elbow and shoulder, in line with the shot, is the way to go...and the quickest path to a better game.
Click to expand...

That's a very interesting conclusion lol
 
krychekrowe said:
Personally if I pin my elbow so it's pointing toward my back, it feels like I have less upper arm movement and a more consistent arm position in relation to my body (if that makes sense).
Click to expand...

This thought is what a friend of mine is trying out. He's more or less a pro golfer when not playing pool. He described a way of practicing swing technique were you place something in your armpit area and your goal is to keep them locked there while performing your swing. I know golf and pool are different sports and require different fundamentals but I like the thought of bringing info from one sport to another.[/QUOTE]

Keep bringing that golf information over here. We need all of the science and technique we can get.
 
JoeyA...Maybe I can explain that to you. We're not trying to teach top level players to change what they do. We're reaching out to players (of all abilities) who either struggle with consistency, or have reached a plateau in their skill level that they can't seem to break (btw, there are many millions of those kind of players out there...even experts). For those people, redeveloping a conscious process (mental and physical) that can be ingrained into an unconscious process is the goal. Most people cannot learn to do something without thinking (accurately and repeatably) without first coordinating it into a "learned" process. This is the main reason why we recommend everything be the same, including warmups. Remember this is a LEARNING process...not necessarily what the player will do later, after they have achieved the consistent stroke they're looking for. Naturally, after the process itself is ingrained, the brain can, and will, sometimes make small adjustments for specific situations (which is what I believe you're talking about).

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

JoeyA said:
One thing that instructors have a tendency to teach that irks the hell out of me is that they teach that you should always have the same number of warm up strokes for every shot. That's just not the case for MANY, MANY, MANY TOP PLAYERS and even myself.
Click to expand...
 
krychekrowe said:
When watching players like Shane, Alex, Efren or Busti they seem to line up with their elbow pointing towards their back. Not in a straight line as many prefer, why is this? Is it a personal preference or is there any positive alignment/stroke effects?
Click to expand...

It's a personal preference, and they've got it so locked in (have reached such a high level of consistency with it) they probably couldn't change it without destroying their game.

For me, my stroke only really wants to go in a straight line if I have my upper arm (line from shoulder to elbow) in line with the cue. If I get this wrong, and have the elbow off of that line, my stroke will swerve a little one way or the other as I dial in more power. Then again, I'm a good player, but certainly no pro.

-Andrew
 
krychekrowe said:
I guess this was a good way to increase awareness of my elbow mechanics. It seems to be working, which is good. I imagine my elbow, upperarm putting pressure inwards, not getting a major chicken wing but being more aware. I'll put me and my new train of thought out there for you to see, please be gentle!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBi5PZK2vxs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Click to expand...

I also noticed a very rigid wrist if I am not mistaken. How tight is that grip?

Although this is the first video perspective I have ever seen of a pool player, you didn't appear to have much of a chicken wing . It did kind of remind me of Tommy Kennedy's break shot but not quite as pronounced as his.

Does your arm tire from putting the inward pressure? Just curious if that effort would make you tired?

Thanks,
 
My brain is tired absorbing loads of interesting thoughts on mechanics. My arm does not tire from this thing. I should prob just find a pro here in Stockholm, Sweden and be done with it! I like finding my own way around things which might be a disadvantage sometimes. My grip is semi loose.
 
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