Eliminating luck, US Open 9-Ball

[dedstroke38]

I can see it now.

AZ forum members get the "The Longest Run and Most Prestigious 9-Ball Event in the world" to change the rules, just because these members (who have never played in the event and probably never even been to the event) don't like the current rules.

Making the 9 on the break by cheating. Rack adjustments. No win if the 9 ball goes in either of the two corner pockets behind the rack.

I can see it now.

An internet voting for each rule at any event. AZ memberts get 10 extra votes. That is because they are so wise to the way of the pros and tournaments that have been running for 35 years.

I cannot agree with you.. that would only make both of us wrong.

As far as I know, rack your own was a change implemented this year, so they have messed with whats worked. And IMO this rule is what causes some of us to think other rules would need to change to coincide this. So i agree, go back to how things have been. Loser racks.

 

[justadub]

Now since I'm one of those guys Tom in Cincy speaks of that hasn't ever been to a US Open, let alone play in one, may I ask a question?

From what I understand, they have 16 tables going, is that correct? That is the number of tables shown on the Real Time Scoring here on AZB.

Now I realize that help is expensive, and qualified volunteers might be a challenge, but is it that far beyond reality to think that you could have someone neutral to rack 16 tables in THE US OPEN?

Guess I'm so new to all this that I don't get it. And I really don't get it.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Using the "No Conflict Rules" http://goldcrownbilliardseriepa.com/noconflict.html

Pattern racking is gone.
Special racking gadgets are gone
Ball finagling while racking is gone.
Rack checking is gone.
Rack approving is gone.
Re-racking is gone.
The soft break is gone.
Special breaking gadgets are gone.
9 on the break is gone.

All logic to do any of the above is wiped out. It is all gone.

Now everyone can just shoot pool. Best player wins.

Now a good break is when you get a good spread on the balls, control the cue ball, control the 1-ball, and get an opening shot. Good enough!

 

[Mt. Cheverest]

I, too, was surprised to see rack your own at the Open this year. The 9 has always counted at this tournament so no shock there but it has usually been loser racks.

 

[Paul Schofield]

I, too, was surprised to see rack your own at the Open this year. The 9 has always counted at this tournament so no shock there but it has usually been loser racks.

This is just a short sighted effort to end the racking and breaking nonsense. It can never ever, NEVER EVER get fixed untill everyone finally figures it out, that it is the ball on the break that is causing all, ALL of the problems. It isn't worth it.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

IN the past events, whn the Sardo was being used they had 3 or 4 rackers available for the tournament matches that needed a rack. No player ever racked during that tournament. The TV table rack was done by one of the Sardo Brothers. Sponsers and Sponser's paid help did all the racking. I thought that was pretty good.

"Rack your own" may be a result of the "player's Meeting", players ask questions and see what the majority wants to do. This is when the Promoter and TD get together and discuss the options available. "Rack your own" probably was agree by the majority this year. I am just guessing about this.

Jay Helfert was there, he may respond.

Yes, help is very expensive. The help has to be dependable and make the commitment to know how to give the best rack available all the time for at least 5 or 6 days.

Now since I'm one of those guys Tom in Cincy speaks of that hasn't ever been to a US Open, let alone play in one, may I ask a question?

From what I understand, they have 16 tables going, is that correct? That is the number of tables shown on the Real Time Scoring here on AZB.

Now I realize that help is expensive, and qualified volunteers might be a challenge, but is it that far beyond reality to think that you could have someone neutral to rack 16 tables in THE US OPEN?

Guess I'm so new to all this that I don't get it. And I really don't get it.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

IMO, you should just send a note to Barry Berhman and tell him he has to use the 'no conflict rules' because his US Open 9 Ball Championship of 35 years is BROKE and if he doesn't fix it soon, it will fail. His 'short sidedness' will be his downfall.. I would love to see his reply to your note.

Have you ever been to the US Open and see how well run the matches are?

This is just a short sighted effort to end the racking and breaking nonsense. It can never ever, NEVER EVER get fixed untill everyone finally figures it out, that it is the ball on the break that is causing all, ALL of the problems. It isn't worth it.

 

[Black-Balled]

I played the open about 5yr ago and it was rack you own w/ Sardo.

I lost hill-hill, of minor interest- my opponent made the wing ball- it didn't even touch the friggin table on the way to the pocket- and ran out first 3 games. I checked the rack thereafter and the ball behind wing was not touching wing...like I said, lost hill-hill.:frown:

 

[JarnoV]

I can see it now.

Congratulations for writing the most annoying response I've ever read.

 

[Pool-Jumky]

I don"t think you eliminate the luck factor when you allow rack your own,
when some pro players have praticed this break that they have it down to
where they can make a ball on the break 82 out of 83 times. But they can only do it when they rack the balls themselves. So is it luck? I don't think so.

I have never seen so many lopsided scores 11 to 0 11 to 1 11 to 2
11 to 3

It is not very exciting to the spectators for these kind of scores.

What makes these kind of scores is rack your own and winner breaks.

Alternating breaks would keep the games closer and have your opponent racking the balls. Stick to the rules that are posted on the website that
states winner breaks loser racks!!

 

[Tom In Cincy]

International Annoying, My pleasure you are most welcome

Congratulations for writing the most annoying response I've ever read.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Have you ever been to the US Open and see how well run the matches are?

Yup. I have seen matches shut down for 10 and 15 minutes while everyone argues over the rack. I have watched pattern racking galore. I have watched players manipulate the balls (yes, I have seen some of them cheat). I have watched the smash-cut-break which IMO is just ridiculous that this is what they have to do.

What gets me is that it is all kind of OK with everyone. "If you can do it, I can do it too." No one is sure what the fix is. Everyone knows that the front end of our games is not right otherwise they wouldn't keep messin' with it.

If the Sardo Rack was so great, why is it gone? The answer is that it did not fix the ball on the break problem. It only made it worse.

You show me a fix without getting rid of the ball on the break, and I can easily blow a hole in it.

 

[inside_english]

A suggestion for some in this thread.

If some of you are so concerned about the racking rules, or the rules of the game in general, why not simply write to Barry Behrman to express them?

In this information age I am sure some of you can organize some sort of online petition with an electronic signature?

Talking about it on the forums only serves to fill up the forum pages, but will accomplish nothing except create conversation amongst AZB members, with no impact to the tournament, or any of the pros.

Secondly, if this is of concern to the pros, I am sure they would mention something to Barry.

I am not fond of "traditional" racks, rack-your-own, and the absence of a shot clock or a referee for each match.

We all have our "list of changes" we would like to see implemented, but ultimately this is Barry's tournament, not a democracy.

I have no objection to us talking about this, or anything else, on the forums, but if you really want change, then write the man and express them.

 

[SpinDoctor]

Unfortunately, the rack is the critical problem with playing 9 ball. Having someone rack their own really opens the door for rack manipulation especially when the 9 balls count.

The best solution that I can see if we must have a major national event being 9 ball is to have all players use the magic rack, congratulations to ANYONE making a 9 on the snap using one. Everything comes with a cost though and having a dead wing ball and 1 ball are pretty standard for a perfect rack but at least then you've still got to shoot your way out of the rack.

I can't believe that anyone would be surprised by someone working the rack. I would out of my seat EVERY game checking the rack instead of just hoping that my opponent wasn't a rack mechanic because at least then I wouldn't be able to ***** when the match was over.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Unfortunately, the rack is the critical problem with playing 9 ball. Having someone rack their own really opens the door for rack manipulation especially when the 9 balls count.

The best solution that I can see if we must have a major national event being 9 ball is to have all players use the magic rack, congratulations to ANYONE making a 9 on the snap using one. Everything comes with a cost though and having a dead wing ball and 1 ball are pretty standard for a perfect rack but at least then you've still got to shoot your way out of the rack.

I can't believe that anyone would be surprised by someone working the rack. I would out of my seat EVERY game checking the rack instead of just hoping that my opponent wasn't a rack mechanic because at least then I wouldn't be able to ***** when the match was over.

Magic Rack = Sardo Rack

same problem

 

[SpinDoctor]

Magic Rack = Sardo Rack

same problem

I've played with both and its not even close to the same thing. The magic rack requires no "training" of the balls and is dirt cheap. I just don't understand why people are so determined to keep racking the balls the old fashioned way when a perfect rack is so easy to get. The only issue with the magic rack is when balls end up resting on the rack itself, which happens so rarely.

Our last big event in this area used the magic rack on all tables and although there were some protests at the start from those who had never used it before, there were absolutely none at the end of the event. Never having to worry about what kind of rack your getting is a really really nice change to the game.

The bigger problem is that the game of 9 ball has an inherent flaw, which is the rack being vulnerable but so long as I'm forced to play it in major events, I'd much rather take the whole rack argument out of the equation with a perfect one every game.

 

[Paul Schofield]

I've played with both and its not even close to the same thing. The magic rack requires no "training" of the balls and is dirt cheap. I just don't understand why people are so determined to keep racking the balls the old fashioned way when a perfect rack is so easy to get. The only issue with the magic rack is when balls end up resting on the rack itself, which happens so rarely.

Our last big event in this area used the magic rack on all tables and although there were some protests at the start from those who had never used it before, there were absolutely none at the end of the event. Never having to worry about what kind of rack your getting is a really really nice change to the game.

The bigger problem is that the game of 9 ball has an inherent flaw, which is the rack being vulnerable but so long as I'm forced to play it in major events, I'd much rather take the whole rack argument out of the equation with a perfect one every game.

I will try this from another angle. Can you see where having a standard that is a perfect rack every time (with all balls touching) creates all new problems? Therein lies the reason the Sardo Rack is no more. IMO, the Magic Rack will follow the same route.

Furthermore, how do you stop pattern racking with a Magic Rack? I think it plays into the hands pattern racking.

 

[vincentwu817]

They can invent a cheap bingo machine where a computer just generates random numbers other than the 1 and 9 ball. And rack according to that. It would be very fair and quick, but i dunno.. the idea of that bothers me a little.

 

[Johnnyt]

Unfortunately, the rack is the critical problem with playing 9 ball. Having someone rack their own really opens the door for rack manipulation especially when the 9 balls count.

The best solution that I can see if we must have a major national event being 9 ball is to have all players use the magic rack, congratulations to ANYONE making a 9 on the snap using one. Everything comes with a cost though and having a dead wing ball and 1 ball are pretty standard for a perfect rack but at least then you've still got to shoot your way out of the rack.

I can't believe that anyone would be surprised by someone working the rack. I would out of my seat EVERY game checking the rack instead of just hoping that my opponent wasn't a rack mechanic because at least then I wouldn't be able to ***** when the match was over.

Ding, ding, ding...Magic rack. Johnnyt

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

maybe pattern racking is the answer.

and play 9 ball must.

re; Pattern racking. Yes, they should be pattern racked. Game 1: 1 in the front, then in numerical order clockwise around the rack. Game 2: 1 in the front, then clockwise around the rack starting with 3 (2 at the end) Game 3: 1 in the front, then clockwise around the rack starting with 4...

re; 9 ball must. 9 ball MUST be the last ball off the table. If its made anytime during the game (including the break) it's spotted and run continues as they lie.