English Billiards - Almost unknown in the US

Colin Colenso

Colin Colenso

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is a video of some English Billiards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWN6HUkGcAQ

You may have heard of legends in this game like Walter Lindrum and Fred Davis. In the early part of the century this was the only game in town in British Commonwealth countries. The top players were household names.

This was the game I played most in my youth.

Thought some of you who have heard about it would like to see how it is played. It's a great game for developing a knowledge of cue ball angles.

Colin
 
Jan Grzybowski said:
What are the rules ?
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One player uses the white ball, the other uses the yellow ball as their cue balls.

There are several ways to score:
Pot or scratch of Red = 3 points
Pot or scratch of Opponents Ball = 2 points
Note: If you pot the opponent's ball it doesn't come back on the table, so it is only done when there are no alternatives to continuing the break.
Cannons (Hit the opponent's CB and the Red ball in the same stroke) = 2 points.

There are limits to how many times you can pot the red in a row (3 off the spot) and how many cannons in a row etc. Which stop people from specializing in just one method of scoring as some guys mastered red spot potting and nursery cannons in the past.

You'll notice that the players prefer scratching to potting. It's considerably easier with practice. Some players specialize in scratching and can make some remarkable shots consistantly by utilizing a lot of side (english) as they call it.

Those are the basic rules. It is played on a snooker size table, but usually with a heavier nap, so that the english can be more active in making scratch shots.

Steve Davis was a billiard player of note and used to often play it for part of his snooker preparation. It's especially good for developing great touch with the cue ball.
 
Definately a fantasticly skillful game, but i'm a bigger fan of the carom game i think watching those players making some shots is just impossible!!!!!!
 
Colin Colenso said:
Here is a video of some English Billiards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWN6HUkGcAQ

You may have heard of legends in this game like Walter Lindrum and Fred Davis. In the early part of the century this was the only game in town in British Commonwealth countries. The top players were household names.

This was the game I played most in my youth.

Thought some of you who have heard about it would like to see how it is played. It's a great game for developing a knowledge of cue ball angles.

Colin
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Hey Colin,

Didn't Jim Rempe go over there and win the English Billiards title several times in the 1980's?

He also tried to play on the Snooker tour with little success.
 
jay helfert said:
Hey Colin,

Didn't Jim Rempe go over there and win the English Billiards title several times in the 1980's?
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No, he didn't.

That's Peter Gilchrist by the way. Along with Russel, Causier, Shutt and Bennet, the worlds top 5, and all from Middlesbrough. That's what happens when you start them young.

Boro Nut
 
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jay helfert said:
Didn't Jim Rempe go over there and win the English Billiards title several times in the 1980's?
Click to expand...

what Rempe played (and won) in the 1980s was the World Title for the form of 8 Ball that is played mostly in the UK. It is now being played in some other places around the world under the name "Blackball", the rules of which can be found on the WPA website.
 
I've seen english billiards played many times in Singapore my home country (used to be a british colony)....mostly played amongst the better players though.
 
weird game :) but i never had seen of heared of it. i knew frnech billiard but never english. thx for learning me another thing 6pack man :)
 
I think this is a great game to learn how to scratch intentionally (and thus how not to scratch) and to learn carom shots. Also by playing an older rules version, you can see why newer rules were adopted.

I have my own simple older rules version below. The only thing is one player can work themselves into a position where they keep pocketing a spotted ball with draw. And spotting the balls can then get tiring. This would be more fun to play if you hired someone to spot the balls for you and keep score.

Modified English Billiard Rules

Balls: Play with 3 balls; yellow ball, red ball, and cue ball.

Baulk-line and Baulk

A straight line drawn along the "head string" (end where break from - 2nd diamond) and is called the Baulk-line, and that line and the intervening space is termed the Baulk.

The "D": The "D" is a semi-circle described in Baulk with its center at the middle of the Baulk-line and with a radius of 11½in.

Spots: Three spots are marked on the center long line of the table:

-The foot spot (where 1 ball is placed for 9-ball rack).
-Center of table
-The middle of the of head string (middle of baulk-line).

Game

A game is the period of play from the opening stroke, until it is completed, by reaching the end of a specified period of time or either player reaching the number of points specified.

Cue Balls

The white ball is the cue ball of one player.
The yellow ball is the cue ball of the other player

The balls other than your cue ball are object balls.

Play

The choice of cue ball and which side is to play first shall be decided by lagging or a coin flip.

The red is placed on the spot other player’s cue ball on the center spot. The first player plays from in-hand (inside "D").

The players play alternately, or in turn, unless a score is made, in which case the striker continues the playing

Cue ball in-hand: The cue-ball must be struck from within the lines of the "D", and the cue-ball must be played out of Baulk.

The cue-ball must contact a cushion or ball out of Baulk before re-entering and coming to rest in Baulk, or before hitting a ball in Baulk.

The cue-ball may be played against a cushion in Baulk before hitting a ball out of Baulk.

Spotting Object Balls: Balls shall be placed on the spot closest to the ball return unless that spot is occupied in which case the next spot should be used.

Scoring: Points are made by pocketing any ball or by caroms - singly or in combination.

A carom or pocketed cue ball - 2 points.

Pocketed red - 3 points

Carom and pocketed white - 4 points.

Carom and pocketed red - 5 points.
 
jay helfert said:
Hey Colin,

Didn't Jim Rempe go over there and win the English Billiards title several times in the 1980's?

He also tried to play on the Snooker tour with little success.
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I'm pretty sure what the other guys said is correct.

I doubt Jim would have attempted to learn english billiards as the money had left the game, and it is the kind of game that requires years of building up quite specific shot knowledge and planning.

It doesn't surprise me he won the Blackball title. I think I read that before. He only would have had to adjust to the different sized balls, a bit tighter pockets and a few rule variations, but otherwise the important game skills from US 8-ball are transferable.

btw: I think most of the players still refer to blackball as 8-ball...at least down under. It's the 2-shot rules.

My tip for surprize outstanding performances on the IPT this year is that it will come from one of the several world class Blackball specialists participating. Watch Mick Hill and Darren Appleton among others.

btw2: While English Billiards is a game worth learning to pick up some rather unique CB skills, I find the game a bit repetitive and would prefer to watch and play 3-Cushion (if only I could find a table).
 
Colin Colenso said:
... btw2: While English Billiards is a game worth learning to pick up some rather unique CB skills, I find the game a bit repetitive and would prefer to watch and play 3-Cushion (if only I could find a table).
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When I learned English Billiards I didn't play well enough for it to be repetitive. The occasional high break of 20 and no more than three close cannons at a time keeps the game interesting. The half-ball angle did win me some money from a pool player who thought it was hard to scratch on a "snooker" table. (Red on the pyramid spot, white in the D, shoot with the butt of your cue, piece of cake.) That particular player was very hard to win money from otherwise.
 
thecardman said:
what Rempe played (and won) in the 1980s was the World Title for the form of 8 Ball that is played mostly in the UK. It is now being played in some other places around the world under the name "Blackball", the rules of which can be found on the WPA website.
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Thank you for correcting me. Jimmy won the English 8-Ball title a few times.
I believe this game is 8-Ball played with snooker sized balls on a very tight pocket, bar size table (maybe an 8').
One of you Brits tell me if i'm right about this. Thanks.
 
jay helfert said:
Thank you for correcting me. Jimmy won the English 8-Ball title a few times.
I believe this game is 8-Ball played with snooker sized balls on a very tight pocket, bar size table (maybe an 8').
One of you Brits tell me if i'm right about this. Thanks.
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Most of the time it's played on a 7' table.

The pockets are usually quite tight, so balls on or near the rails are hard to make. This figures quite heavily into the strategy as does the fact that it's a foul to pocket the opponent's ball. So covering pockets is quite an effective strategy.

The balls are smaller than snooker balls. The object balls are 2" and the cue ball is usually 1" and 15/16ths. This leads to a lot of stun back positioning, where speed more than spin is used to control the position.

It combines agressive pot out matches with some very interesting strategical battles. This was the game I was focused on for most my serious playing days. A fun and challenging game, but I prefer the US 8-ball game as it provides greater incentives for the shotmaker / out runner.

Colin
 
Cowboy

This looks like a game we played as kids in the 60's called coyboy billiards. It is so long ago I can't realy remember, but I think it was almost the same kind of rules with a little difrent scorring system.

JPA
 
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