In the recent McCready v Efren match, Mizerak talks about Efren playing with a $15 cue during the commentary.
Enough with the Indians and arrows.
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You can go buy the latest and greatest golf gear, but if you banana slice every shot, it's not gonna help you much until you learn what you are doing that causes the ball to slice, and correct the problem/problems. This will require changes in your mechanics, stance, and many other things most likely, along with a lot of hard work ingraining the changes that allow you to hit the ball straight.
You can give someone with a low skill level, an excellent cue, and you still gonna have a guy/gal that can't play worth a hoot. Equipment matters, but not nearly as much as the skill of the person holding the cue. This skill is aquired by doing many thing, most of which require hard work and dedication. Anyone that thinks that buying the latest and greatest equipment is going to improve their game dramatically VS aquiring good fundamental, practicing, and putting in the table time needed to improve, is dreaming.
You can give someone with a low skill level, an excellent cue, and you still gonna have a guy/gal that can't play worth a hoot. Equipment matters, but not nearly as much as the skill of the person holding the cue. This skill is aquired by doing many thing, most of which require hard work and dedication. Anyone that thinks that buying the latest and greatest equipment is going to improve their game dramatically VS aquiring good fundamental, practicing, and putting in the table time needed to improve, is dreaming.
exactly. I previously posted what would you rather have, the best arrow on the planet, or the best Indian on the planet if your life was on the line??
I'll take Earl with a house cue over an APA 5 with a Black Boar, all day and twice on Sunday.... so, it is the Indian, not the arrow. I'll take Jose Abreu in a hitting contest using a log he found in a ditch over Jose SixPack using a baseball bat made out of gold, touched personally by the hands of the Pool Gods, and kissed by Mother Teresa on her death bed, and blessed by the Angels that came for her
You have to put it in perspective. I did a search for what kind of cue did Efren play with. I found quotes from this forum as the source of the information. You also have to consider what quality cue he played with. When one says "$10.00" cue it brings up an images of a Budweiser cue with stickers all over it or a cue sold at K-mart.
There were very good cue makers in the Philippines and the dollar value of the cues were probably consistent with the local economy. They were far from the equivalent of what we consider a $10.00 cue. So to make that comparison is dishonest.
He was playing with cues that could be put beside our best cues regardless of what they sold for in the Philippines. Did they sell for the equivalent of $10. or $15. American dollars, who knows. But as was said in the famous movie, "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence"
"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend".
Here is a picture of him from around that era and you can clearly see his cue. It looks like it may be a conversion of some sort. It certainly may be representative of cues he used before he came to the US. Pretty good looking cue.
http://billporter.smugmug.com/photos/93480108-L.jpg
I will say he was not a cue-a-phobic (If that is a word) I saw him about to play a $5000.00 set with a house cue. I don't know why Efren didn't have a cue with him but he didn't. Mike Lebron left and came back with a Meucci cue that I think was probably his. Efren played with it but he didn't seem phased at all to bet that kind of money playing with a house cue.
He may be one of the few where the Indian and Arrow saying applies. He does seem to be able to play with anything if it has a tip on it.
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Banks
Banned
Is it just me, or does that cue look a little thin on the butt end?
I think part of it is what people have grown an understanding with through use. "Good" cues are fairly common now, so many people that play regularly don't have the experience of learning how to play with cues that aren't familiar to them and expect to have a perfectly shaped tip, smooth shaft, etc. I'm just as happy with a decent(to me) bar cue as I am with a "good" cue. I've had my massive 3-pack high runs with both, even a cue with a screw-on tip I think, but I'm most comfortable with a light cue with a hard tip. I feel like I can use just about anything, while most people don't even like using my regular cue.
For me the shaft and tip is the thing. I have two cues I play with off and on and I use the same shaft on both cues. I do prefer one butt over the other but not so much that I think it effects my play. One is just a little slimmer and I like it better. The cue itself is a 30 year old eyesore but I like it.
Few would ever play with it I bet because of the rough condition and looks. Doesn't bother me at all. A lot of musicians play with beat up instruments. Here is a picture of the cue. It spent like 24 hours under water some years ago after a hurricane.
After it hanging in the rafters for years I took it down and put a shaft on it figuring maybe it could be used for a break cue. After hitting some balls with it I began using it full time again. I had forgotten how good the cue played and it still does.
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exactly. I previously posted what would you rather have, the best arrow on the planet, or the best Indian on the planet if your life was on the line??
I'll take Earl with a house cue over an APA 5 with a Black Boar, all day and twice on Sunday.... so, it is the Indian, not the arrow. I'll take Jose Abreu in a hitting contest using a log he found in a ditch over Jose SixPack using a baseball bat made out of gold, touched personally by the hands of the Pool Gods, and kissed by Mother Teresa on her death bed, and blessed by the Angels that came for her
I'm not going for this reasoning, RJ.
If the two best players on the planet were playing, would you bet on the
one with the house cue, or the one with a Black Boar?
Hell, there's people I can beat using a chair leg, but I can't beat someone
I would normally play even with.
Banks
Banned
If I was playing somebody that I normally play even with, I'd go with my bar cue before I picked up a cue I wasn't accustomed to. If the Black Boar was closer to what I normally used, then that would be another thing. Lately, I haven't been bringing my cue to the bar, so I play off the wall and there are 3 or 4 cues that I prefer to use over the rest. I'm not a big fan of the newer, shiny/smooth cues.. I prefer something a bit beat up.
As for cues, I think it's more like any hobby. You don't buy a Fiesta if you're passionate about driving and have the means, you buy something you like driving. Same with cues, you buy what you can afford/rationalize and still feels good to you. By the time people reach a certain proficiency, they can usually justify an expenditure since they spend so much time playing. Therefor they are more comfortable with something "good". If one of those best players on the planet normally used a bar cue, I wouldn't want him switching to a Black Boar if I was betting on the match.
With that said, I really like looks of Black Boars and hope to get one some day. :thumbup:
It's not the chalk holder, it's the glove.
That match is not very recent, I think it's from late 80s.
Ok, PT, how about a twist.. the two best players on the planet, and one uses a BB and the other use the cue they currently own, lets say something like a Varner/Jacoby/Schon.... who you betting on now ??
And to be fair, the question was "the indian or the arrow" NOT two indians who shoot'em pool good
That's not what "it's the indian, not the arrow" is about.
That's like one indian has an arrow and the other has a sharpened stick.
Obviously cues need a bare minimum of quality.
Once they meet that bare minimum - It's the indian, not the arrow.
Ask your question more realistically:
If the two best players on the planet were playing, would you bet on the
guy with the Cuetech, or the one with a Black Boar?
The right answer is "I don't know".
Because both indians are adequately armed.
Ok, PT, how about a twist.. the two best players on the planet, and one uses a BB and the other use the cue they currently own, lets say something like a Varner/Jacoby/Schon.... who you betting on now ??
And to be fair, the question was "the indian or the arrow" NOT two indians who shoot'em pool good
Regardless of the question, to me it's the Indian AND the arrow.
And I would bet on the guy using his OWN cue.
A good cue for YOU is one that is user friendly...if spinning is a big deal
and requires too much adjustment, you're using the wrong cue.
And a good cue can be $50 sneaky pete....I've owned at least 10 expensive
cues that I hated.
Its also not what the entire thread was about.....but thanks for at least not bringing up racism, buffalo hunting, broomhandles, snooker, Efren or white people.
Exactly... that is why it's the indian... an old arrow will do the trick if you like it... because no cue plays better than another for someone... nobody buys a BB because they are gonna play better,,,they buy it because it's a functional piece of art that looks awesome and will most likely keep increasing in value for a long, long time.
Swear to god in HS I had a good buddy who swore he could SPLIT AN ARROW @ 100 yards! Whenever we all goaded him to show us he would reply " its against our culture to show off " lol. Never understood that one cause he was a hillbilly from West Viginia just like me and we LOVE to show off our shooting skills so not quite sure bout what " culture " he was referring lol. Its all good, still love him but still waiting to see that arrow split
I think Paul's point is that it both the players and the cues and sometime their relationship to the cue add merit to the consideration. Paul...you're as wise as always.
I guess the questions to ask is do you believe you can play better if you had a better cue? If you're with the thinking that all cues are the same than there's no point to this discussion.
"nobody buys a BB because they are gonna play better"...you would certainly hope so...dishing out 6K plus for one his basic new cue...you would have to think there are some psychological benefits...eg..instill fear into your opponents...or better yet instill confident in your game...knowing it's not the cue anymore but you're the one responsible for outcome of each shot. LOL..I hear guys complain and blame their cues all the time...me included.
Duc.
I guess the questions to ask is do you believe you can play better if you had a better cue?
If you're with the thinking that all cues are the same than there's no point to this discussion."nobody buys a BB because they are gonna play better"...you would certainly hope so...dishing out 6K plus for one his basic new cue...you would have to think there are some psychological benefits...eg..instill fear into your opponents...or better yet instill confident in your game...knowing it's not the cue anymore but you're the one responsible for outcome of each shot. LOL..I hear guys complain and blame their cues all the time...me included.
Duc.
And if someone plucks down $6K for a cue and thinks they are gonna play better after they retire a perfectly fine Schon, they are in for a very rude awakening.
I've been on Hercek's waiting list for a LONG time... I'm not getting it because I want to be a better pool player, cause it won't change my game, only I can do that.
Or the "bad" hitter on my son's baseball team, who's dad bought him what is considered one of the "best" bats in the game today, an Easton Mako, price $400. Dad did not think it was worth the money cause he see's no difference in his hitting. My son used it at a practice and hit 4 balls out of the park... the same number he would have hit with his own very good bat.....but the kids' dad now realizes the bat is NOT defective, his kid is
And I guarantee you there is a LOT more science and engineering involved in developing a metal baseball bat than a pool cue. The difference in performance between a $400 bat and a $40 bat is night and day. The difference in performance between a $4000 cue and a $400 cue is neglible at best, if any.
The sooner folks start breaking bad habits, develop very good mechanics, practice more, and learn how to focus properly, not to mention learning Angle, Spin and Speed, is the only way they will see noticeable improvement..... not exactly want folks want to hear, but there is no way around it, if it were easy, everyone would be a great player
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