That is one fine word. I had to google it for it's actually meaning, but I feel much smarter. Hopefully, I can pronounce correctly.
entry fees+added money-TD fee-greens fee=really?
- Thread starter cleary
- Start date
That is one fine word. I had to google it for it's actually meaning, but I feel much smarter. Hopefully, I can pronounce correctly.
I'll take a stab at this..........
It has become almost a necessity for a tournament to attract a large target audience, they must always have a "hook". (Carrot and stick.) The added money is the carrot and the "FEES" are the stick.
Players want added money for pool events. They have come to expect it and the tournament promoters know this.
In past years green fees weren't as common as they are now but most people have been convinced that the green fees help the pool room owner to cover the loss of his table time that he would normally get if he weren't having a pool tournament.
Some tournaments that don't have green fees because the tables are coin operated and the pool promoter gets that money in lieu of the green fees.
Bangers know that they are most likely going to go two and out and the coin thing is attractive to them but the $20 green fee isn't so bad as far as they are concerned especially on a two day tournament.
The good players expect to be playing a while so they prefer a flat fee for the event so they like the idea of a green fee.
No one particularly likes digging for coins or running back and forth to obtain coins for the tables so overall the green fee is preferable with most people.
And here's where the rubber meets the road: It is more attractive to read $2000 added and fees are ......, than it is to read $200 added and no fees. Pool promoters get that and are all over this, wringing their hands with appropriate delight.
JoeyA
I'm about to host my 3rd and 4th tournament this month, and at least once at each of my previous tournaments, I get asked about added money. When someone saw my flier: "what kind of tables will be played on?" "Three valleys." *gives me weird look*
Never mind that I'm the only person in the area organizing regular monthly tournaments. Never mind that I'm doing them at the only location in the area with more than 2 tables of the same size. I get complaints about the dates I'm having them on. I got complaints about not having one in December to take time off for the holidays.
Basically, I put up with complaints, for something I do purely for the love of the game. No fees collected. If anything, I've spent more money for my tourneys than I can hope to make back if I start collecting registration fees.
So, sorry to derail your thread,Cleary. What they're doing May not be upstanding, but some thing's you gotta do to get the in general nitty pool players in.
Never mind that I'm the only person in the area organizing regular monthly tournaments. Never mind that I'm doing them at the only location in the area with more than 2 tables of the same size. I get complaints about the dates I'm having them on. I got complaints about not having one in December to take time off for the holidays.
Basically, I put up with complaints, for something I do purely for the love of the game. No fees collected. If anything, I've spent more money for my tourneys than I can hope to make back if I start collecting registration fees.
So, sorry to derail your thread,Cleary. What they're doing May not be upstanding, but some thing's you gotta do to get the in general nitty pool players in.
The Fliers should usually tell you.
If it says Entry fee is $40 and $1,000 added and its on bar tables, then the whole $40 and the $1k go in, if paying quarters
If its on 9 fts, I'd assume it says something like $40 entry(includes $5 or $10 Green Fee) and $1k added. In this equation 5 or 10 of each 40 would come out for table time.
The 1k becomes more of a write off type thing. The green fees go as a daily profit towards the tables as they would get without the tourney.
If it says Entry fee is $40 and $1,000 added and its on bar tables, then the whole $40 and the $1k go in, if paying quarters
If its on 9 fts, I'd assume it says something like $40 entry(includes $5 or $10 Green Fee) and $1k added. In this equation 5 or 10 of each 40 would come out for table time.
The 1k becomes more of a write off type thing. The green fees go as a daily profit towards the tables as they would get without the tourney.
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The smart room owners are covering the Added $$$ via sponsors, raffles, etc... That way it is not out of pocket. So any greens fees collected are in fact income to the room.
Those who chose to donate are hedging the Added $$$ with the greens fees to create a smaller loss for the room.
So am I and that's one reason I don't play in that many tournaments. It takes so much of your time and you know inside that you can't win anyway! There's a handful of players where I live that are just better than the rest of us and if they are in the tournament one of that handful of players will win everytime. It usually boils down to them battling each other at the end.
I should be strong as a horse.
Yes, what you say is true about who comes out on top at the end.
That being said, it is not only about winning, it is also about competing and testing yourself, to see how well you can hold up and if by chance, skill and luck you knock off a hog or two; well that's just lagniappe.
I have played in many tournaments, local, regional and national, more often than not, against much better players than myself. It is fun to compete against much better players and if you get "lucky" and beat one of them but still show them some respect, they will show you some in return, then and in the future.
Pool is entertainment, at least for me. It's my hobby and yes I am an amateur who struggles in every tournament that I play in, whether it is against lesser players or greater players. It is really just a struggle against myself. I try to give it my best effort and gauge my success based upon the quality of my preparation and effort, not necessarily the results. I've had bangers beat me in short races, just as I have done better players in short races. I've met a lot of people over the years playing in tournaments where I had no chance to win or even cash who have become good friends who continue to share the journey with me.
It's a learning experience and a pleasant journey for me in spite of the bruises I pick up along the way. What don't kill you, will only make you stronger.
My most expensive habit is playing pool in tournaments around the country and I pick up a few dollars teaching pool, gambling and playing in tournaments so it kind of helps pay for some of the tournaments. For the majority of the money I spend, it is just my discretionary funds. YOLO.
Each to his own, but don't become short-sighted by why we play pool, enjoy all aspects of it and get the most out of the sport.
JoeyA
Yes, what you say is true about who comes out on top at the end.
That being said, it is not only about winning, it is also about competing and testing yourself, to see how well you can hold up and if by chance, skill and luck you knock off a hog or two; well that's just lagniappe.
I have played in many tournaments, local, regional and national, more often than not, against much better players than myself. It is fun to compete against much better players and if you get "lucky" and beat one of them but still show them some respect, they will show you some in return, then and in the future.
Pool is entertainment, at least for me. It's my hobby and yes I am an amateur who struggles in every tournament that I play in, whether it is against lesser players or greater players. It is really just a struggle against myself. I try to give it my best effort and gauge my success based upon the quality of my preparation and effort, not necessarily the results. I've had bangers beat me in short races, just as I have done better players in short races. I've met a lot of people over the years playing in tournaments where I had no chance to win or even cash who have become good friends who continue to share the journey with me.
It's a learning experience and a pleasant journey for me in spite of the bruises I pick up along the way. What don't kill you, will only make you stronger.
My most expensive habit is playing pool in tournaments around the country and I pick up a few dollars teaching pool, gambling and playing in tournaments so it kind of helps pay for some of the tournaments. For the majority of the money I spend, it is just my discretionary funds. YOLO.
Each to his own, but don't become short-sighted by why we play pool, enjoy all aspects of it and get the most out of the sport.
JoeyA
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I agree.
I agree. Some posting here are not using logic.
An owner can't afford to give free table time for a whole day or whole weekend. He/she would likely be losing money.
If he/she wants to add money to the prize list, good for them.
I once ran a tournament for an owner who added $1,000 to the prize fund. It was advertised on the poster as guaranteed. On the day of the event, he decided to renege on the promise. When I told the players, and vowed to expose his actions to others, he fired me as house pro/league & tournament director...
I agree. Some posting here are not using logic.
An owner can't afford to give free table time for a whole day or whole weekend. He/she would likely be losing money.
If he/she wants to add money to the prize list, good for them.
I once ran a tournament for an owner who added $1,000 to the prize fund. It was advertised on the poster as guaranteed. On the day of the event, he decided to renege on the promise. When I told the players, and vowed to expose his actions to others, he fired me as house pro/league & tournament director...
Discussed this stuff this weekend and I had some (not so popular) opinions.
Pool players are way too invested in scrutinizing the money in events
and 'doing the math' to make sure it's fair. They are too concerned with Other People's Money.
For most people, tournament play is simply an expensive day of entertainment.
If you're lucky + good, the day out doesn't cost you much.
In a recent event we had basically 10 guys who had a shot to win it
(maybe 5 pros and some strong AA players)
The other 50 guys in the field are there to test themselves against those 10.
They're hoping to be able to say "I'm a state champion". They are NOT there to earn rent money.
They are spending money for an 'experience'.
If you're playing for the experience, you just assume your entry fee is gone,
They can't (or shouldn't) count on cashing for the trip to be enjoyable.
If going 2-and-out would make the trip not worth and unenjoyable, don't go,
because that can happen to anyone... even those top 10. I think that happened to Larry Nevel
in the recent East Coast 9b, and he was one of the top picks in the calcutta.
All you really need to know is that your entry fee is buying an experience you enjoy.
That you're getting tested against better players. Or if you enjoy winning more than testing yourself,
maybe you want to know that you won't have to face TOO many champions on the way
to that trophy you want, and you have a decent chance to make the weekend cost nothing.
So you need to know the entry fee. You need to know prize money.
And maybe, you want to know how many people are in there, so you can ensure you get
enough bang for your buck.
It shouldn't be to do the math and say: "OK, 64 players x 100 bucks = 6400, minus this, minus that,
OMG the guy running the tournament is keeping 40% of the money! F****ing thief!"
Who cares? You're paying for an experience. If it's going to provide the experience you want
for a number of dollars you're willing to pay, stop getting agitated about other people's money.
If you TRULY feel the guy running it is dishonest and is robbing people, and you're therefore morally opposed
to giving him your money, then don't go. But bear in mind that running events is a chore, these guys
running local tours usually need a day job to support themselves, and they're mostly there for love of the game.
I highly doubt any of them are using pool tournaments as a sort of raffle scam to sucker people into buying
$5,000 of tickets for a $1,000 prize.
Pool players are way too invested in scrutinizing the money in events
and 'doing the math' to make sure it's fair. They are too concerned with Other People's Money.
For most people, tournament play is simply an expensive day of entertainment.
If you're lucky + good, the day out doesn't cost you much.
In a recent event we had basically 10 guys who had a shot to win it
(maybe 5 pros and some strong AA players)
The other 50 guys in the field are there to test themselves against those 10.
They're hoping to be able to say "I'm a state champion". They are NOT there to earn rent money.
They are spending money for an 'experience'.
If you're playing for the experience, you just assume your entry fee is gone,
They can't (or shouldn't) count on cashing for the trip to be enjoyable.
If going 2-and-out would make the trip not worth and unenjoyable, don't go,
because that can happen to anyone... even those top 10. I think that happened to Larry Nevel
in the recent East Coast 9b, and he was one of the top picks in the calcutta.
All you really need to know is that your entry fee is buying an experience you enjoy.
That you're getting tested against better players. Or if you enjoy winning more than testing yourself,
maybe you want to know that you won't have to face TOO many champions on the way
to that trophy you want, and you have a decent chance to make the weekend cost nothing.
So you need to know the entry fee. You need to know prize money.
And maybe, you want to know how many people are in there, so you can ensure you get
enough bang for your buck.
It shouldn't be to do the math and say: "OK, 64 players x 100 bucks = 6400, minus this, minus that,
OMG the guy running the tournament is keeping 40% of the money! F****ing thief!"
Who cares? You're paying for an experience. If it's going to provide the experience you want
for a number of dollars you're willing to pay, stop getting agitated about other people's money.
If you TRULY feel the guy running it is dishonest and is robbing people, and you're therefore morally opposed
to giving him your money, then don't go. But bear in mind that running events is a chore, these guys
running local tours usually need a day job to support themselves, and they're mostly there for love of the game.
I highly doubt any of them are using pool tournaments as a sort of raffle scam to sucker people into buying
$5,000 of tickets for a $1,000 prize.
Well, in this case, these tournaments are handicapped and anyone can win them. Nobody there is playing for rent money, but they don't play for experience either. I've had some high finishes and it sure is nice getting paid decent money for playing pool on a weekend, but if the money doesn't add up, it makes you wonder where the money went. I like to gamble and I also don't pay "rent" playing $100/sets but if someone doesn't pay me everything I beat them for, I'm not gonna be happy about it.
takeitdown
Banned
Tournament fees
No way should a guy who makes 10 bucks an hour at his day job take $200plus a day running a tournament. Many TDs are taking 20% or more, plus they often get paid entry into their event by the house.
Either the rooms run the boards or a group of regular locals get together to run it as a group . 3 regulars coukd do this. Drawing a board takes 5 minutes, put payouts in envelopes in register and play ball.
No way should a guy who makes 10 bucks an hour at his day job take $200plus a day running a tournament. Many TDs are taking 20% or more, plus they often get paid entry into their event by the house.
Either the rooms run the boards or a group of regular locals get together to run it as a group . 3 regulars coukd do this. Drawing a board takes 5 minutes, put payouts in envelopes in register and play ball.
How does a person's day job have any relevance to this discussion?
Absolutely JJ... Which rule set, who referees, problem resolution (DQ process). Heck even the nightly members tourneys I've run can be a pain... Phone registration, scheduling, byes...
Do it for awhile, then see how easy it is to find volunteers to do it... Everyone wants to play, no one wants to be responsible... Oh almost forgot... Don't forget your quarters or table time
Joe
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Do it for awhile, then see how easy it is to find volunteers to do it... Everyone wants to play, no one wants to be responsible... Oh almost forgot... Don't forget your quarters or table time
Joe
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Those of us who run tournaments fly our private planes that we bought with green fees and meet up every few months on a private carribbean island that we bought with held-back added money....
thought you guys would never figure it out...
And the yacht you're sailing on was purchased with money stolen from the chalk fund.
BTW, next time I call you at midnight to complain about a tournament's date/time, try to be a little more courteous. After all, I'm taking the time to call you.
I would agree that playing games with the math is shameful and lame.
Having said that, all I care about is how much I must pay for entry, and how much I can win. Whatever happens behind the scenes justifying fees and payouts is not of great concern to me.
I've seen similar things on eBay where two guys will sell an item for:
1) Same Item $1 + shipping $7 = $8 total cost
2) Same Item $10 + shipping $3 = $13 total cost
For me it's a no-brainer to buy it from person #1 and pay $8. A lot of people will ***** and complain that the shipping cost is $7 versus $3 from the other guy, even though the competition's total overall cost is much higher at $13.
Or some people might complain if someone asks for 4% for Paypal fees. Again, I could care less if the total overall cost is a bargain.
So for tournaments, I make a judgment call based on the ratio of entrance fee versus potential payouts. I don't especially care how those numbers are calculated.
Having said that, all I care about is how much I must pay for entry, and how much I can win. Whatever happens behind the scenes justifying fees and payouts is not of great concern to me.
I've seen similar things on eBay where two guys will sell an item for:
1) Same Item $1 + shipping $7 = $8 total cost
2) Same Item $10 + shipping $3 = $13 total cost
For me it's a no-brainer to buy it from person #1 and pay $8. A lot of people will ***** and complain that the shipping cost is $7 versus $3 from the other guy, even though the competition's total overall cost is much higher at $13.
Or some people might complain if someone asks for 4% for Paypal fees. Again, I could care less if the total overall cost is a bargain.
So for tournaments, I make a judgment call based on the ratio of entrance fee versus potential payouts. I don't especially care how those numbers are calculated.
o iy ainy yhay simple and most owners/promoters don't want the job becuae they cannot see 3 feet past the bar and know nothing about pool or tournaments. The do not have no thought of promoting. All they do is ***** and go no about pool players and the money they cost them. They are rarely, rarely invovedin any way at alll and that is a good thing,
Yes... obviously.
Next time you go to dinner and your bill is way more than you expect, don't bother asking for an itemized bill... just pay it, the waiters need to get to their private jets.