ESPN - Does IPT Belong??

ScottR

ScottR

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just finished watching a ONE FRIGGIN' HOUR broadcast of, now get this, a bratwurst eating contest. Yep. One hour for a ten minute gluttony exhibition. Seems fair, huh?

Cut me some slack, because I thought I was tuning in to the WSOP. I saw this kay-rap and, like an ugly car wreck, couldn't turn away. I'm sick, I know. :o

They did background stories on the eaters. They had controversy, rivalries, males, females, different styles/approaches, interviews with the contestants and "equipment" (i.e. the brat makers!! :eek: ) manufacturers. It just didn't stop!

A 5'-7" Asian guy, who weighs all of 187 pounds, just destroyed the "competition". I'm telling you, THIS IS NOT SPORT!!

It's been discussed before. But, now with the IPT in full steam, is pool going to break through into the mainstream? What is holding it back?

Who is the marketer who got "competitive eating" on ESPN??
 
What is holding it back?
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Same thing that has held it back for years..... public opinion about pool being a sleazy con man/gamblers game that breeds crime etc around the local pool halls/town. We talk with great admiration of the old time hustlers and gamblers who were adding to this image without even knowing it or probably caring about it. They helped drag pool to where it is today in the publics eyes.
Then you take a few poorly ran pool halls that did/do have a bad element running around them...... and there you go. Bad public image.
The game is not what has the bad image.... its all the stuff surrounding it. Any bad thing that does happen gets passed around the rumor mill and blown out of proportion.
If there was a way to erase the bad image, pool would skyrocket. Its a fun challenging game that tests physical skill, creativity and logic.... that is how it should be sold, not the 'every champion, player and HUSTLER is coming out from under a rock' to try and win Kevin Trudeaus ill gotten prize money. Hustler in public speak means con man/thief.
A good place to start would be organizing an actual league/organization with actual sponsers that have deep pockets (billiard equipment manufactures dont have that kind of dough) you need Budweiser etc. That would help with air time on sports networks. The extra advertisement time bought by Bud, or Miller etc. is leverage for airtime. (look at the WSOP and Miller beer, poker started to catch on, Miller started sponsering it, ESPN etc wanted to run it every hour on the hour because Miller was buying tons of commercial time for their Mill Best Lite spots) Television channels dont run on the premise of what people want to see.... they run on advertising income. Get the big money that wants advertising time on tv behind a new tour/organization and you would have something sellable to the tv folks.
Anyway, enough rambling. Just my 2 cents.
Chuck
 
ScottR said:
A 5'-7" Asian guy, who weighs all of 187 pounds, just destroyed the "competition". I'm telling you, THIS IS NOT SPORT!!

It's been discussed before. But, now with the IPT in full steam, is pool going to break through into the mainstream? What is holding it back?

Who is the marketer who got "competitive eating" on ESPN??
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Actually it is sport. And it is competitive. As for pool, I'd love to see more of it on tv, but in all honesty I haven't a decent production yet. The IPT thing with Sigel and the other two guys was terrible. I'm glad it was on, but the production sucked. Those 3 guys kept getting in each other's way. There was no discipline. When you put 3 people together in a booth each of them should have an assigned purpose. It was horrible. The best I've seen yet, which aint saying much, is the world championship crew with the English sounding guy. Their production is sort of barren and stark, not too glitzy, but preferable, at least to me, over the bullshit of the ITP and the crap on ESPN with the women players coming out of a cloud of smoke and the Michael Buffer type guy saying let's get ready to rumble. Horrible. I could jump into any of those productions with no rehearsal and do a better job than any of them - by far. But I don't want to talk about myself at this time. I have all day to do that.

Tommy Joe
 
Many nails were hit in the previous two posts.

Is it all about the short term money? How much can we milk out of the latest cow?

Where are the Arnold Palmers, the Ozzie Smiths, the Robin Younts??? People that just love to play the game and aren't looking to "score" off of everyone else.

It took Charlie Sifford, Jack Nicklaus and Lee Trevino to make Tiger Wood's world.
 
It may be a competition but not all competitions are sports.

In my opinion things like that being on ESPN is ridiculous. They belong on MTV or America's Stupidiest People.

Pool's image probably is a big issue. When I lived in NY you had two types of pool halls, ones that were real nice places and run well and others that were fronts for gambling, prostitution and the mafia/gangs.

The prices of pool in the bigger cities doesn't help either. I'm sure it has to do with the rents but weekend rates were reaching $12-$15/hr in the nicer places wen I left NY, something not many can afford enough to make it a real true interest and hobby.

For something to be really popular it has to be enjoyable by everyone. Even Nascar. while not affordable for everyone to do, most everyone does drive so they can relate to it.
 
Im not sure the rates of as much to do with the problems with pool. It sucks for serious players who want to play from noon to midnight, but most people come in with another person or a group. $12-15 divied up between even two people is $6-7.50 an hour, which isn't bad considering they probably won't play for more than an hour or two.

I think the industry is as much to blame as anybody for the problems in pool. By the numbers, pool should be very popular. It is no slower than golf, and more people play pool than any other sport (I think I heard that anyways).

The first problem is 9 ball. The arguement in favor of the game is that it is quick and easy to understand. True. However remember the 15 second attention span of north americans, some one tunes in, sees a game that doesn't come close to resembling what they know and says "wtf, this isn't pool". I know people who have done this.

The IPT has it right with 8 ball. Ok maybe it is easier. Maybe the rules are a little more complicated. But it resembles what people know, which is important. It has that instantly recognizable characteristic to it, which is needed to draw in the casual viewer.

Pool programs fail to promote personalities. Anything can be interesting if the viewer cares about the people playing. Take the show Survivor for example, they make puzzle solving exciting. Mainly because the audience has people that they are rooting for.

I think pool would do well to broadcast their programs like golf tournaments. Move from table to table watching a rack or two, and airing the full match in the finals. Of course as a fan of the game I would like to see a match from start to finish, but I think it would be more exciting for the average person to watch the other format.
 
Everyone contributed some interesting and valid points, but to get back to the thread question "Does the IPT belong on ESPN?".
In my opinion, hotdog eating and dominos are not real sports and belong in the kitchen and livingroom and not on ESPN. And although I do not have a great opinion of the IPT's business model, it's presentation and production of televised pool, it certainly belongs on ESPN as much as bowling and much more than amateur cheerleading.
I don't know for sure, but I believe that the IPT is paying for OLN airtime, and judging by the lack of advance advertising sales, OLN made the correct business decision. I would also imagine that ESPN required much more for their airtime and the IPT was not willing to pay their price.
While the IPT deserves an "A" for effort, two major problems with the IPT's television presence is their hokey production model and the fact that the airing of the tournaments take place well after the actual tournament, so with everyone knowing the outcomes there is absolutely no drama by the time it is televised.
Also, IF they really are attempting to market to mainstream America and not just the already pool junkies, then they are way off base and out of touch with mainstream America. JMHO
 
I know that Barry Behrman tried to get espn to come and do the 25 anniversay of the U S OPEN and they said ok. But,,,when the truck pulls up out back please have a cashiers check for something like $40,000.00 to do it. Unfortunately Barry had to pass on it. Imagine 40 large to come tape the show. and the 40k if i remember was to do just that. tape it so it could be played at a later date.....wonder what it would cost if you wanted to do it live??????....ouch.................mike
 
jimmyg said:
Everyone contributed some interesting and valid points...JMHO
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I agree, every post I've seen has merit. Seems everyone agrees that billiards is not a popular tv sport. Some of the reasons have been addressed. There can be more than one reason.

It's true, as one guy said, a large number of people play pool recreationally. Bowling is popular too. Not many people box recreationally, yet boxing is a popular viewing sport. So, what's popular for playing is not always popular for viewing. Of course there are reasons for this. One could be that billiards played at it's best is made to look easy. Trading punches never looks easy. Pool is an affecianado sport. It's a popular sport for recreation, but I doubt it will ever be popular on tv, no matter how hard they try. But once again, I could be wrong. As always, I could be wrong. Let's hope so.

Tommy Joe
 
cueball1950 said:
I know that Barry Behrman tried to get espn to come and do the 25 anniversay of the U S OPEN and they said ok. But,,,when the truck pulls up out back please have a cashiers check for something like $40,000.00 to do it. Unfortunately Barry had to pass on it. Imagine 40 large to come tape the show. and the 40k if i remember was to do just that. tape it so it could be played at a later date.....wonder what it would cost if you wanted to do it live??????....ouch.................mike
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The business side of this intrigues me. Everybody in the deal is gambling. When the tv people buy your tape they're hoping just as much as you that it sells.

There is not enough public interest to justify regularly televised billiards. Imagine the following scenario: A crowd around the table watching two good players go at it for the cash. Suddenly someone says, "Hey everybody, Efren and Sigel are on tv!" Do you think the crowd is going to suddenly stop watching the game to turn on the tv? I don't think.
But as always I could be wrong.

Tommy Joe
 
Lest we all forget what ESPN stands for: Entertainment AND Sports Programming Network
 
Well I think we have to be patient with what espn it and it will come believe me. I play paintball and espn is going to start broadcasting more and this wasgreat for the sport. The best thing we can do is everyone goto espn.com and email your response to haveing pool on espn kind of like a petition believe if the public is telling them they are enjoying the progrom it will make a difference. It worked for paintball. So should goto espn and tell espn you love when they show pool on tv.
 
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