Europeans and the DCC All-Around

[jsp]

Any theories as to why a European has not come close to winning the DCC All-Around?

Another way of asking the question above is why Europeans aren't competitive in the banks and one pocket tournaments. You would think that champions such as Souquet, Hohmann, Immonen, Feijen, and Van den Berg would have solved at least one of these games by now, but I don't recall seeing any of them go deep in the banks/one pocket tournaments. Appleton seems to be the exception this year, with a top-10 finish at banks so far.

This is the 16th year of DCC's existence, so can one really blame lack of exposure to banks and one pocket for the dearth of European success at these games? Wang Can from China went as deep as Appleton in the banks, and I doubt he's had a fifth (conservatively) of the experience playing banks as the top Europeans who are regulars at DCC.

To me it just seems like a statistical anomaly that not a single European has threatened the Master of the Table title, and that there really is no big rhyme or reason as to why it has been so. Appleton, which his top-10 finish in banks this year, may be the first European to finally enter the conversation.

 

[MOJOE]

Appleton, Shaw and Feijen went quite deep in the banks division. Getting to the 8th and 9th round are no easy tasks by far. As far as threatening the all around, I'd say Appleton would be the best that I can think of all all 3 disciplines. YMMV

 

[jsp]

With the one pocket tourney down to its last three, it's safe to say that a European won't be winning the All-Around this year. I believe it is guaranteed that Orcullo and Bustamante will finish ahead of of any European in the All-Around standings, regardless of what happens in the 9-ball event.

There may be a chance that Appleton, Shaw, or Van den Berg can finish in the top three if one of them wins the 9-ball event.

 

[Johnnyt]

With the one pocket tourney down to its last three, it's safe to say that a European won't be winning the All-Around this year. I believe it is guaranteed that Orcullo and Bustamante will finish ahead of of any European in the All-Around standings, regardless of what happens in the 9-ball event.

There may be a chance that Appleton, Shaw, or Van den Berg can finish in the top three if one of them wins the 9-ball event.

Doesn't Master of the Table include Bigfoot? Johnnyt

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Any theories as to why a European has not come close to winning the DCC All-Around?

Another way of asking the question above is why Europeans aren't competitive in the banks and one pocket tournaments. You would think that champions such as Souquet, Hohmann, Immonen, Feijen, and Van den Berg would have solved at least one of these games by now, but I don't recall seeing any of them go deep in the banks/one pocket tournaments. Appleton seems to be the exception this year, with a top-10 finish at banks so far.

This is the 16th year of DCC's existence, so can one really blame lack of exposure to banks and one pocket for the dearth of European success at these games? Wang Can from China went as deep as Appleton in the banks, and I doubt he's had a fifth (conservatively) of the experience playing banks as the top Europeans who are regulars at DCC.

To me it just seems like a statistical anomaly that not a single European has threatened the Master of the Table title, and that there really is no big rhyme or reason as to why it has been so. Appleton, which his top-10 finish in banks this year, may be the first European to finally enter the conversation.

It's an interesting question given their overall success in so many other pool events. Just shooting from the hip here but I think it's a little unusual to see a pool player that's truly expert-level at 9ball AND 1hole and oftentimes, these instances are guys that gamble a lot.

In my opinion (and I know nothing about 1hole), in order to be great at 1hole, you have to gamble at it. There's this upper tier of defense that you really only acquire when you're fighting for every ball. I think the players that are born out of gambling cultures are simply going to have an edge over the players born out of tournament cultures at The Derby.

 

[Straightpool_99]

..............

 

[jsp]

Why should anyone be suprised? Banks and one pocket are hardly played in Europe at all that I am aware of.

I believe they hardly play them in the Philippines as well. True, you can argue that Efren, Francisco, and Alex, who are the usual pinoy suspects when it comes to competing for the All-Around, have been gambling in the states for well over a decade.

But look at Orcullo? He first came here in 2006, well after many of the top European players. He had been a non-factor for the All-Around his first few years. But this year, he won the banks and went very deep in the one-pocket. So far he has the best chance to win Master of the Table this year.

Considering what's happening to Orcullo this year, why couldn't that have already happened to a Souquet, or a Hohmann, or an Immonen? All things being equal, it seems like a statistical anomaly. But I think there is an underlying explanation. And I think Jude is definitely on to something when he mentions gambling in one pocket.

 

[JumpinJoe]

Why should anyone be suprised? Banks and one pocket are hardly played in Europe at all that I am aware of. I know of a handful of people in my country who play one pocket occationally, thats it. Bank pool? Never heard of anyone playing that in Europe, though it is possible that some play it.The same is true for many other European countries. More importantly there are no tournaments in these diciplines that I know of. While some may practise these games specifically for DCC that may not be enough. One needs to play pool games for some time before one can develop a feel for the game. The possible payoff may not justify the time taken away for 10/9 ball practise for most pros. If they made their living gambling in the US it might be a different story.

These games are rarely played in the Philippines also. But they seem to adapt quite well as all around monsters.

 

[JumpinJoe]

The euros can only play tourney format races, and rotation games only. They DO NOT gamble, except for STEVE KNIGHT before, therefore play no other games but snooooooker.

I've been saying it for years, they are 1 trick ponies.
All of them

 

[NYC cue dude]

I believe they hardly play them in the Philippines as well. True, you can argue that Efren, Francisco, and Alex, who are the usual pinoy suspects when it comes to competing for the All-Around, have been gambling in the states for well over a decade.

But look at Orcullo? He first came here in 2006, well after many of the top European players. He had been a non-factor for the All-Around his first few years. But this year, he won the banks and went very deep in the one-pocket. So far he has the best chance to win Master of the Table this year.

Considering what's happening to Orcullo this year, why couldn't that have already happened to a Souquet, or a Hohmann, or an Immonen? All things being equal, it seems like a statistical anomaly. But I think there is an underlying explanation. And I think Jude is definitely on to something when he mentions gambling in one pocket.

Hohmann plays banks and 1 pkt exactly once a year (yes, this year he played an all around exhibition match with Brandon Shuff after the US open). Don't look for him to dedicate any significant time towards either of these games, any time soon. If it wasn't for the straight pool challenge and 9 ball, he wouldn't even be attending the DCC.

 

[itsfroze]

Odd that even though Thorsten has dedicated all his time to Straight Pool and 9-Ball
That he still hasn't finished in the top three in the Derby City 9-Ball in 15 years.

I would think that the coveted Master of the table award and the 20k prize would
make someone at least think about practicing Banks and 1 Pkt.

The pinoy's seem to do well as other people have also stated.

 

[naji]

Any theories as to why a European has not come close to winning the DCC All-Around?

Another way of asking the question above is why Europeans aren't competitive in the banks and one pocket tournaments. You would think that champions such as Souquet, Hohmann, Immonen, Feijen, and Van den Berg would have solved at least one of these games by now, but I don't recall seeing any of them go deep in the banks/one pocket tournaments. Appleton seems to be the exception this year, with a top-10 finish at banks so far.

This is the 16th year of DCC's existence, so can one really blame lack of exposure to banks and one pocket for the dearth of European success at these games? Wang Can from China went as deep as Appleton in the banks, and I doubt he's had a fifth (conservatively) of the experience playing banks as the top Europeans who are regulars at DCC.

To me it just seems like a statistical anomaly that not a single European has threatened the Master of the Table title, and that there really is no big rhyme or reason as to why it has been so. Appleton, which his top-10 finish in banks this year, may be the first European to finally enter the conversation.

I heard from a friend of mine who lives in London that pool halls always have waiting list to get to play and expensive, which could be the reason for Brits not playing long games like one pocket, but again, remember it is race to 3 so any pro could win it, Efren excluded of course

 

[JumpinJoe]

I heard from a friend of mine who lives in London that pool halls always have waiting list to get to play and expensive, which could be the reason for Brits not playing long games like one pocket, but again, remember it is race to 3 so any pro could win it, Efren excluded of course

That's no excuse.

The top players are not paying pool time to play.

They should never be able to be ranked even remotely close to the top if they can't play anything other then 9//10 ball

Hence, One Trick Ponies

 

[naji]

That's no excuse.

The top players are not paying pool time to play.

They should never be able to be ranked even remotely close to the top if they can't play anything other then 9//10 ball

Hence, One Trick Ponies

Ok i somewhat agree, they maybe good in pocketing balls and position, kicks, but one pocket and banks requires experience especially in strategy, with most Europeans just been around say 3- 6 years not enough if they do not play the game all the time.

 

[jsp]

The euros can only play tourney format races, and rotation games only.

Rotation games only? If DCC were to substitute straight pool and 8-ball in place of banks and one pocket, then my guess is that you'll see more Europeans than Americans win the All-Around title, or at least it'll be very even.

 

[JumpinJoe]

Rotation games only? If DCC were to substitute straight pool and 8-ball in place of banks and one pocket, then my guess is that you'll see more Europeans than Americans win the All-Around title, or at least it'll be very even.

8 ball is same category to me as 9/10 ball. Run out games. Strategy on an amateur level, not so much on the. Pro level.
I've watched a lot of pros play bad bad 8 ball, but it don't matter, they just run out anyhow. With patterns that make you puke.

Now on an amateur level, it's huge, patterns mean everything.
I took a kid on my team to the BCA 2 years ago, great bar table 9 ball player. He wins the 9 ball singles in a cake walk. Then in the open 8 ball singles he was as clueless as they came, went no where, and was the worse player on our team.

But derby is never putting 8 ball or straight pool in. It's made for action, not tourneys. Onepocket and banks are action games. You don't see many people there matching up playing 8 ball or straight pool do you?

 

[itsfroze]

Rotation games only? If DCC were to substitute straight pool and 8-ball in place of banks and one pocket, then my guess is that you'll see more Europeans than Americans win the All-Around title, or at least it'll be very even.

So am I understanding you correctly? You're saying the DCC should change their format to include games better suited for the Europeans.

Rather than they should practice to become better at the games already played
as the main events at DCC?

 

[jsp]

So am I understanding you correctly? You're saying the DCC should change their format to include games better suited for the Europeans.

No, you're not understanding me correctly.

I never said the DCC should do anything. I was just responding to the comment that Europeans were only good at "rotation games only", which is false.

 

[bender_lu]

one pocket action game?.... most boring discipline ive ever watched :grin:

straight pool is the best all around game imho... too bad there are not more tournaments for it

 

[jsp]

Bump.

Considering Shaw's runner-up finish in banks, is this finally the year that a European takes the All-Around title (or at least comes close)?

It still baffles my mind how a champion like Souquet can continue to have such unimpressive results in the banks (out in round 3) and one-pocket divisions (out in round 4) after all these years.