Exercise = a better player?

Celtic

Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
What do you guys feel on this matter. In most sports being physically fit improves your ability to perform, in pool it is not so sure. We have the thin in shape guys like Archer, Duell, Strickland, but we also have the Daulton, Miz, and other guys in less then peak shape that reguardless play some top level pool.

I remember reading a story about Hoppe jogging one day before a match and passing a opponent he had to play that day without even batting a eye at him. The story may be embelished, but the fact he actually jogged and stayed in shape makes one wonder if it really helped. Supposedly alot of players back in those days kept themselves in great shape and it was generally accepted that it helped in their performance at the table.

So, what are your thoughts? Does exercize help one perform better in cue sports? If so it would be a largely taken for granted aspect for many players even at the top ranks.
 
Celtic said:
What do you guys feel on this matter. In most sports being physically fit improves your ability to perform, in pool it is not so sure. We have the thin in shape guys like Archer, Duell, Strickland, but we also have the Daulton, Miz, and other guys in less then peak shape that reguardless play some top level pool.

I remember reading a story about Hoppe jogging one day before a match and passing a opponent he had to play that day without even batting a eye at him. The story may be embelished, but the fact he actually jogged and stayed in shape makes one wonder if it really helped. Supposedly alot of players back in those days kept themselves in great shape and it was generally accepted that it helped in their performance at the table.

So, what are your thoughts? Does exercize help one perform better in cue sports? If so it would be a largely taken for granted aspect for many players even at the top ranks.
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Well, right now, I'm watching the New York City marathon on TV, and for that event, you need to be in shape, unless you're OK with arriving at the finish line after sunset.

Contrastingly, pool is not really about physical stamina, and many an obese player is able to play a very, very long session without breaks. The pace of the game is slow, and you get to do plenty of sitting down along the way no matter what your game of choice is. You can take a bathroom break when you need one. Still, being in shape gives you a little edge, helping you to regulate your breathing, which in turn, helps you to manage in-match stress. Those that are extremely out of shape will defintiely have a hurdle to overcome, but those a little out of shape (meaning most players) may have no disadvantage to speak of.

Pool is far more about mental stamina, and that is because pool, like chess, is a game of continuous decision making. We've all known mental fatigue at the table. We know how mental weariness reduces the quality of the decisions we make, and how this can drag down our game. What all great players have in common is great mental stamina, sometimes casually referred to as the "ability to grind" over a long session.
 
Being in shape

It would seem logical that any contest between two opponents would be won by the one in the best physical condition-- all other things being equal. Side benefits may include longer life, higher quality of life, and getting to spend money won on whatever you want rather than giving it to the medical profession.
 
How about exercise just to look better, feel better, and stay healthy?
If more people did it, pool players or not, there wouldn't be a worldwide epidemic of obesity or just plain overweight. I've read where Earl jogs; Corey and Mika go to the gym regularly; need we mention Jennifer Barretta and Ewa who is now going to the gym.
 
I cant help but think it has to help, but to what extent it is hard to tell. As you mentioned, players that are just a little out of shape may not see that big of a difference, and for top players it may be real hard to see a difference.

An example would be the Miz, here is a guy that is probably one of the best straight pool players to have played the game IMHO, but could he have played better if he hadnt put on the weight? The first thing that comes to mind is how many more shots he would be able to reach comfortably, this would have to help to some extent.

Basically I think the better shape your body is in the better your mind will be able to work. Less energy spent moving around the table just gives you more energy for your brain. Not to mention the self confidence that comes from knowing your in good shape, this alone could be one of the biggest assets.
 
Ask Mika what happened when he started going to the gym regularly and started jogging. Within 1-2 years, he was the world champion !

Being thin doesn't necessarily mean you are in good condition and being fat doesn't necessarily mean your in bad shape. IMHO, if you have a low metabolism, you don't feel great, but if you are exercising regularly, your high metabolism will make you feel better, no matter if you are thin or fat. And with the help of physical training you'll get more energy and for instance will sleep better which helps your mental game as well. That's why I don't think slight overweight in pool is an disadvantage... Admitted, being heavily obese will shorted your reach and might give you problems with stamina in long grueling tournaments.
 
mjantti said:
Ask Mika what happened when he started going to the gym regularly and started jogging. Within 1-2 years, he was the world champion !
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I know Mika very well and have played him many times pver the past seven years or so. By every reasonable measure, Mika was in very good shape before he started jogging and going to the gym. Perhaps, that took him from being in very good shape to excellent shape, but you'll never convince me that's what put him over the top.

Mika has, more often, cited moving to America as the main reaon his game took off. The steady diet of tough competition that he knew he needed was never available to him when he lived in Finland, but when he moved to America, the competition that would push him to his highest level was plentiful.

In terms of his game itself, when his game escalated to the world championship level, the biggest difference I saw, other than a general increase in his competitvieness, was in his use of billiard knowledge in multi-rail position play, defense, and kicking. Didn't surprise me, either, because it coincided with his taking up, and becoming somewhat proficient, in three cushion billiards, and he and I played billiards together on occasion..

The changes Mika made that made him a world champion were a) moving to America, where he could play lots and lots of very tough opponents and b) taking up billiards.
 
sjm said:
... pool is not really about physical stamina...Pool is far more about mental stamina...
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I've been a competetitve bicycle racer w/ a max heart rate of approx 215bmp and gone through times when I played pool at the same time. I don't think that carrying fitness helped my pool game at all. In fact, I couldn't really play for more than 3 hrs at a time, needed to eat! Also, my heart rate would rise too damn high & fast and it would be hard to focus at times.

Nice thing about more physical sports, you can overpower a difficult situation, whereas in pool, you can't.

-piga
 
Excercise isn't gonna improve your pool skills, one area it would improve though is your stamina, when you play 4 matches over the span of a long day that is when excercise could help, but I don't see how it could improve your shotmaking ability, positional play, etc. It would make you feel better which in turn would make you play better but it wouldn't directly improve your on table skills.
 
Hey, sjm ! Yeah, you have a major point there with Mika. The main reason was, as you said, moving to America to have good tournaments and good players. IMHO, the physical training helps your mental game a lot, but it was only a small step in a ladder to success for Mika. Also, if you get determined to exercise, you will find it easier to get determined on other tasks as well, pool for instance. If you don't exercise, you'll get sluggish and sort of numb. I don't think there are many other "overly relaxed" players such as Reyes.

Maybe I'm trying to say, that the effect of exercising is somehow more mental than physical. At least it seems reasonable to me to say that. I haven't done much physical training lately (I used to do a lot of different sports), and I sometimes find myself too lazy and sluggish to concentrate 100% on the game nowadays. I think I had much more energy to invest on pool when I was exercising a lot. I'm not playing "steaming hot" nowadays, I'm just merely making the balls and that's it. Somehow without the inner fire, the game is not so rewarding and satisfying as it used to be... By activating my metabolism, I think I might find that surplus of energy again.

Am I making sense here ? :)

Sjm, send my regards to Mika if you happen to see him! Haven't had a chance to match up with him for a couple of years now...
 
mjantti said:
Hey, sjm ! Yeah, you have a major point there with Mika. The main reason was, as you said, moving to America to have good tournaments and good players. IMHO, the physical training helps your mental game a lot, but it was only a small step in a ladder to success for Mika. Also, if you get determined to exercise, you will find it easier to get determined on other tasks as well, pool for instance. If you don't exercise, you'll get sluggish and sort of numb. I don't think there are many other "overly relaxed" players such as Reyes.

Maybe I'm trying to say, that the effect of exercising is somehow more mental than physical. At least it seems reasonable to me to say that. I haven't done much physical training lately (I used to do a lot of different sports), and I sometimes find myself too lazy and sluggish to concentrate 100% on the game nowadays. I think I had much more energy to invest on pool when I was exercising a lot. I'm not playing "steaming hot" nowadays, I'm just merely making the balls and that's it. Somehow without the inner fire, the game is not so rewarding and satisfying as it used to be... By activating my metabolism, I think I might find that surplus of energy again.

Am I making sense here ? :)

Sjm, send my regards to Mika if you happen to see him! Haven't had a chance to match up with him for a couple of years now...
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Actually, Mikko, you make some excellent observations, and, of course, his conditioning has helped Mika's game. A really good point you made is that exercise helps you focus in all aspects of life, giving you a greater drive. It is quite possible that this helped Mika to set and attain very lofty goals. Still, as we both seem to sense, his move to America was probably the turning point in his life as a pool player.

Of course, Mikko, European pool has gotten stronger and stronger sice he left Finland, and the Eurotour is now a rock-solid tour with an increasingly deep talent pool.

Mika is a very gifted player, and I'll defintiely tell him you said hi next time I see him.
 
sjm said:
Actually, Mikko, you make some excellent observations, and, of course, his conditioning has helped Mika's game. A really good point you made is that exercise helps you focus in all aspects of life, giving you a greater drive. It is quite possible that this helped Mika to set and attain very lofty goals. Still, as we both seem to sense, his move to America was probably the turning point in his life as a pool player.

Of course, Mikko, European pool has gotten stronger and stronger sice he left Finland, and the Eurotour is now a rock-solid tour with an increasingly deep talent pool.

Mika is a very gifted player, and I'll defintiely tell him you said hi next time I see him.
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Have to add that Mika is one of the players who really has that inner fire burning inside of him which drives him forward in pool ! You can see that fire burning through his eyes for instance in the 2001 WPC final within the final few racks... He just wills the balls to go his way to get his hands on the trophy ! His drive and natural talent makes him a world class player.

Sjm, you're right about European pool. It has developed quite a lot and nowadays Eurotour has always ~200 players and achieving success isn't easy there. All previous 9 Eurotours have had different winners and there are only a handful of players who have been able to win Eurotour event more than once: Immonen, Chamat, Storm, Bergendorff, Ortmann, Souquet, Engert and Johnny Archer(!)
Check out: http://www.epbf.com/sportsite/Rankings/AllWinners.htm

Take care.
 
sjm said:
European pool has gotten stronger and stronger sice he left Finland, .
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SJM,
Wow, European pool must be fabulous if the departure of Immonen strengthened their overall level of play (he plays somewhat above the average bar player here in the States I'd say). It reminds me of the Will Rogers quote regarding the exodus of the "Okies" from dustbowl Oklahoma to California during the Depression. He said it would raise the collective intelligence of both states.
 
Williebetmore said:
SJM,
Wow, European pool must be fabulous if the departure of Immonen strengthened their overall level of play (he plays somewhat above the average bar player here in the States I'd say). It reminds me of the Will Rogers quote regarding the exodus of the "Okies" from dustbowl Oklahoma to California during the Depression. He said it would raise the collective intelligence of both states.
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Know where your coming from, Willie. Need to be careful not to give undue credit to Mika here for jump-starting an era of European pool excellence through his departure. I am reminded of how Ross Perot once warned us not to be giving undue credit to (former pres) George Bush. Perot's comment was that "George Bush taking any credit for the fall of the Berlin wall is the equivalent of a rooster taking credit for the sunrise."
 
European pool has developed a lot. For instance, Mika has played several Eurotours and European Championships during the last few years, without any success to Mika's standards. There is always some player who is capable of shutting him out... can't win if you don't get to the table...
 
Wow Mikko I never knew Archer won some Eurotour stops back in the day, but that was before I even picked up a cue. Ortmann seems to like the Eurotour alot I think I counted 13 tour wins for him, I also noticed Bustamante had a couple wins there as well. Does the Eurotour stop anywheres in Finland or Sweden? I'm pretty familiar with the tour but don't recall seeing it stop in Finland ever.
 
Exercise should have been a 4 letter word all along.

Except for that one good type of exercise that is already a 4 letter word. :D
 
sniper said:
Wow Mikko I never knew Archer won some Eurotour stops back in the day, but that was before I even picked up a cue. Ortmann seems to like the Eurotour alot I think I counted 13 tour wins for him, I also noticed Bustamante had a couple wins there as well. Does the Eurotour stop anywheres in Finland or Sweden? I'm pretty familiar with the tour but don't recall seeing it stop in Finland ever.
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Aww, come on ! :) There has been at least 5 Eurotours here in Finland. At 1995 here in Helsinki when Mika took the title, also from 1999 to 2002 in Tampere. In 1999 and 2001 I was also playing. Was outed by Storm 9-4 in L64 and by Feijen 9-4 in L32 in 2001. You can check out old sports calenders for Eurotour results from 1999 at http://www.epbf.com/sportsite/sportsite.htm

In the early 90s there used to be frequent Eurotours in Sweden, but lately there hasn't been any, latest in Norrtälje in 1996. I don't have any idea why not...

Also, there has been a few overseas visitors in Eurotours, Archer and Rafael Martinez for instance. Bustamante has been there a few times, but he has been living in Germany in the 90s.
 
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