In 2013 I said:
Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.
- Thread starter gregcantrall
- Start date
This is short and sweet.
So the top 3 for sure then Stuart....??? (Will do forensic investigation of matches available on YouTube) . Then Judd that was changed to object ball last by first coach.
Players who have made the most 147s
- Ronnie O'Sullivan - 15
- John Higgins - 12
- Stephen Hendry - 11
- Stuart Bingham - 9
- Judd Trump - 8
So the top 3 for sure then Stuart....??? (Will do forensic investigation of matches available on YouTube) . Then Judd that was changed to object ball last by first coach.
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I might have borked the link. Will call the specialist.
No doubt I am in this thread earlier but with 800 posts in it I'm too lazy to dig. I came very close to mastering cue ball control when I was a 60+ hour a week player for years. One thing I learned was aiming anywhere along the shot line. I might be looking at the cue ball, the object ball, the line anywhere from the contact point on the cue ball to the contact point on the object ball, Edit: That isn't really quite right, anywhere along the shot line is what I am trying to say duplicating the next section, the path the cue ball will take, or anywhere along an extended line beyond the object ball contact point.
I found it hard to have a nice freeflowing stroke when the object ball was fairly close to the cue ball, I'll use ten inches as an example. If a choppy stroke worked for the shot then looking at the cue ball or object ball was fine. However, if I needed the cue ball to travel a long ways I found extending the shot line out behind the object ball and picking a spot along this line to shoot at made it easier to let my stroke out despite the fact that neither ball would ever cross my aim point.
One of a few "slights" used long ago to make play easier. Now playing little I have reverted back to my original P&H style on all shots.(Poke and Hope!)
Hu
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My earliest method did have me visualize the line passing through contact points and even continuing to infinity. My best accuracy was achieved with the final look to infinite. Now I still find the points and connect with the line. I then set the shooting platform and trust the mechanics while I observe the intimate interaction between the cue tip and ball. Striving for precision in the strike and velocity through the ball.
I was surprised to learn that Efren was object ball last. I have seen him put the precision cueball on display that earned him the GOAT title.
Found the most Solid Evidence:
Check at the 10:35 mark for a tight view of Luka's eye pattern. Just as I suspected. 
Rising from the dead. The never ending discussion. While I deny being a fanatic I do admit to being passionate. I am passionate for The Truth. Well that should do for the preamble or perhaps Re Ramble in my case.
There are still people of extensive experience and knowledge of the cue sports that swear they see Ronnie looking at the object ball last, Always! My experience is that his eye pattern is so quick and subtle that rarely do I get a look that I can say is definitive. Even on the shots that I "think" I see an uplift of the eyes after the strike, I think, "OK but that's not every shot." Ronnie in interview long ago says it could be either. He even says it's supposed to be object ball last. But. Well I don't remember the exact quote but cueball last does happen at times. So here's a good video that shows lots of looks at his eyes but omits the feathers. So all I can discern is unwavering eyes on most of those. My best clue is if his eyes raise at or shortly after the strike. It would be pointless to link directly to and point out individual shots as I am sure it will be seen differently by some of the OBL crowd..
This video does give lots of looks so enjoy. You make the call.
I trust Stephen Hendry when he included Ronnie in his statement. I just can't imagine an instance of him speaking of it unless he has direct knowledge.
There are still people of extensive experience and knowledge of the cue sports that swear they see Ronnie looking at the object ball last, Always! My experience is that his eye pattern is so quick and subtle that rarely do I get a look that I can say is definitive. Even on the shots that I "think" I see an uplift of the eyes after the strike, I think, "OK but that's not every shot." Ronnie in interview long ago says it could be either. He even says it's supposed to be object ball last. But. Well I don't remember the exact quote but cueball last does happen at times. So here's a good video that shows lots of looks at his eyes but omits the feathers. So all I can discern is unwavering eyes on most of those. My best clue is if his eyes raise at or shortly after the strike. It would be pointless to link directly to and point out individual shots as I am sure it will be seen differently by some of the OBL crowd..
This video does give lots of looks so enjoy. You make the call.
OK start at 11:50 and I see his eyes following the white after striking it.
Will bet that some will see it differently.
Will bet that some will see it differently.
The Ronnie Watch continues. Here's a video posted 7 hours ago. I am guessing it's recent.
At the 5:30 mark begins a good high definition look at Ronnie's eyes.
At the 5:30 mark begins a good high definition look at Ronnie's eyes.
More Ronnie watch high definition can be found here.
Don't forget the finish.
"I find" might be in the last part. Pretty sure "the white" is in there.
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Perhaps what Ronnie found 12 years ago is what makes him the only active GOAT.
He ain't done yet.
Perhaps, just perhaps my path and his are parallel. I didn't do too bad playing object ball last. I do however think I can do better now.
He ain't done yet.
Perhaps, just perhaps my path and his are parallel. I didn't do too bad playing object ball last. I do however think I can do better now.
Here's Ronnie playing Ding 2024. Lots of looks at the eyes of both. With the affection Ronnie has displayed for Ding, I would guess he studied under Ronnie. On the ones that are the clearest Ding shows a pattern that resembles what I see in Ronnie's. (When I can read Ronnie that is.)
This one won't link the same as others. Might get taken down.
O'Sullivan vs Ding
This one won't link the same as others. Might get taken down.
O'Sullivan vs Ding
Just to parry off your conclusion and nothing personal:
If anyone got to a level of perfect pool, they could only claim _proper_ in regard to themselves.
Fran C. makes a strong point of judging speed and that CBL denies the shooter that luxury. Perhaps and maybe as a rhetorical instructional junction but the pool method in general is rife with personalized technique.
Pool stance used to be upright which then settled temporarily into the old straightpool/ghost ball, semi prone, overview stance. That became "THE WAY" to shoot pool - I started that way. It addressed all technical problems with no apparent issues, except for a couple spurious details like <not everything went like you were seeing including the cueball direction and speed>.
Snooker already had solutions for this; most notably the chin on the stick stance which few poolers used. "Cant see anything." "It's too cramped to stroke anything." Real issues that have all been addressed and solved by the majority of the current field of poolers.
So maybe, CBL creates issues in trying to play like Mizerak. I'll never know. Still, the validity of CBL is plain as day to its practitioners. Clearly CBL is unpopular but to imply it is improper wouldn't be proper.
I can only imagine how she came to that conclusion. It's contrary to my experience and contrary to what I observe when comparing the results achieved by players that I know which ball they look at last . Stephen Hendry vs Judd Trump is a logical comparison. As they speak of their different methods. A very fine line in comparing their results but cueball control goes to Stephen.
My personal method has me measuring the distance during the feathers. That's also when the direction and velocity are estimated. Once the calculations are complete I focus on the precise path I want the tip to take through the cueball. The ring finger is in charge of velocity is my interpretation of Barry Stark's teaching. Might not be what he means but it works for me.
I started years before I had knowledge of Stephen Hendry's method. Him speaking of his method being in synchronization with mine is validation. Him speaking of Ronnie doing the same provides further validity. I find it incomprehensible that he would speak of Ronnie being the same without absolute knowledge. Most likely attained through conversations with Ronnie.
Precision is the key. The GOAT s got their status through Precision. My big 5 list gives cueball last a 3-2 advantage. So if object ball last is what gives any individual the best results.....I am not surprised. He'll it gave me my best results for a long time. Easily made more money employing that method. Today however I get the best results focused on the precision of my strike at contact. Not just where I hit the white but the path through it. The path through is what I was getting when looking at object ball at strike. The delicate variation of spin and speed through precision is what I get looking at the white as I strike it. Heck even obl employers say cueball last for delicate shots like a swerve or jump or masse and tree topped(jacked up over a ball will test most players). I prefer to treat all shots with maximum delicacy. My mental target is the back side of the white. The imaginary exit wound so to speak. And velocity is regulated with the Ring finger which I got from Barry Stark. Barry definitely teaches object ball last.
Oh yeah my GOAT list goes like this.
Object ball last, Mosconi and Reyes.
Cueball last, Hoppe, Hendry and O'Sullivan.
Not overwhelming victory but definitely Validation.
Whole E Crap, looks like I have run on long enough for 1 post.
Try It you might like it. If it doesn't work for you don’t sweat it. Efren and Mosconi did okay the other way.
I can see how it works. As a bangginner I had the good fortune to be around players with ungodly placement and to this day I can only get close if all the kinesis is happening. In real words, If I take the time to "Zen" the results in my mind before I even get down to shoot, my ball might land where intended. I chalk it up to real players vs the serious hobbyist. Regardless, if the real players have the unfailing stroke and are so inclined, they may be able to process that nth degree of ball control - IDK.
One of the top players in the Northwest was out of Portland. His name avoids me at this time. He spoke of The Big Eye...... Imagination
You gotta imagine the shot then execute. Boy did he have a good imagination., it was right up there with Cole. So at address I do my imaging and only after I have imagined the complete shot do I endeavor to set the platform and execute the shot. There are times that I get into setting the platform and hit a snag. Stop get back up and re ass S. Once I have my best guess confirmed as possible I proceed to execution with confidence. Sometimes it even works.Edit: 12 hours later I remember the name.
David Rhoades
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Yeah that's what I do. The process takes on its own life as a contiguous performance.