Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

[ShortBusRuss]

Sounds like CJ's touch of inside theory. Generally speaking, if I am using side it's because I missed my shape or my opponent put me in a difficult situation.

No.. not that type of inside. I talked to him about that when I was living in Texas. He uses it to basically deflect the cue ball into applying a slight margin of error on every cut shot, so he either hits it into the "thick portion" of the biggest part of the pocket target, or deflects into a slightly thinner hit that is still within the biggest part of the pocket target.. Plus, he applies a slight "hold up" affect with the touch of inside, which helps with speed control on cut shots... Allowing him to hit slightly firmer, but not have his cue ball get away from him. It's actually a pretty intelligent system, but really only works on slightly bigger pockets, with slower cloth. No one in the modern age can afford to be unnecessarily applying English to the cue ball with modern tight pockets, and slick cloth.

No, I was putting 1-3 tips of inside English fairly regular since I basically did not know WTF I was doing with optimal position paths, orI got slightly too fat to go comfortably around 2-3 rails on more natural position paths,so would apply massive amounts of inside to get the cue ball to my next position zone. It was the single worst thing about my game in my 20s.

 

[gregcantrall]

The German Masters is provided by Matchroom currently. The camera is consistently staying with the eyes through the shot. Milken who has posted a 146 and 147 in the event vs Carter. It appears to me that they use different eye patterns. Very interesting

 

[ChrisinNC]

Excellent summary as to the difference and why a number of players haven discovered that focusing on the cue ball last for the entirety of the stroke (from the start of the backstroke through the completion of the follow through) seems to work better for them.

After 50+ years of shifting my eyes to the target (object ball) just before starting my backstroke or at some point during my backstroke, you can now count me in that small percentage of pool players who are focusing on the cue ball last. After less than one month, I’m very encouraged by my results.

Knowing with certainty where my eyes will remain focused through the entire stroke has allowed me to commit to executing a more consistent and confident stroke.

My experiment with focusing on the cue ball last through the entirety of the stroke is over. It seemed to work amazingly for a few weeks and I may still incorporate it into my game on certain shots, but I could not transfer the success I had doing this on a 7’ table to a 9’ table, even though I was able to recently achieve my all time high 14.1 run on a 7’ Diamond table focusing on the cue ball through the stroke.

This is such a mental game and the bottom line for me is I just have to trust my game and let my eyes go where they will naturally go during the stroke and not think about it, as well as keeping the tempo of my stroke, with a gradual transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke, to allow my eyes the time to go where they need to go - subconsciously.

 

[straightline]

My experiment with focusing on the cue ball last through the entirety of the stroke is over. It seemed to work amazingly for a few weeks and I may still incorporate it into my game on certain shots, but I could not transfer the success I had doing this on a 7’ table to a 9’ table, even though I was able to recently achieve my all time high 14.1 run on a 7’ Diamond table focusing on the cue ball through the stroke.

This is such a mental game and the bottom line for me is I just have to trust my game and let my eyes go where they will naturally go during the stroke and not think about it, as well as keeping the tempo of my stroke, with a gradual transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke, to allow my eyes the time to go where they need to go - subconsciously.

Like anything else, you have to be consistent about it. (and have the time and patience to work it completely) I think it's just an old habits die hard thing.

 

[gregcantrall]

This is such a mental game and the bottom line for me is I just have to trust my game and let my eyes go where they will naturally go during the stroke and not think about it, as well as keeping the tempo of my stroke, with a gradual transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke, to allow my eyes the time to go where they need to go - subconsciously.

Big thumbs up! My experience is similar. As long as I trust my method, I will perform my best.

 

[GoldCrown]

Whatever works is not wrong

 

[straightline]

Whatever works is not wrong

Many conclusions though, can be. My take on object ball last is you learn to stroke with a visual bias. That includes any movement you do while shooting. Eliminating that with cue ball last and shooting only by dead stroke so to speak, is bound to cause conflicts with an ingrained method; the erroneous conclusion being it's too risky and never take your eye off the (object) ball etc...

 

[GoldCrown]

Many conclusions though, can be. My take on object ball last is you learn to stroke with a visual bias. That includes any movement you do while shooting. Eliminating that with cue ball last and shooting only by dead stroke so to speak, is bound to cause conflicts with an ingrained method; the erroneous conclusion being it's too risky and never take your eye off the (object) ball etc...

I worked with Scott Lee (RIP). The pattern we worked on is cue ball cue ball object ball and that’s what I’m solely using.

 

[straightline]

I worked with Scott Lee (RIP). The pattern we worked on is cue ball cue ball object ball and that’s what I’m solely using.

I was just pointing out erroneous conclusions. If you went cue ball object ball close eyes, would you miss?

 

[ChrisinNC]

I worked with Scott Lee (RIP). The pattern we worked on is cue ball cue ball object ball and that’s what I’m solely using.

The type of shots I’m looking at sticking with focusing on the cue ball through the entire stroke are mainly for length of the table shots where the cue ball and object ball are within 18 inches of each other, but the object ball is at least 5-6 feet from the pocket.

For me, it is those shots more than any other in which if your cue tip contact on the cue ball is just slightly off of your planned contact point, the unintended spin on the cue ball will throw the object ball offline enough to miss the shot.

 

[GoldCrown]

I was just pointing out erroneous conclusions. If you went cue ball object ball close eyes, would you miss?

I tried that as an experiment/exercise. If perfectly aligned, perfect mechanics I could hit. A good way to confidently trust the stroke.

 

[7stud]

This is such a mental game and the bottom line for me is I just have to trust my game and let my eyes go where they will naturally go during the stroke and not think about it, as well as keeping the tempo of my stroke, with a gradual transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke, to allow my eyes the time to go where they need to go - subconsciously.

You might not be able to unring the bell. It's too long ago, but I think I was a CB last guy when I played a lot. At some point, I realized that I could also look at the OB last, so I started doing both. The thing is, once you realize which ball you are looking at last, you think about choosing where to look. Good luck.

keeping the tempo of my stroke, with a gradual transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke,

What do you think about to achieve that? I've been doing some stroke drills "between the boxes" as proposed by "Shortstop on Straight Pool" as a better alternative to a bottle, and I think my transition is too jerky. However, when I try to slow down my transition, I don't feel like I get much power or stick speed.

 

[straightline]

I tried that as an experiment/exercise. If perfectly aligned, perfect mechanics I could hit. A good way to confidently trust the stroke.

See that's the point of cue ball last except without the blindness. You get to look at the ball you're actually shooting.

 

[gregcantrall]

See that's the point of cue ball last except without the blindness. You get to look at the ball you're actually shooting.

I find the slightest variation of the strike on the cue ball to be more accurate when watching the strike and monitoring the tip through the ball.
While I try to keep my shots as close to center ball as possible, there are always shots that require a little help getting the cue ball to where it needs to be.

 

[gregcantrall]

Stephen Hendry is asked about cue ball last at around 4:15. It's all pure gold.
He does opine that it's not his expectation that a player can switch. Perhaps he is just being gentle .
The fact that he speaks of Ronnie being cue ball last is huge. I have always kept the reservation that perhaps my observations were biased. The fact that ten or twelve years ago Ronnie said it could be either, indicates that there could have been a transition from object ball last to cue ball last.

 

[gregcantrall]

Update 3-31-21:

Just reviewed this post and noticed another addition that would be appropriate. Well just trying to make it available without wading through the background noise.
Oscar Dominguez when asked by my wife if he looked at cue ball last replied, “why would I look anywhere else?”
Update 10 year anniversary 3-28-23:
Stephen Hendry and Ronnie O'Sullivan have taken snooker play to another level. Stephen Hendry now has a YouTube channel on which he speaks to the fact that he looks at the white last. He also stated that Ronnie does as well.

Ok just reply to bring the tenth anniversary to attention.

 

[garczar]

Ok just reply to bring the tenth anniversary to attention.

WHY is this so important to you? BTW, i've watched Ronnie play a lot and he's not looking at the CB when he sends it. Just seems like you're on some crusade to prove a point that doesn't need the treatment. If you prefer CB-last great but why try to convince the whole world its the best way because its not.

 

[George the Greek]

I had some strange practice routines on a 6x12 snooker table. Besides shooting the cueball straight up/down the spots and placing an object ball on the blue spot to check my stroke I would put the cueball in the corner pocket and object ball on the blue spot. I would practice follow,stun and draw shots and shooting one handed. As far as sighting goes I could make both balls in the far pocket with my eyes closed.

 

[gregcantrall]

WHY is this so important to you? BTW, i've watched Ronnie play a lot and he's not looking at the CB when he sends it. Just seems like you're on some crusade to prove a point that doesn't need the treatment. If you prefer CB-last great but why try to convince the whole world its the best way because its not.

Well, the truth is what I value. So my crusade would be to make the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, available. What any individual makes of it is.... well no concern to me. For some reason the Sour Grapes coming to mind.

1. used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves.

1. 

 

[ChrisinNC]

Stephen Hendry is asked about cue ball last at around 4:15. It's all pure gold.
He does opine that it's not his expectation that a player can switch. Perhaps he is just being gentle .
The fact that he speaks of Ronnie being cue ball last is huge. I have always kept the reservation that perhaps my observations were biased. The fact that ten or twelve years ago Ronnie said it could be either, indicates that there could have been a transition from object ball last to cue ball last.

Through my trials in the last 3–4 months experimenting extensively with focusing on the cue ball last throughout my entire stroke, I’ve come to the the conclusion that for me, yes, there are certain shots in which looking at the cue ball last works better for me, but certainly not for longer shots in which there is considerable distance between the cue ball and object ball. There is no way to pocket balls as well looking at the cue ball last as looking at the object ball during my stroke on these longer shots, unless the cue ball is within a foot or two of the object ball.

I was able to achieve my lifetime 14.1 high run of 110 balls focusing on the cue ball last for my entire stroke, on our 7 foot diamond a few months ago, but that was largely due to almost all shots being relatively short, as opposed to the shots one often has to face on a 9 foot table. I have now implemented shifting my eyes for the final time from the cue ball to the object ball just before the start of my backstroke, and maintaining focus on the object ball through the completion of my stroke.